Wilmer v. Kirkland v. Weil v. Paul Weiss (Bankruptcy) Forum

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

Yes. I personally find restructuring to be a substantially more interesting practice area than basically anything else so I would definitely do that again. Within restructuring, I think it’s Weil and KE then everyone else, and while I haven’t worked at KE, I’ve worked with them and have friends there, and I personally wouldn’t want to work there in that group. I have my complaints about Weil and BFR (workload can be insane, for example), but the training I’ve gotten has been fantastic and the group is doing as well as it’s ever done from a business perspective. I also genuinely like pretty much everyone I work with and I think we have a very good culture.

How many hours have you billed the last few years (and what year/level are you)? Any idea what other associates in the group are billing?

I’m a midlevel, hours have been between 2300-3000 each year I’ve been here. Average for the group has been 2300-2400 the past two years per our yearly townhalls.

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

Yes. I personally find restructuring to be a substantially more interesting practice area than basically anything else so I would definitely do that again. Within restructuring, I think it’s Weil and KE then everyone else, and while I haven’t worked at KE, I’ve worked with them and have friends there, and I personally wouldn’t want to work there in that group. I have my complaints about Weil and BFR (workload can be insane, for example), but the training I’ve gotten has been fantastic and the group is doing as well as it’s ever done from a business perspective. I also genuinely like pretty much everyone I work with and I think we have a very good culture.

How many hours have you billed the last few years (and what year/level are you)? Any idea what other associates in the group are billing?

I’m a midlevel, hours have been between 2300-3000 each year I’ve been here. Average for the group has been 2300-2400 the past two years per our yearly townhalls.

That number is skewed by the group of people checked out/coasting. Think the “average” associate in our group right now is 2500+ with many on track for over 3000

If you come to weil bfr, expect to consistently work nights and wekends

[Anonymous User]

The Wilmer NYC crew is notoriously awful.

What about them in particular -- personalities or their work product?

Personalities. They're great lawyers though.

[jarofsoup]

I thought Weil BFR like will expand greatly during times like these, then just like fire half the practice when they think it is going to be slow for a month or two.

[Anonymous User]

Could anyone speak to any of the other Band 1 Bankruptcy practices? (Akin Gump, DPW, Milbank, Jones Day)

[Anonymous User]

Kirkland and Weil are very comparable in caliber of work you get to do, but it seems like associates at Weil generally have significantly worse hours. Kirkland has had consistently had huge classes in recent years, which has somewhat reduced workload, which has in turn led to lower turnover. I hear the people at Weil are great, but it seems like everyone there is miserably overworked.

[Anonymous User]

I thought Weil BFR like will expand greatly during times like these, then just like fire half the practice when they think it is going to be slow for a month or two.

Not sure why you would think that.

[BrainsyK]

I thought Weil BFR like will expand greatly during times like these, then just like fire half the practice when they think it is going to be slow for a month or two.

Not sure why you would think that.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... #p10368652

Not endorsing the truth of the statement, just pointing you to it.

[Anonymous User]

I thought Weil BFR like will expand greatly during times like these, then just like fire half the practice when they think it is going to be slow for a month or two.

Not sure why you would think that.

http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... #p10368652

Not endorsing the truth of the statement, just pointing you to it.

From the looks of it, this person is not at Weil. I am aware that Weil did conduct layoffs in 2013, but they were hardly stealth layoffs, the firm announced in it a firmwide memo and gave everyone six months of severance. Weil also didn’t conduct layoffs during the recession because of BFR.

Weil also did a fairly poor job of managing the succession of BFR leadership during this time. A number of high profile partners left around then after fighting over leadership of the group and it definitely hurt the business side, the group was dead for a while. Starting in 2015, the group made a number of high profile lateral hires and has been slammed with work ever since. We’re actually fairly understaffed at this point, so take that fwiw.

[Anonymous User]

I would advocate for Paul Weiss. They are heavily involved in a lot of cases on the ad hoc/creditor side. I am sure they have some debtor capacity. They are also prestigious and all that jazz. Kirkland and Weill are intense Debtor practices. I know that the personalities in both are difficult. Also exit options from Debtor shops are pretty poor.

Are you at one of these firms?

[MaxMcMann]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

Yes. I personally find restructuring to be a substantially more interesting practice area than basically anything else so I would definitely do that again. Within restructuring, I think it’s Weil and KE then everyone else, and while I haven’t worked at KE, I’ve worked with them and have friends there, and I personally wouldn’t want to work there in that group. I have my complaints about Weil and BFR (workload can be insane, for example), but the training I’ve gotten has been fantastic and the group is doing as well as it’s ever done from a business perspective. I also genuinely like pretty much everyone I work with and I think we have a very good culture.

I'm a law student thinking along similar lines, but I have one concern: exit options.

Most people won't make partner, and I can't get a clear sense of where BFR associates would go after their time is up. Is it like litigation (minus government options) where basically everyone goes into a boutique with the goal of making partner? Is in-house even in the cards? Is there anything less obvious that I'm not privy to?

[minnbills]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

Yes. I personally find restructuring to be a substantially more interesting practice area than basically anything else so I would definitely do that again. Within restructuring, I think it’s Weil and KE then everyone else, and while I haven’t worked at KE, I’ve worked with them and have friends there, and I personally wouldn’t want to work there in that group. I have my complaints about Weil and BFR (workload can be insane, for example), but the training I’ve gotten has been fantastic and the group is doing as well as it’s ever done from a business perspective. I also genuinely like pretty much everyone I work with and I think we have a very good culture.

I'm a law student thinking along similar lines, but I have one concern: exit options.

Most people won't make partner, and I can't get a clear sense of where BFR associates would go after their time is up. Is it like litigation (minus government options) where basically everyone goes into a boutique with the goal of making partner? Is in-house even in the cards? Is there anything less obvious that I'm not privy to?

I would first note that most of the associates I know are not interested in making partner. Here are the usual exits:

- lateral to a smaller/less prestigious firm (particularly in your home market)
- transition into a related practice area. (e.g. you go from doing workouts to more traditional finance work, or from chapter 11 work to commercial lit)
- in-house at bank or other financial institution that has a presence in the bankruptcy space. (This includes advising on chapter 11 type work or distressed debt stuff for a PE firm or institutional investor, or doing consumer bankruptcy work for a traditional bank like wells fargo).
- U.S. Trustee's office (arm of DOJ responsible for bankruptcy cases. This can be seen as kind of a boring job but its AUSA payscale so it can be a nice living, and a good path to the bench)
- some other government role (typically state AG suing banks etc)
- clerkships (lots of bankruptcy associates clerk then transition into another practice area)
- become a judge (usually state court then maybe BK judge down the line)
(more rare but still happens) - academia

I should mention that every full service firm worth its salt has at least one person who does bankruptcy work. This is because at some point your clients' interests are going to intersect with a bankruptcy case. IMO, one of the best "exits" is to go to a firm smaller/less prestigious than your current firm as their resident bankruptcy expert. My firm (which is a V50 in NYC) had one of these, a counsel, before we built out a bigger practice. This counsel made in the neighborhood of 500k and worked like 40-50 hours just handling the internal referral stuff. This is possible because, like tax, bankruptcy know-how is rare and its not something you can dabble in. You are a true specialist if you work in this field.

Back in my home market (think mid-size city) each larger firm has one of these people. They make 200-250k. I think it's a sweet gig.

[Anonymous User]

Do you recommend Weil's BFR group generally? Would you choose it again if you knew what you know now?

Yes. I personally find restructuring to be a substantially more interesting practice area than basically anything else so I would definitely do that again. Within restructuring, I think it’s Weil and KE then everyone else, and while I haven’t worked at KE, I’ve worked with them and have friends there, and I personally wouldn’t want to work there in that group. I have my complaints about Weil and BFR (workload can be insane, for example), but the training I’ve gotten has been fantastic and the group is doing as well as it’s ever done from a business perspective. I also genuinely like pretty much everyone I work with and I think we have a very good culture.

I'm a law student thinking along similar lines, but I have one concern: exit options.

Most people won't make partner, and I can't get a clear sense of where BFR associates would go after their time is up. Is it like litigation (minus government options) where basically everyone goes into a boutique with the goal of making partner? Is in-house even in the cards? Is there anything less obvious that I'm not privy to?

I would first note that most of the associates I know are not interested in making partner. Here are the usual exits:

- lateral to a smaller/less prestigious firm (particularly in your home market)
- transition into a related practice area. (e.g. you go from doing workouts to more traditional finance work, or from chapter 11 work to commercial lit)
- in-house at bank or other financial institution that has a presence in the bankruptcy space. (This includes advising on chapter 11 type work or distressed debt stuff for a PE firm or institutional investor, or doing consumer bankruptcy work for a traditional bank like wells fargo).
- U.S. Trustee's office (arm of DOJ responsible for bankruptcy cases. This can be seen as kind of a boring job but its AUSA payscale so it can be a nice living, and a good path to the bench)
- some other government role (typically state AG suing banks etc)
- clerkships (lots of bankruptcy associates clerk then transition into another practice area)
- become a judge (usually state court then maybe BK judge down the line)
(more rare but still happens) - academia

I should mention that every full service firm worth its salt has at least one person who does bankruptcy work. This is because at some point your clients' interests are going to intersect with a bankruptcy case. IMO, one of the best "exits" is to go to a firm smaller/less prestigious than your current firm as their resident bankruptcy expert. My firm (which is a V50 in NYC) had one of these, a counsel, before we built out a bigger practice. This counsel made in the neighborhood of 500k and worked like 40-50 hours just handling the internal referral stuff. This is possible because, like tax, bankruptcy know-how is rare and its not something you can dabble in. You are a true specialist if you work in this field.

Back in my home market (think mid-size city) each larger firm has one of these people. They make 200-250k. I think it's a sweet gig.

Would add to this (1) switching to another large firm and (2) doing non-legal work at e.g., a fund. Switching to another large firm is what the vast majority of people who leave end up doing and is pretty easy. Switching to a fund is difficult without creditor side experience and so is pretty hard from debtor-focused places.