Poll: how much more preffttigious is T10 median vs T20 top 1/3 Forum

[Anonymous User]

I think the reason school wins out in the poll is becasue it is tangible.

Outside of law review, cum laude, order of the coif, etc. there is no way to know if someone is a median student, bottom of the class, or close to top of the class. When I look at someone's law firm profile, school is the first thing I look at (in addition to the year of graduation to know what level they're at). For people that have been practicing, I don't particularly care what journal they were on or what latin honors go next to their name.

So, something like NYU or Penn is going to stand out to me over GWU, Order of the Coif. Some firms don't even list latin honors on the website, so I think for those reasons, schools are going to win out over grades once you're in practice. In 2L OCI, it's a different story.

So you care more about a person's UGPA/LSAT than their performance in law school? Like you said, someone with just "NYU" could be bottom of their class. Someone with GWU Coif and Law Review are definitely at least in the top 10%. But you'd still be more impressed with a blank "NYU" than GWU with Coif?

Should be noted that GWU is not a T20. We talking the same if you see someone with Vanderbilt Coif vs blank NYU/Columbia?

[JohnnieSockran]

I think the reason school wins out in the poll is becasue it is tangible.

Outside of law review, cum laude, order of the coif, etc. there is no way to know if someone is a median student, bottom of the class, or close to top of the class. When I look at someone's law firm profile, school is the first thing I look at (in addition to the year of graduation to know what level they're at). For people that have been practicing, I don't particularly care what journal they were on or what latin honors go next to their name.

So, something like NYU or Penn is going to stand out to me over GWU, Order of the Coif. Some firms don't even list latin honors on the website, so I think for those reasons, schools are going to win out over grades once you're in practice. In 2L OCI, it's a different story.

So you care more about a person's UGPA/LSAT than their performance in law school? Like you said, someone with just "NYU" could be bottom of their class. Someone with GWU Coif and Law Review are definitely at least in the top 10%. But you'd still be more impressed with a blank "NYU" than GWU with Coif?

Should be noted that GWU is not a T20. We talking the same if you see someone with Vanderbilt Coif vs blank NYU/Columbia?

Not sure why this is anon, but yes. Not saying it's right or wrong, just saying how I view things. Other opinions may differ. To me, law school isn't a great predictor of performance as a corporate lawyer (my practice). A good school signals to me that you have the brain power to do well on the LSAT, and at that point, for me it's all about the interview and the personality.

And yes, I'm for sure taking blank Columbia over Vandy coif (and I suspect I'm not the only one based on poll results).

[JohnnieSockran]

I think the reason school wins out in the poll is becasue it is tangible.

Outside of law review, cum laude, order of the coif, etc. there is no way to know if someone is a median student, bottom of the class, or close to top of the class. When I look at someone's law firm profile, school is the first thing I look at (in addition to the year of graduation to know what level they're at). For people that have been practicing, I don't particularly care what journal they were on or what latin honors go next to their name.

So, something like NYU or Penn is going to stand out to me over GWU, Order of the Coif. Some firms don't even list latin honors on the website, so I think for those reasons, schools are going to win out over grades once you're in practice. In 2L OCI, it's a different story.

So you care more about a person's UGPA/LSAT than their performance in law school? Like you said, someone with just "NYU" could be bottom of their class. Someone with GWU Coif and Law Review are definitely at least in the top 10%. But you'd still be more impressed with a blank "NYU" than GWU with Coif?

Should be noted that GWU is not a T20. We talking the same if you see someone with Vanderbilt Coif vs blank NYU/Columbia?

I'd also note that calling it "just" NYU is a bit diminishing and inaccurate. Getting into NYU is a feat in itself (and I did not go to NYU or even get accepted).

[Anonymous User]

Columbia and NYU rule the roost in New York. Nobody in New York gives a [expletive] about schools like Virginia, Berkeley or Duke versus Cornell, Georgetown, whatever. The top end of the LSAT band at CLS/NYU extends into the top 1% of all test takers. Every time you see someone from either school with top 25% grades or higher, it means that they were able to go toe to toe with some of the brightest legal minds in the country.

For what it's worth, I have had partners at V10 firms in Northern California tell me that, all else equal, they will take an NYU graduate over a Berkeley graduate every day of the week and twice on Sunday, so I actually think the New York perception holds nationally.

[Anonymous User]

Columbia and NYU rule the roost in New York. Nobody in New York gives a [expletive] about schools like Virginia, Berkeley or Duke versus Cornell, Georgetown, whatever. The top end of the LSAT band at CLS/NYU extends into the top 1% of all test takers. Every time you see someone from either school with top 25% grades or higher, it means that they were able to go toe to toe with some of the brightest legal minds in the country.

For what it's worth, I have had partners at V10 firms in Northern California tell me that, all else equal, they will take an NYU graduate over a Berkeley graduate every day of the week and twice on Sunday, so I actually think the New York perception holds nationally.

This and to the few above posters: I'd agree that on average, a median Columbia/NYU grad is going to be brighter than a median Vandy grad. But when you go outside of average/median range, the calculus is completely different. As much as that's what partners at V10 NorCal firms think, federal judges think otherwise and would gladly take a Vandy Coif any day as clerk over a run-of-the-mill NYU grad. Circuit judges would also take a #1 and #2 from T50 over a run-of-the-mill (average/median) HYS grad. That is, partners want to fill up their biglaw roster of 100+-junior-associate class, whereas judges only get to pick 1-4 per year.

[JohnnieSockran]

Columbia and NYU rule the roost in New York. Nobody in New York gives a [expletive] about schools like Virginia, Berkeley or Duke versus Cornell, Georgetown, whatever. The top end of the LSAT band at CLS/NYU extends into the top 1% of all test takers. Every time you see someone from either school with top 25% grades or higher, it means that they were able to go toe to toe with some of the brightest legal minds in the country.

For what it's worth, I have had partners at V10 firms in Northern California tell me that, all else equal, they will take an NYU graduate over a Berkeley graduate every day of the week and twice on Sunday, so I actually think the New York perception holds nationally.

This and to the few above posters: I'd agree that on average, a median Columbia/NYU grad is going to be brighter than a median Vandy grad. But when you go outside of average/median range, the calculus is completely different. As much as that's what partners at V10 NorCal firms think, federal judges think otherwise and would gladly take a Vandy Coif any day as clerk over a run-of-the-mill NYU grad. Circuit judges would also take a #1 and #2 from T50 over a run-of-the-mill (average/median) HYS grad. That is, partners want to fill up their biglaw roster of 100+-junior-associate class, whereas judges only get to pick 1-4 per year.

I think the focus on law firms ITT is because OP is considering lateraling to another firm. One that favors the t10 schools (as this thread and most firms do).

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, idk, random transactional attorneys may value blank T6 over top 10% T20, but federal judges don't.

Again, if we're really putting a ton of weight on ~LSAT medians~, let it be noted that NYU's LSAT median is 169, whereas WUSTL is at 168. TIL 1 point on the LSAT is more significant than top 10% cumulative law school GPA vs median lmao.

[JohnnieSockran]

Yeah, idk, random transactional attorneys may value blank T6 over top 10% T20, but federal judges don't.

Again, if we're really putting a ton of weight on ~LSAT medians~, let it be noted that NYU's LSAT median is 169, whereas WUSTL is at 168. TIL 1 point on the LSAT is more significant than top 10% cumulative law school GPA vs median lmao.

I assume this is the same anon poster, but it's clear you're in the minority that disagree and are annoyed/offended by the school ranking prestige factor. That's fine, no one is saying one way is right or wrong, but OP asked which one is more prestigious. Clearly, school ranking is more prestigious and helpful in terms of getting a job at a firm than top of class at lower ranked school (hence the mantra on these forums of t13 or bust).

Again, no one is saying this is right or wrong, we're just answering OP's question, and the poll results clearly show the opinion on this. No one is arguing with you about federal clerkships because OP asked about lateraling to law firms, not clerking. I have pretty shit grades, but when I have been looking to lateral in the past, I have gotten a fair amount of interviews nonetheless because of the school name on my resume.

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, idk, random transactional attorneys may value blank T6 over top 10% T20, but federal judges don't.

Again, if we're really putting a ton of weight on ~LSAT medians~, let it be noted that NYU's LSAT median is 169, whereas WUSTL is at 168. TIL 1 point on the LSAT is more significant than top 10% cumulative law school GPA vs median lmao.

The bolded/underlined is not a winning argument:

Sure, medians are close. But look at the 25th percentile stats: NYU=166, WUSTL=161. NYU GPA=3.61, WUSTL=3.18. So, the bottom of the class at NYU is pretty close to median at WUSTL.

[Anonymous User]

This top 10% vs median argument is weird. The OP asked about top 1/3. Judging from my experience during hiring as a WUSTL grad, top 1/3 definitely struggled for firms that were scooping up T10 median people left and right.

But the top 10% kids consistently got screeners throughout the V10. There’s a big difference in employer perception when we’re talking about cum laude vs magna. The poll results are correct.