PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF Forum

(On Campus Interviews, Summer Associate positions, Firm Reviews, Tips, ...)
Forum rules
Anonymous Posting

Anonymous posting is only appropriate when you are revealing sensitive employment related information about a firm, job, etc. You may anonymously respond on topic to these threads. Unacceptable uses include: harassing another user, joking around, testing the feature, or other things that are more appropriate in the lounge.

Failure to follow these rules will get you outed, warned, or banned.

Which firm?

PW
7
17%
Weil
17
41%
Gibson
6
15%
Mofo SF
11
27%
 
Total votes: 41

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:01 pm

Hate to add to another one of these, but having a tough time deciding.

Lucky to have finished the cycle with these offers. I want to go into Corporate, particularly M&A with maybe a focus on distressed M&A/restructuring, which seems like NY's bread and butter. However, I'm originally from the Bay, and I feel like Mofo SF is one of the best options to go back home to as well.

All the firms seem to be on the uptick in terms of PPP and RPL, so future forecast seems good as much as I can predict it. PW had a great year of profits, and Weil's % increases stand out the most. Weil also stands out to me for being elite in the corporate department, while Gibson and PW are elite at litigation but lesser so in what I want to do. Gibson and PW also seem more well-rounded, but I heard some nightmare things about PW's corporate department and know it is still in the earlier stages of growth compared to the other two. Meanwhile, Gibson's M&A chambers band is 5 so thats a lot behind both PW and Weil's.

Culture-wise, I feel like Gibson has clicked the most. I have met with attorneys from PW Weil and Gibson, and I'd rank my perspective so far as Gibson, Weil, and PW. However, Gibson and Weil are very close; Gibson attorneys came off slightly more reserved but collegial, while Weil was a mix of more energetic but also quirkier at times.

At the end of the day, it seems to be Weil vs. Gibson, with PW contending because of their overall strength, and then Mofo SF as the dark horse if I want to choose home. I guess I'm asking whether any of these firms are worth rejecting for Mofo SF, and then which of the other three fit my needs best.

Thank you!

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Aug 18, 2018 9:06 pm

Can't go wrong with any, this is pretty simple.

Corporate M&A + Restructuring? Weil (literally best firm for restructuring practice, although I will warn you it isn't like you're going to be doing both at an early stage). Just corporate? Still Weil, but lesser of a gap.

Litigation? Gibson (free market) vs. PW (not free market)

Want to go back home? Mofo SF

Still can't decide? Literally you will be fine with any of these. Good job.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:03 pm

I would not make my 2L summer associate decision based on an interest in a specific practice unless I 1) knew with 100% certainty I would be doing that thing after graduation (say you worked as an electrical engineer before law school and only came back to do patent stuff), AND 2) had a guarantee I would be placed in that group. This Weil situation is a great example --- there are going to be many more summers that came to do restructuring work (given Weil's reputation) than actual restructuring projects to work on. Say you don't get to do those projects --- are you still happy you're at Weil? Or say you do some restructuring work and you don't like it or dislike the team --- are you still happy you're at Weil?

PW actually seems like a better pick for NY corporate work --- firm has a much stronger overall practice than Weil. One of the best M&A teams in the country now, Scott Barshay is killing it. Neither firm has a particularly strong capital markets practice, but PW's is still better. And a strong M&A franchise does drive cap markets work, so long-term I'd expect them to improve. They're clearly investing in the team. The "Paul, Weiss just does litigation" line hasn't been true for like 5 years. And in terms of just like, brand, PW is a generically better name in BigLaw, so your exit options will probably be better when you (almost certainly) leave the firm in the next 5-7 years.

If other TLSers don't believe me RE PW's corporate practice, here are the M&A league tables for 2017 and Q1 2018. In 2017 (better to look at a full year) PW was ranked 6 overall. Weil was 30th. (To preempt the "but look, Wachtell isn't no. 1 and obviously they have the best M&A practice in the country, this data is useless" --- WLRK only has 250 lawyers. It's never going to do the most deals. Just the biggest. But Weil has 1,100 and PW has 900. So when we're comparing Weil to PW, we're comparing firms with similar-size corporate practices.) https://data.bloomberglp.com/profession ... 1-2018.pdf

Gibson is a great litigation firm but has little/no corporate presence nationally. I would not go there if you're confident you want to be a corporate lawyer.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight --- don't work at any of these firms, not talking up PW because of some personal connection. But I do know a fair amount about M&A, capital markets, and the law firms that are good/not so good at it.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 19, 2018 10:50 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would not make my 2L summer associate decision based on an interest in a specific practice unless I 1) knew with 100% certainty I would be doing that thing after graduation (say you worked as an electrical engineer before law school and only came back to do patent stuff), AND 2) had a guarantee I would be placed in that group. This Weil situation is a great example --- there are going to be many more summers that came to do restructuring work (given Weil's reputation) than actual restructuring projects to work on. Say you don't get to do those projects --- are you still happy you're at Weil? Or say you do some restructuring work and you don't like it or dislike the team --- are you still happy you're at Weil?

PW actually seems like a better pick for NY corporate work --- firm has a much stronger overall practice than Weil. One of the best M&A teams in the country now, Scott Barshay is killing it. Neither firm has a particularly strong capital markets practice, but PW's is still better. And a strong M&A franchise does drive cap markets work, so long-term I'd expect them to improve. They're clearly investing in the team. The "Paul, Weiss just does litigation" line hasn't been true for like 5 years. And in terms of just like, brand, PW is a generically better name in BigLaw, so your exit options will probably be better when you (almost certainly) leave the firm in the next 5-7 years.

If other TLSers don't believe me RE PW's corporate practice, here are the M&A league tables for 2017 and Q1 2018. In 2017 (better to look at a full year) PW was ranked 6 overall. Weil was 30th. (To preempt the "but look, Wachtell isn't no. 1 and obviously they have the best M&A practice in the country, this data is useless" --- WLRK only has 250 lawyers. It's never going to do the most deals. Just the biggest. But Weil has 1,100 and PW has 900. So when we're comparing Weil to PW, we're comparing firms with similar-size corporate practices.) https://data.bloomberglp.com/profession ... 1-2018.pdf

Gibson is a great litigation firm but has little/no corporate presence nationally. I would not go there if you're confident you want to be a corporate lawyer.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight --- don't work at any of these firms, not talking up PW because of some personal connection. But I do know a fair amount about M&A, capital markets, and the law firms that are good/not so good at it.
One guy doesn't make a huge difference and its likely that working with Barshay will be competitive. Weil has historically had the better corporate group but PW has caught up. Its actually pretty funny that youd go so far to say that PW NY has a stronger corporate group than Weil. Theyre both Band 2 in NY. Pick based on fit, offices, leverage or any other reason but not based on each firms corporate reputation.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Aug 19, 2018 11:06 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I would not make my 2L summer associate decision based on an interest in a specific practice unless I 1) knew with 100% certainty I would be doing that thing after graduation (say you worked as an electrical engineer before law school and only came back to do patent stuff), AND 2) had a guarantee I would be placed in that group. This Weil situation is a great example --- there are going to be many more summers that came to do restructuring work (given Weil's reputation) than actual restructuring projects to work on. Say you don't get to do those projects --- are you still happy you're at Weil? Or say you do some restructuring work and you don't like it or dislike the team --- are you still happy you're at Weil?

PW actually seems like a better pick for NY corporate work --- firm has a much stronger overall practice than Weil. One of the best M&A teams in the country now, Scott Barshay is killing it. Neither firm has a particularly strong capital markets practice, but PW's is still better. And a strong M&A franchise does drive cap markets work, so long-term I'd expect them to improve. They're clearly investing in the team. The "Paul, Weiss just does litigation" line hasn't been true for like 5 years. And in terms of just like, brand, PW is a generically better name in BigLaw, so your exit options will probably be better when you (almost certainly) leave the firm in the next 5-7 years.

If other TLSers don't believe me RE PW's corporate practice, here are the M&A league tables for 2017 and Q1 2018. In 2017 (better to look at a full year) PW was ranked 6 overall. Weil was 30th. (To preempt the "but look, Wachtell isn't no. 1 and obviously they have the best M&A practice in the country, this data is useless" --- WLRK only has 250 lawyers. It's never going to do the most deals. Just the biggest. But Weil has 1,100 and PW has 900. So when we're comparing Weil to PW, we're comparing firms with similar-size corporate practices.) https://data.bloomberglp.com/profession ... 1-2018.pdf

Gibson is a great litigation firm but has little/no corporate presence nationally. I would not go there if you're confident you want to be a corporate lawyer.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight --- don't work at any of these firms, not talking up PW because of some personal connection. But I do know a fair amount about M&A, capital markets, and the law firms that are good/not so good at it.
Thanks for sharing the league table. I think the numbers say something about the firm's strength and the trend.

Want to continue reading?

Register now to search topics and post comments!

Absolutely FREE!


Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2018 12:04 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would not make my 2L summer associate decision based on an interest in a specific practice unless I 1) knew with 100% certainty I would be doing that thing after graduation (say you worked as an electrical engineer before law school and only came back to do patent stuff), AND 2) had a guarantee I would be placed in that group. This Weil situation is a great example --- there are going to be many more summers that came to do restructuring work (given Weil's reputation) than actual restructuring projects to work on. Say you don't get to do those projects --- are you still happy you're at Weil? Or say you do some restructuring work and you don't like it or dislike the team --- are you still happy you're at Weil?

PW actually seems like a better pick for NY corporate work --- firm has a much stronger overall practice than Weil. One of the best M&A teams in the country now, Scott Barshay is killing it. Neither firm has a particularly strong capital markets practice, but PW's is still better. And a strong M&A franchise does drive cap markets work, so long-term I'd expect them to improve. They're clearly investing in the team. The "Paul, Weiss just does litigation" line hasn't been true for like 5 years. And in terms of just like, brand, PW is a generically better name in BigLaw, so your exit options will probably be better when you (almost certainly) leave the firm in the next 5-7 years.

If other TLSers don't believe me RE PW's corporate practice, here are the M&A league tables for 2017 and Q1 2018. In 2017 (better to look at a full year) PW was ranked 6 overall. Weil was 30th. (To preempt the "but look, Wachtell isn't no. 1 and obviously they have the best M&A practice in the country, this data is useless" --- WLRK only has 250 lawyers. It's never going to do the most deals. Just the biggest. But Weil has 1,100 and PW has 900. So when we're comparing Weil to PW, we're comparing firms with similar-size corporate practices.) https://data.bloomberglp.com/profession ... 1-2018.pdf

Gibson is a great litigation firm but has little/no corporate presence nationally. I would not go there if you're confident you want to be a corporate lawyer.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight --- don't work at any of these firms, not talking up PW because of some personal connection. But I do know a fair amount about M&A, capital markets, and the law firms that are good/not so good at it.
One guy doesn't make a huge difference and its likely that working with Barshay will be competitive. Weil has historically had the better corporate group but PW has caught up. Its actually pretty funny that youd go so far to say that PW NY has a stronger corporate group than Weil. Theyre both Band 2 in NY. Pick based on fit, offices, leverage or any other reason but not based on each firms corporate reputation.
Barshay leaving Cravath was one of the biggest moves in the legal market since David Boies left. And it worked: PW had 20% marketshare in US M&A last year. That's second only to Skadden, which has 1,800 attorneys ie 2x the number of lawyers.

I mean look OP will be fine at either place. But I would go to PW were I picking between those two.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:33 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I would not make my 2L summer associate decision based on an interest in a specific practice unless I 1) knew with 100% certainty I would be doing that thing after graduation (say you worked as an electrical engineer before law school and only came back to do patent stuff), AND 2) had a guarantee I would be placed in that group. This Weil situation is a great example --- there are going to be many more summers that came to do restructuring work (given Weil's reputation) than actual restructuring projects to work on. Say you don't get to do those projects --- are you still happy you're at Weil? Or say you do some restructuring work and you don't like it or dislike the team --- are you still happy you're at Weil?

PW actually seems like a better pick for NY corporate work --- firm has a much stronger overall practice than Weil. One of the best M&A teams in the country now, Scott Barshay is killing it. Neither firm has a particularly strong capital markets practice, but PW's is still better. And a strong M&A franchise does drive cap markets work, so long-term I'd expect them to improve. They're clearly investing in the team. The "Paul, Weiss just does litigation" line hasn't been true for like 5 years. And in terms of just like, brand, PW is a generically better name in BigLaw, so your exit options will probably be better when you (almost certainly) leave the firm in the next 5-7 years.

If other TLSers don't believe me RE PW's corporate practice, here are the M&A league tables for 2017 and Q1 2018. In 2017 (better to look at a full year) PW was ranked 6 overall. Weil was 30th. (To preempt the "but look, Wachtell isn't no. 1 and obviously they have the best M&A practice in the country, this data is useless" --- WLRK only has 250 lawyers. It's never going to do the most deals. Just the biggest. But Weil has 1,100 and PW has 900. So when we're comparing Weil to PW, we're comparing firms with similar-size corporate practices.) https://data.bloomberglp.com/profession ... 1-2018.pdf

Gibson is a great litigation firm but has little/no corporate presence nationally. I would not go there if you're confident you want to be a corporate lawyer.

FWIW I have no dog in this fight --- don't work at any of these firms, not talking up PW because of some personal connection. But I do know a fair amount about M&A, capital markets, and the law firms that are good/not so good at it.
One guy doesn't make a huge difference and its likely that working with Barshay will be competitive. Weil has historically had the better corporate group but PW has caught up. Its actually pretty funny that youd go so far to say that PW NY has a stronger corporate group than Weil. Theyre both Band 2 in NY. Pick based on fit, offices, leverage or any other reason but not based on each firms corporate reputation.
Barshay leaving Cravath was one of the biggest moves in the legal market since David Boies left. And it worked: PW had 20% marketshare in US M&A last year. That's second only to Skadden, which has 1,800 attorneys ie 2x the number of lawyers.

I mean look OP will be fine at either place. But I would go to PW were I picking between those two.
Yea, Barshay was a huge move for the firm but not really for the associates. Barshay will bring in mega M&A deals for his team (the few other partners he works with and the associates he likes). The vast majority of other PW corporate associates will be working with other partners working on the same old deals they were doing pre-Barshay. Don't kid yourself and think associates with a similar mindset as you wont be dying to work with Barshay. He has a lot of clout at PW. It's not like Apple is gonna hire any random PW corporate partner in their purchase of Google just because Barshay works at PW. Theyre gonna want Barshay.

That's why I said 1 partner isn't gonna make a huge difference in the quality of PW's corporate practice.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2018 11:54 am

I see we've reached the "actually it doesn't matter whether or not the firm is doing deals, the experience is the same" stage

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2018 2:39 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I see we've reached the "actually it doesn't matter whether or not the firm is doing deals, the experience is the same" stage
Deal volume matters, of course, but I don't think the league tables are a good way for rising 2Ls to rank firms. Even putting Wachtell aside, the league tables would suggest choosing JD over the V10; Morgan Lewis over K&E; PW over SullCrom, Simpson, DPW.

Anonymous User
Posts: 428117
Joined: Tue Aug 11, 2009 9:32 am

Re: PW NY vs Weil NY vs Gibson NY vs Mofo SF

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Aug 20, 2018 3:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I see we've reached the "actually it doesn't matter whether or not the firm is doing deals, the experience is the same" stage
Deal volume matters, of course, but I don't think the league tables are a good way for rising 2Ls to rank firms. Even putting Wachtell aside, the league tables would suggest choosing JD over the V10; Morgan Lewis over K&E; PW over SullCrom, Simpson, DPW.
I don't think you're reading it properly. Look at global deals announced by $ volume. Kirkland is #4 for FY2017 - Q1 2018. Morgan Lewis is #104th. Jones Day is a leader by "deal count," which includes $5m mergers and shit. Focus on $.

I wouldn't choose PW corporate over S&C/STB/DPW, given their generically strong brand and strength in capital markets in addition to M&A presence: https://data.bloomberglp.com/profession ... Prelim.pdf

Those firms you mentioned are all top 5 in US equity and bonds by $ issuance. So again, we can get a good idea of a firm's corporate strength through like, looking at actual empirical evidence. Rather than just saying things like "firm X has a great corporate practice because someone told me this on TLS a year ago."

Want to continue reading?

Register for access!

Did I mention it was FREE ?


Post Reply Post Anonymous Reply  

Return to “Legal Employment”