Top Florida Gig Forum

[Anonymous User]

If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

Once again, this is false. White & Case pays $183k (not NY base) and the raises are compressed. Hogan and Hughes Hubbard didn't increase Miami to 190k. Weil and Morgan Lewis have 16 (75% litigation) and 21 attorneys respectively, so they aren't even relevant in the market since they are satellites. I honestly don't know about Boies since there's no published information but they're an outlier to begin with since they're a litigation boutique and have an entirely different bonus structure.

Finally, the only firm that appears to pay NY market and maintain a remotely sizable presence is McDermott with 51 attorneys. So, unless you're ready to call McDermott the reigning firm in Miami (their office almost exclusively does T&E and Healthcare), then whether a firm pays NY market is not indicative of where they stand in the Miami legal market.

There was a time when W&C was paying 183, but they've matched NY since then. I know several people who work there. Unless every 1 be lyin?

[Anonymous User]

If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

Once again, this is false. White & Case pays $183k (not NY base) and the raises are compressed. Hogan and Hughes Hubbard didn't increase Miami to 190k. Weil and Morgan Lewis have 16 (75% litigation) and 21 attorneys respectively, so they aren't even relevant in the market since they are satellites. I honestly don't know about Boies since there's no published information but they're an outlier to begin with since they're a litigation boutique and have an entirely different bonus structure.

Finally, the only firm that appears to pay NY market and maintain a remotely sizable presence is McDermott with 51 attorneys. So, unless you're ready to call McDermott the reigning firm in Miami (their office almost exclusively does T&E and Healthcare), then whether a firm pays NY market is not indicative of where they stand in the Miami legal market.

You are the one who is incorrect. W&C Miami starts at $190k and follows the NY raise/bonus schedule.

[Anonymous User]

Boies and Hogan, then the rest

I honestly don't think this person is that far off in terms of the quality of work, caliber of attorneys, etc within the Miami market at least

[Anonymous User]

Boies and Hogan, then the rest

I honestly don't think this person is that far off in terms of the quality of work, caliber of attorneys, etc within the Miami market at least

I honestly don't think that this person has any idea what he/she is talking about within the Miami market at least

[Anonymous User]

Boies and Hogan, then the rest

I honestly don't think this person is that far off in terms of the quality of work, caliber of attorneys, etc within the Miami market at least

I honestly don't think that this person has any idea what he/she is talking about within the Miami market at least

I don't have any personal connections who work at either firm, so I am just going off what I've heard. What are the drawbacks from those places, re: W&C or H&K?

[Anonymous User]

If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

Once again, this is false. White & Case pays $183k (not NY base) and the raises are compressed. Hogan and Hughes Hubbard didn't increase Miami to 190k. Weil and Morgan Lewis have 16 (75% litigation) and 21 attorneys respectively, so they aren't even relevant in the market since they are satellites. I honestly don't know about Boies since there's no published information but they're an outlier to begin with since they're a litigation boutique and have an entirely different bonus structure.

Finally, the only firm that appears to pay NY market and maintain a remotely sizable presence is McDermott with 51 attorneys. So, unless you're ready to call McDermott the reigning firm in Miami (their office almost exclusively does T&E and Healthcare), then whether a firm pays NY market is not indicative of where they stand in the Miami legal market.

W&C pays NY and so does HH.

Who cares about "standing" in the Miami legal market when you're an associate? Do they give out standing points? This is a job that you do for money. Some firms pay much more than others. Work for those firms. Don't want for blackbox comp firms, especially when they pay significantly less than multiple other firms. The top gig is working for a firm that pays you a lot more. Not working for some "big" Miami firm that pays you 2/3rds as much. Nobody making NY is looking to leave for GT.

[Anonymous User]

If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

Once again, this is false. White & Case pays $183k (not NY base) and the raises are compressed. Hogan and Hughes Hubbard didn't increase Miami to 190k. Weil and Morgan Lewis have 16 (75% litigation) and 21 attorneys respectively, so they aren't even relevant in the market since they are satellites. I honestly don't know about Boies since there's no published information but they're an outlier to begin with since they're a litigation boutique and have an entirely different bonus structure.

Finally, the only firm that appears to pay NY market and maintain a remotely sizable presence is McDermott with 51 attorneys. So, unless you're ready to call McDermott the reigning firm in Miami (their office almost exclusively does T&E and Healthcare), then whether a firm pays NY market is not indicative of where they stand in the Miami legal market.

W&C pays NY and so does HH.

Who cares about "standing" in the Miami legal market when you're an associate? Do they give out standing points? This is a job that you do for money. Some firms pay much more than others. Work for those firms. Don't want for blackbox comp firms, especially when they pay significantly less than multiple other firms. The top gig is working for a firm that pays you a lot more. Not working for some "big" Miami firm that pays you 2/3rds as much. Nobody making NY is looking to leave for GT.

I agree that "standing" is stupid but there are very real reasons to pick HK or GT or Akerman over a satellite office that pays NY market.

[Anonymous User]

Boies and Hogan, then the rest

I honestly don't think this person is that far off in terms of the quality of work, caliber of attorneys, etc within the Miami market at least

I honestly don't think that this person has any idea what he/she is talking about within the Miami market at least

I don't have any personal connections who work at either firm, so I am just going off what I've heard. What are the drawbacks from those places, re: W&C or H&K?

There are no real drawbacks. I agree with the posters above about standing, but don't agree about "real reasons," at least when coming in as junior associate (or first year).

The "Miami market" doesn't have a "top dog." If we have to break it down, there are, at best, tiers. Those tiers vary based on what you're looking for. If its based on pay, the top tier is obviously the NY scale satellite offices. To be honest, from what I've heard Hogan does NOT pay NY scale, and I was under the impression that neither does Boies; but I may be wrong.

Other than that, there are some firms (still large and high paying) that are known for being more lax that the usual suspects. Those include H&K (regardless of what outsiders say), Gunster, and to a certain extent Bilzin (partner specific). But, those firms are not in the "top tier" pay-wise. I would recommend trying to get a job at the firms that pay the most. That's because of what the above poster said, you're making more $$$ as an associate.

In any case, no one, and I mean no one, really has their pick of the litter when it comes to Miami firms. So I don't really think it makes a difference who anyone thinks is the best firm. And overall, there is just 1 top-tier of firms in Miami, which includes GT, H&K, and the other below-NY-market-paying firms. Just get your foot in somewhere and then try to lateral (after a reasonable amount of time) if you don't like it there.

[Anonymous User]

Having worked in the market, and knowing people currently working there, the big difference between the market firms and Miami-based firms is hourly rates after the 3-4rd year associate level. That’s why most satellite offices don’t really have Miami clients. Miami firms bill around $450-500/hr for senior associates whereas the NY market satellites bill closer to $700+ for the same level associates.

Therefore, it’s probably harder to justify making someone in Miami a partner at the market firms.

As a junior, it makes more sense to make money.

[Anonymous User]

Having worked in the market, and knowing people currently working there, the big difference between the market firms and Miami-based firms is hourly rates after the 3-4rd year associate level. That’s why most satellite offices don’t really have Miami clients. Miami firms bill around $450-500/hr for senior associates whereas the NY market satellites bill closer to $700+ for the same level associates.

Therefore, it’s probably harder to justify making someone in Miami a partner at the market firms.

As a junior, it makes more sense to make money.

I would buy the argument that it is easier to make partner at some of the Miami firms. But you're still talking about something that is not likely to happen, and you're alsos talking about a fundamentally different type of partnership (e.g., more likely to be an income partner, not going to make as much money as a partner at a firm paying NY). Is there a material difference between of counsel at a NY-paying firm and a non-equity partner at GT? Probably not.

Hypothetically, if you stay start as a 1 year and stay until you're a 9th year, you will make hundreds of thousands more at a NY paying firm, guaranteed.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on how Boies is seen in the Miami market?

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on how Boies is seen in the Miami market?

Prestigious with some of the best lawyers in the area (think Stephen N. Zack in Miami and Susan Estrich/Stuart Singer in FLL). Staffed leanly (good for compensation, bad for work hours/pressure). Office generates its own clients/cases. Does not recruit on local campuses because firm's name speaks for itself.

[Anonymous User]

How much is a likely salary/bonus discrepancy between a mid/senior at H&K compared to the NY scale? Are the benefits also much better at W&C/Hogan etc? Also how much better is the work life situation? Will likely be faced with this choice soon

[Anonymous User]

Having worked in the market, and knowing people currently working there, the big difference between the market firms and Miami-based firms is hourly rates after the 3-4rd year associate level. That’s why most satellite offices don’t really have Miami clients. Miami firms bill around $450-500/hr for senior associates whereas the NY market satellites bill closer to $700+ for the same level associates.

Therefore, it’s probably harder to justify making someone in Miami a partner at the market firms.

As a junior, it makes more sense to make money.

I would buy the argument that it is easier to make partner at some of the Miami firms. But you're still talking about something that is not likely to happen, and you're alsos talking about a fundamentally different type of partnership (e.g., more likely to be an income partner, not going to make as much money as a partner at a firm paying NY). Is there a material difference between of counsel at a NY-paying firm and a non-equity partner at GT? Probably not.

Hypothetically, if you stay start as a 1 year and stay until you're a 9th year, you will make hundreds of thousands more at a NY paying firm, guaranteed.

Just wanted to flag the obvious cost-living adjustment. Even if you work at the best paying firms in New York (think Wachtell, 100% bonus match) and earn $350-375k, that is the equivalent of making $180-200k in Miami...

[Anonymous User]

Having worked in the market, and knowing people currently working there, the big difference between the market firms and Miami-based firms is hourly rates after the 3-4rd year associate level. That’s why most satellite offices don’t really have Miami clients. Miami firms bill around $450-500/hr for senior associates whereas the NY market satellites bill closer to $700+ for the same level associates.

Therefore, it’s probably harder to justify making someone in Miami a partner at the market firms.

As a junior, it makes more sense to make money.

I would buy the argument that it is easier to make partner at some of the Miami firms. But you're still talking about something that is not likely to happen, and you're alsos talking about a fundamentally different type of partnership (e.g., more likely to be an income partner, not going to make as much money as a partner at a firm paying NY). Is there a material difference between of counsel at a NY-paying firm and a non-equity partner at GT? Probably not.

Hypothetically, if you stay start as a 1 year and stay until you're a 9th year, you will make hundreds of thousands more at a NY paying firm, guaranteed.

Just wanted to flag the obvious cost-living adjustment. Even if you work at the best paying firms in New York (think Wachtell, 100% bonus match) and earn $350-375k, that is the equivalent of making $180-200k in Miami...

(1) That seems like an exaggeration of COL/taxes; Wachtell comp (which is now $390K I believe) has to be more than even 200 in Miami. Now, if we’re talking about comp adjusted for COL/billable hours, then a Miami probably has an edge (2) There are firms that pay full NY in Miami, which is what I assume the previous posters were referring to.

[Anonymous User]

Having worked in the market, and knowing people currently working there, the big difference between the market firms and Miami-based firms is hourly rates after the 3-4rd year associate level. That’s why most satellite offices don’t really have Miami clients. Miami firms bill around $450-500/hr for senior associates whereas the NY market satellites bill closer to $700+ for the same level associates.

Therefore, it’s probably harder to justify making someone in Miami a partner at the market firms.

As a junior, it makes more sense to make money.

I would buy the argument that it is easier to make partner at some of the Miami firms. But you're still talking about something that is not likely to happen, and you're alsos talking about a fundamentally different type of partnership (e.g., more likely to be an income partner, not going to make as much money as a partner at a firm paying NY). Is there a material difference between of counsel at a NY-paying firm and a non-equity partner at GT? Probably not.

Hypothetically, if you stay start as a 1 year and stay until you're a 9th year, you will make hundreds of thousands more at a NY paying firm, guaranteed.

Just wanted to flag the obvious cost-living adjustment. Even if you work at the best paying firms in New York (think Wachtell, 100% bonus match) and earn $350-375k, that is the equivalent of making $180-200k in Miami...

That's just not true. Miami is cheaper for apartments (probably about 40% cheaper) but isn't much cheaper to eat and drink in. Plus, in Miami, you probably need a car. I would say that the difference between Miami and NYC is maybe 25%.

[2013]

The lack of a state and city income tax covers rent

[Anonymous User]

Having worked in the market, and knowing people currently working there, the big difference between the market firms and Miami-based firms is hourly rates after the 3-4rd year associate level. That’s why most satellite offices don’t really have Miami clients. Miami firms bill around $450-500/hr for senior associates whereas the NY market satellites bill closer to $700+ for the same level associates.

Therefore, it’s probably harder to justify making someone in Miami a partner at the market firms.

As a junior, it makes more sense to make money.

I would buy the argument that it is easier to make partner at some of the Miami firms. But you're still talking about something that is not likely to happen, and you're alsos talking about a fundamentally different type of partnership (e.g., more likely to be an income partner, not going to make as much money as a partner at a firm paying NY). Is there a material difference between of counsel at a NY-paying firm and a non-equity partner at GT? Probably not.

Hypothetically, if you stay start as a 1 year and stay until you're a 9th year, you will make hundreds of thousands more at a NY paying firm, guaranteed.

Just wanted to flag the obvious cost-living adjustment. Even if you work at the best paying firms in New York (think Wachtell, 100% bonus match) and earn $350-375k, that is the equivalent of making $180-200k in Miami...

That's just not true. Miami is cheaper for apartments (probably about 40% cheaper) but isn't much cheaper to eat and drink in. Plus, in Miami, you probably need a car. I would say that the difference between Miami and NYC is maybe 25%.

Price adjustment: https://ibb.co/DtnRwJZ

As you can see, I am not exaggerating the numbers. The only reason to do a NY firm like Wachtell (over a Miami firm like Boies) is for the prestige and/or substance of work. Not for the salary. Don't let the numbers fool you.

[Anonymous User]

Any thoughts on how Boies is seen in the Miami market?

Prestigious with some of the best lawyers in the area (think Stephen N. Zack in Miami and Susan Estrich/Stuart Singer in FLL). Staffed leanly (good for compensation, bad for work hours/pressure). Office generates its own clients/cases. Does not recruit on local campuses because firm's name speaks for itself.

Bump

[Anonymous User]

If the firm doesn't pay NY, it's a TTT. Doesn't matter how big it is. Enough firms pay NY in Miami that those that don't are trash.

This is actually not true at all. In fact, the only firms that I can think of that are paying current NY market are tiny satellite outposts in Miami which don't compete with the bigger players like Greenberg Traurig, White & Case, and Holland & Knight.

W&C pays NY. And GT/HK are TTT. Any firm, anywhere, that does blackbox/non-standardized comp is a TTT.

AFAIK, at least Hogan, W&C, Morgan Lewis, Hughes Hubbard, McDermott, Boies, and Weil pay NY. And the difference between NY and whatever scraps you get from GT is 50-100K a year.

Once again, this is false. White & Case pays $183k (not NY base) and the raises are compressed. Hogan and Hughes Hubbard didn't increase Miami to 190k. Weil and Morgan Lewis have 16 (75% litigation) and 21 attorneys respectively, so they aren't even relevant in the market since they are satellites. I honestly don't know about Boies since there's no published information but they're an outlier to begin with since they're a litigation boutique and have an entirely different bonus structure.

Finally, the only firm that appears to pay NY market and maintain a remotely sizable presence is McDermott with 51 attorneys. So, unless you're ready to call McDermott the reigning firm in Miami (their office almost exclusively does T&E and Healthcare), then whether a firm pays NY market is not indicative of where they stand in the Miami legal market.

You are the one who is incorrect. W&C Miami starts at $190k and follows the NY raise/bonus schedule.

I have heard conflicting information on this. I have heard recent hires who claimed an offer of 183k but have also heard 190k (market) repeatedly from close sources. Was this a recent change?