O'Melveny vs. Sidley (LA) Forum

[Anonymous User]

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[Anonymous User]

Deciding between O'Melveny LA and Sidley LA (both downtown). Set on litigation and hope to work in government in SoCal in some capacity post-biglaw. General thoughts?

If both are for DTLA, then OMM is probably the better call. OMM Lit is well established in SoCal.

[Anonymous User]

I'd probably go with Sidley. Pretty comparable firms, both with good lit practices, but there have been rumors of financial instability at OMM for years. Why take the risk.

[Anonymous User]

They're equal in Chambers California lit rankings

http://www.chambers-associate.com/o-mel ... m-rankings
http://www.chambers-associate.com/sidle ... m-rankings

But with O'Melveny's partner defections, rumored merger with A&O and other weird stuff I'd avoid.

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between O'Melveny LA and Sidley LA (both downtown). Set on litigation and hope to work in government in SoCal in some capacity post-biglaw. General thoughts?

I heard this from my school--

1- SA is trying to fill their century city corp practice. so even if you applied for lit, you might end up getting corp.
2- SA century city is all ex-STB people, so it's a wildly different culture than dtla. very new york white-shoe.
3- SA has no-offered people before.

I personally summered at OMM and they were ok. everyone got offers, so there's that.

[Anonymous User]

Looking at SAs NALP hiring grid: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

In 2017 they had 9 summers, but only 7 new associates are scheduled to start in 2018 (doesn't say if all those are summers or if some are laterals)

In other words, at least 2 of the 9 summers (maybe more) decided not to return.

Similarly for OMM: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

They had 5 summers, but only 4 are returning.

Make what you will with this info. Perhaps neither is a good fit for you.

[Anonymous User]

They're equal in Chambers California lit rankings

http://www.chambers-associate.com/o-mel ... m-rankings
http://www.chambers-associate.com/sidle ... m-rankings

But with O'Melveny's partner defections, rumored merger with A&O and other weird stuff I'd avoid.

I assume you are talking about the entertainment group that went to Latham in 2014?

[Anonymous User]

Looking at SAs NALP hiring grid: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

In 2017 they had 9 summers, but only 7 new associates are scheduled to start in 2018 (doesn't say if all those are summers or if some are laterals)

In other words, at least 2 of the 9 summers (maybe more) decided not to return.

Similarly for OMM: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

They had 5 summers, but only 4 are returning.

Make what you will with this info. Perhaps neither is a good fit for you.

What if someone's clerking?

[Anonymous User]

Looking at SAs NALP hiring grid: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

In 2017 they had 9 summers, but only 7 new associates are scheduled to start in 2018 (doesn't say if all those are summers or if some are laterals)

In other words, at least 2 of the 9 summers (maybe more) decided not to return.

Similarly for OMM: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

They had 5 summers, but only 4 are returning.

Make what you will with this info. Perhaps neither is a good fit for you.

What if someone's clerking?

It shows "post-clerkship" hiring in one of the categories, but it's currently unavailable for the latest class. Like I said, do with this info as you will, it's not really dispositive.

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between O'Melveny LA and Sidley LA (both downtown). Set on litigation and hope to work in government in SoCal in some capacity post-biglaw. General thoughts?

I heard this from my school--

1- SA is trying to fill their century city corp practice. so even if you applied for lit, you might end up getting corp.
2- SA century city is all ex-STB people, so it's a wildly different culture than dtla. very new york white-shoe.
3- SA has no-offered people before.

I personally summered at OMM and they were ok. everyone got offers, so there's that.

I'm not too sure about that. I know for sure that O'Melveny downtown no-offered at least one summer recently and heard strong rumors about another summer being cold-offered.

Sidley's downtown office is definitely lit focused and just looking at NALP, had a 100% offer rate.

I had a friend who just summered at one of OMM's SoCal offices and said that people in his class were actively looking for different opportunities, take that for what you will.

[Anonymous User]

Deciding between O'Melveny LA and Sidley LA (both downtown). Set on litigation and hope to work in government in SoCal in some capacity post-biglaw. General thoughts?

I heard this from my school--

1- SA is trying to fill their century city corp practice. so even if you applied for lit, you might end up getting corp.
2- SA century city is all ex-STB people, so it's a wildly different culture than dtla. very new york white-shoe.
3- SA has no-offered people before.

I personally summered at OMM and they were ok. everyone got offers, so there's that.

I'm not too sure about that. I know for sure that O'Melveny downtown no-offered at least one summer recently and heard strong rumors about another summer being cold-offered.

Sidley's downtown office is definitely lit focused and just looking at NALP, had a 100% offer rate.

I had a friend who just summered at one of OMM's SoCal offices and said that people in his class were actively looking for different opportunities, take that for what you will.

Sidley's 100% offer rate could be based on cold offers, just like OMM's. Everything is a crapshoot, really. OP, you should reach out to someone from your school who recently summered there, they might have better insight.

[Anonymous User]

I'm a lit associate in DTLA. I don't have any experience with O'Melveny, but I think you should lean away from Sidley. They have too many bodies and not enough substantive work. I know a few colleagues (juniors) who couldn't even second chair depos or even attend hearings as observers.

[Anonymous User]

They're equal in Chambers California lit rankings

http://www.chambers-associate.com/o-mel ... m-rankings
http://www.chambers-associate.com/sidle ... m-rankings

But with O'Melveny's partner defections, rumored merger with A&O and other weird stuff I'd avoid.

I assume you are talking about the entertainment group that went to Latham in 2014?

Much more than that. I feel like I see something every few weeks. Three partners left to Sidley earlier this year IIRC. Plus O'Melveny's top litigation partner Daniel Petrocelli is unpleasant, if you believe what people say about him in news reports. Another partner advocated for torture. What if you wind up working with them? If you can go to Sidley Austin I wouldn't take the risk.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel lit associate in LA here. I’d take OMM and I don’t think it’s particularly close if you’re just looking for general lit and not some particular subpractice, and you have no strong impressions from your interviews either way. Being at the hq of one of the biggest and well-known firms in LA should be a general boost for your career. It wasn’t that long ago that Gibson, Latham, and OMM were co-equals as the big 3 full service firms here, and OMM hasn’t slipped that much. It still pays market and the rumors of financial instability are mostly echoes at this point from a few years ago.

If you have a reason for wanting Sidley, by all means pick it as it’s a great, market-paying firm, but if you’re truly undecided and open I think the pick has to be OMM.

[Anonymous User]

O'Melveny is the only firm I know with a whole blog devoted to how much it sucks (written by a former associate no less!)

http://brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-att ... t.com/?m=1

[Anonymous User]

Looking at SAs NALP hiring grid: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

In 2017 they had 9 summers, but only 7 new associates are scheduled to start in 2018 (doesn't say if all those are summers or if some are laterals)

In other words, at least 2 of the 9 summers (maybe more) decided not to return.

Similarly for OMM: https://www.nalpdirectory.com/employer_ ... hCondJSON=

They had 5 summers, but only 4 are returning.

Make what you will with this info. Perhaps neither is a good fit for you.

What if someone's clerking?

Not sure where these numbers came from but OMM definitely did not have a 5 person summer class, so I'd take all of this with a grain of salt. OMM does no-offer on the rare occasion but you have to do something pretty egregious to get no-offered. If you don't plan to be a major slacker or act like a douche then I wouldn't worry about it.

[Anonymous User]

O'Melveny is the only firm I know with a whole blog devoted to how much it sucks (written by a former associate no less!)

http://brian-boyle-omelveny-torture-att ... t.com/?m=1

I first thought that was a rant blog, but it has links for its super-creepy claims (and letters from O'Melveny threatening to sue.) I've seen other creepy stories about O'Melveny. There was an article about an alumnus who started a company selling panties that cover up vaginal odor during oral sex. Not believing my eyes I watched her video, and she talks about the unhappiness in her job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSZUPJOGJSU Or this https://www.lawcrossing.com/article/900 ... -Attorney/

Where there's smoke there's fire.

[QContinuum]

There was an article about an alumnus who started a company selling panties that cover up vaginal odor during oral sex. Not believing my eyes I watched her video, and she talks about the unhappiness in her job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSZUPJOGJSU Or this https://www.lawcrossing.com/article/900 ... -Attorney/

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Eh, not to defend OMM (I have no firsthand knowledge of OMM's culture), but neither of the two examples above strike me as particularly alarming. In the first example, the lawyer worked at OMM for 5 years - a very decent amount of time. (Isn't the typical tenure in biglaw around 3-4 years?) She then left to pursue her long-held entrepreneurship dreams. She didn't go into the panty business out of desperation or a lack of options, she went into it because she'd been passionate about the field since her college days.

In the second example, the lawyer's health deteriorated not because she was at OMM, but because of the stress of divorcing from her deadbeat husband. Note that at the beginning of the divorce case, the lawyer was healthy (even though she'd already been at OMM for years by then). The article doesn't specify exactly how many years she was at OMM, but it says she was making $275k, which suggests she was a 6th year - again, a very respectable tenure length.

[Anonymous User]

There was an article about an alumnus who started a company selling panties that cover up vaginal odor during oral sex. Not believing my eyes I watched her video, and she talks about the unhappiness in her job. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSZUPJOGJSU Or this https://www.lawcrossing.com/article/900 ... -Attorney/

Where there's smoke there's fire.

Eh, not to defend OMM (I have no firsthand knowledge of OMM's culture), but neither of the two examples above strike me as particularly alarming. In the first example, the lawyer worked at OMM for 5 years - a very decent amount of time. (Isn't the typical tenure in biglaw around 3-4 years?) She then left to pursue her long-held entrepreneurship dreams. She didn't go into the panty business out of desperation or a lack of options, she went into it because she'd been passionate about the field since her college days.

In the second example, the lawyer's health deteriorated not because she was at OMM, but because of the stress of divorcing from her deadbeat husband. Note that at the beginning of the divorce case, the lawyer was healthy (even though she'd already been at OMM for years by then). The article doesn't specify exactly how many years she was at OMM, but it says she was making $275k, which suggests she was a 6th year - again, a very respectable tenure length.

Fair, but I'll never unsee https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1nbFOGqxIhM

[Anonymous User]

Anyone got thoughts on O'Melveny vs Irell for someone who's only moderately interested in IP?

[Anonymous User]

Anyone got thoughts on O'Melveny vs Irell for someone who's only moderately interested in IP?

I really like Irell. Outstanding IP group http://www.chambers-associate.com/irell ... m-rankings
Huge PPP. Progressive and diverse firm if that matters to you. Their chairman is African American and he seems cool in articles (never met him personally). https://abovethelaw.com/2018/01/changin ... ce-of-law/

[dasq5511]

I'd take Sidley over OMM without a doubt based on the people I've met from each office and what I've heard about their respective cultures. Both should give you the opportunity to do interesting lit work though Sidley obviously has less name recognition on the West Coast.

[smokeylarue]

Definitely peer firms in LA. Sidley probably has a better brand nationally but since you're set on SoCal for life, not a big deal. Go with your gut, you can't make a wrong choice really.

[surferbro1111]

Anyone got thoughts on O'Melveny vs Irell for someone who's only moderately interested in IP?

I really like Irell. Outstanding IP group http://www.chambers-associate.com/irell ... m-rankings
Huge PPP. Progressive and diverse firm if that matters to you. Their chairman is African American and he seems cool in articles (never met him personally). https://abovethelaw.com/2018/01/changin ... ce-of-law/

Diverse? Irell might very well be the least diverse biglaw firm in the US in terms of URMs and women in the partnership. Less than 10% women and literally only one AA attorney and one Hispanic partner (two attorneys overall...)

[Anonymous User]

Anyone got thoughts on O'Melveny vs Irell for someone who's only moderately interested in IP?

I really like Irell. Outstanding IP group http://www.chambers-associate.com/irell ... m-rankings
Huge PPP. Progressive and diverse firm if that matters to you. Their chairman is African American and he seems cool in articles (never met him personally). https://abovethelaw.com/2018/01/changin ... ce-of-law/

Diverse? Irell might very well be the least diverse biglaw firm in the US in terms of URMs and women in the partnership. Less than 10% women and literally only one AA attorney and one Hispanic partner (two attorneys overall...)

All biglaw firms are bad statistically, but Irell's no worse and Irell's partners voted an African American as their chairman. I think it's fair to call them progressive and diverse.

Irell - 38/46 (83%) partners are white https://nalpdirectory.com/employer_prof ... rell%22%7D

O'Melveny - 184/211 (87%) partners are white https://nalpdirectory.com/employer_prof ... veny%22%7D

Sidley - errrr, NALP doesn't have their firmwide totals and I'm not adding the numbers for its nine offices so Sidley LOS ANGELES - 51/63 (81%) partners are white https://nalpdirectory.com/employer_prof ... dley%22%7D