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Which do you think is the best option for someone balancing money and life? In-House seems to pay more, but comes with less stability.

Thoughts?

Anonymous User wrote:Which do you think is the best option for someone balancing money and life? In-House seems to pay more, but comes with less stability.

Thoughts?

Bigfed just seems more fun, though, tbh. Note that I have no experience in either (aside from clerking), but I am interested in the topic.

It’d be cool to hear from somebody who has done both, though that intuitively seems unique to the point of potentially not existing.

I went bigfed over in-house. Some of my coworkers have actually left bigfed for in-house. You generally hit the nail on the head: bigfed offers ultimate job security and work/life balance, but will pay less than in-house. The pension is nice, however, and the added benefit no one really talks about is that you keep your health insurance benefits through retirement and only have to pay your employee contribution.

I’m a 2013 graduate and I make $120k in bigfed. I get a 5% 401k match and have fantastic health insurance. I telework twice a week and work 9-5. I left biglaw for this position. I’ve still got over 200k in loans, too, so I’m getting the added benefit of massive debt forgiveness.

Answer: it depends on pay, but for balance of pay and hours I think in-house is the answer.

I had an offer at a federal agency when I took my in-house gig (from biglaw). Biggest thing from me was the pay. I was going to be earning $50k less in salary and over $100k less if you account for (not guaranteed) year end bonus and RSUs. With the huge paycut from biglaw already, I just wasn't ready to make that kind of leap.

I will say, the 2 day work from home and hours (9:30-5:00) were hard to pass. Now I work in the office the full week and work about 8:30-6 (or 6:30), but very rarely later and almost never on weekends. I think if you are in biglaw, the QOL difference going in-house is already big enough that you will greatly appreciate it. I already sometimes wonder if the paycut was worth it, couldn't imagine making sub 150k all in when you were previously at 300+, would be a tough adjustment.

Anonymous User wrote:I went bigfed over in-house. Some of my coworkers have actually left bigfed for in-house. You generally hit the nail on the head: bigfed offers ultimate job security and work/life balance, but will pay less than in-house. The pension is nice, however, and the added benefit no one really talks about is that you keep your health insurance benefits through retirement and only have to pay your employee contribution.

I’m a 2013 graduate and I make $120k in bigfed. I get a 5% 401k match and have fantastic health insurance. I telework twice a week and work 9-5. I left biglaw for this position. I’ve still got over 200k in loans, too, so I’m getting the added benefit of massive debt forgiveness.

Wow! What market are you in? Did you make a geographic move for the job? This sounds like a dream.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I went bigfed over in-house. Some of my coworkers have actually left bigfed for in-house. You generally hit the nail on the head: bigfed offers ultimate job security and work/life balance, but will pay less than in-house. The pension is nice, however, and the added benefit no one really talks about is that you keep your health insurance benefits through retirement and only have to pay your employee contribution.

I’m a 2013 graduate and I make $120k in bigfed. I get a 5% 401k match and have fantastic health insurance. I telework twice a week and work 9-5. I left biglaw for this position. I’ve still got over 200k in loans, too, so I’m getting the added benefit of massive debt forgiveness.

Wow! What market are you in? Did you make a geographic move for the job? This sounds like a dream.

I'm not the poster in question, but this is basically every federal attorney job. You'll be a GS-14 in 3 years making around 110k, and those are standard federal benefits (telework might be more limited depending on the agency/position).

I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

Which agencies are non-GS?

worklifewhat wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

Which agencies are non-GS?

The financial regulatory agencies are generally non-GS (e.g., FDIC, SEC, OCC, CFPB, FRB,)

Also USAOs (but in the bad way, they get paid less. Also, the hours are better than biglaw but frequently not great. Just to keep in mind for comparing the bigfed options).

lessperfect wrote:

worklifewhat wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

Which agencies are non-GS?

The financial regulatory agencies are generally non-GS (e.g., FDIC, SEC, OCC, CFPB, FRB,)

What benefits do these agencies offer beyond standard benefits? I’m at a non-GS agency and our benefits mirror other title 5 agencies.

Anonymous User wrote:I went bigfed over in-house. Some of my coworkers have actually left bigfed for in-house. You generally hit the nail on the head: bigfed offers ultimate job security and work/life balance, but will pay less than in-house. The pension is nice, however, and the added benefit no one really talks about is that you keep your health insurance benefits through retirement and only have to pay your employee contribution.

I’m a 2013 graduate and I make $120k in bigfed. I get a 5% 401k match and have fantastic health insurance. I telework twice a week and work 9-5. I left biglaw for this position. I’ve still got over 200k in loans, too, so I’m getting the added benefit of massive debt forgiveness.

What do you mean by “ultimate job security?” Surely you can be fired, right? I know nothing about big fed but this stands out to me given how paranoid I am about being fired from my biglaw job.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I went bigfed over in-house. Some of my coworkers have actually left bigfed for in-house. You generally hit the nail on the head: bigfed offers ultimate job security and work/life balance, but will pay less than in-house. The pension is nice, however, and the added benefit no one really talks about is that you keep your health insurance benefits through retirement and only have to pay your employee contribution.

I’m a 2013 graduate and I make $120k in bigfed. I get a 5% 401k match and have fantastic health insurance. I telework twice a week and work 9-5. I left biglaw for this position. I’ve still got over 200k in loans, too, so I’m getting the added benefit of massive debt forgiveness.

What do you mean by “ultimate job security?” Surely you can be fired, right? I know nothing about big fed but this stands out to me given how paranoid I am about being fired from my biglaw job.

You can be fired, yes, but you’ll have either grievance rights (if you’re in a bargaining unit) or MSPB rights to appeal your termination. Basically what this boils down to is that you can only be fired for misconduct. You have to do something pretty bad to actually get removed.

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

I disagree. It seems like all fed gov positions pay significantly less than in-house (or in-house for ex biglaw associates). Can you make over $200 at a fed gov position? I think most in-house positions get you there between salary, bonus and equity grants (if public).

It’s not really fair to compare gs positions with SEC or other independently funded agencies, they have a whole different payscale, require specialized job skills/experience and are hard as hell to get. Of course they are more attractive jobs, but it’s not really apples to apples at that point. If you are competitive at SEC, etc. that’s great, but you probably have better in house options or open to you then, too.

Anonymous User wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

I disagree. It seems like all fed gov positions pay significantly less than in-house (or in-house for ex biglaw associates). Can you make over $200 at a fed gov position? I think most in-house positions get you there between salary, bonus and equity grants (if public).

It looks like the SEC will get you there. Though I agree with the above that jobs at the SEC are harder to get than your average GS-14 or 15 job.

Anonymous User wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

I disagree. It seems like all fed gov positions pay significantly less than in-house (or in-house for ex biglaw associates). Can you make over $200 at a fed gov position? I think most in-house positions get you there between salary, bonus and equity grants (if public).

What do you disagree with? It's pretty common knowledge you can make 180k - 230k at the non GS agencies (the salary range is on the job postings).

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

I disagree. It seems like all fed gov positions pay significantly less than in-house (or in-house for ex biglaw associates). Can you make over $200 at a fed gov position? I think most in-house positions get you there between salary, bonus and equity grants (if public).

What do you disagree with? It's pretty common knowledge you can make 180k - 230k at the non GS agencies (the salary range is on the job postings).

I was disagreeing that fed gov pays as much as in-house. But your point slightly proves me wrong. $230 is pretty close, although most people I know who went in-house from biglaw had comp packages for more than $230 all in if you include target bonus, 401K match and stock grants (the last two typically had 3-4 year vesting schedules though). And if you one day become GC of a Company, your comp will be significantly higher (I know, long stretch there).

I think you’re probably right about most jobs, but if you make it to GC you might also make it to supervisory positions in fedgov, which pay more.

Anyone have any tips on getting into fed positions? I've had interviews and I've made it past the referral stage but nothing has come through. Not coming from big law though (law firm work at all). Also, anyone know people who've gone in house without firm experience. I know of a few--looking for other anecdotes to see what I can use to sell myself.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

I disagree. It seems like all fed gov positions pay significantly less than in-house (or in-house for ex biglaw associates). Can you make over $200 at a fed gov position? I think most in-house positions get you there between salary, bonus and equity grants (if public).

What do you disagree with? It's pretty common knowledge you can make 180k - 230k at the non GS agencies (the salary range is on the job postings).

I was disagreeing that fed gov pays as much as in-house. But your point slightly proves me wrong. $230 is pretty close, although most people I know who went in-house from biglaw had comp packages for more than $230 all in if you include target bonus, 401K match and stock grants (the last two typically had 3-4 year vesting schedules though). And if you one day become GC of a Company, your comp will be significantly higher (I know, long stretch there).

But the federal government also has very valuable benefits that you won’t get in-house, like a pension, much cheaper health insurance, etc. There is also a performance bonus of usually around 5%. I think at an agency like the SEC the total comp starts to get comparable, though probably still a little bit less on average depending on the market.

Anonymous User wrote:

lessperfect wrote:

worklifewhat wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

Which agencies are non-GS?

The financial regulatory agencies are generally non-GS (e.g., FDIC, SEC, OCC, CFPB, FRB,)

What benefits do these agencies offer beyond standard benefits? I’m at a non-GS agency and our benefits mirror other title 5 agencies.

At my non-GS agency we get a supplemental 3% TSP match (in addition to the standard 5%), free vision and dental, and an additional contribution to our health insurance beyond the regular federal one.

Are there any opportunities for a general corporate (not litigation) attorney in Fed Govt? Or are they pretty much looking for litigators only?

lapolicia wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

lessperfect wrote:

worklifewhat wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

Which agencies are non-GS?

The financial regulatory agencies are generally non-GS (e.g., FDIC, SEC, OCC, CFPB, FRB,)

What benefits do these agencies offer beyond standard benefits? I’m at a non-GS agency and our benefits mirror other title 5 agencies.

At my non-GS agency we get a supplemental 3% TSP match (in addition to the standard 5%), free vision and dental, and an additional contribution to our health insurance beyond the regular federal one.

What was your path to landing your position? What region are you in? Was it the only fed job you applied for? Any regrets?

worklifewhat wrote:

lapolicia wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

lessperfect wrote:

worklifewhat wrote:

lapolicia wrote:I might be biased, but I think the best option is doing fed gov at a non-GS agency. You make around the same as an in-house lawyer, maybe a little bit less, but have benefits even beyond the already generous standard federal benefits.

Which agencies are non-GS?

The financial regulatory agencies are generally non-GS (e.g., FDIC, SEC, OCC, CFPB, FRB,)

What benefits do these agencies offer beyond standard benefits? I’m at a non-GS agency and our benefits mirror other title 5 agencies.

At my non-GS agency we get a supplemental 3% TSP match (in addition to the standard 5%), free vision and dental, and an additional contribution to our health insurance beyond the regular federal one.

What was your path to landing your position? What region are you in? Was it the only fed job you applied for? Any regrets?

I'm somewhat unique in that I did the federal government immediately out of law school through an honors program at a financial regulatory agency that was on the GS scale. After about 3 years there, I wanted to move back to my home region (West Coast) and applied to law firm and in-house positions. On a whim, I also applied to one job at a federal financial regulator not on the GS pay scale through USAJOBS even though I thought I had no chance. Amazingly, I got an interview almost immediately and got the job soon after. No regrets here--I get paid around 200k (plus fantastic benefits) while working mostly 9-6 and having a very interesting job. The only downside is that there are few promotional opportunities outside of DC, so unless I get extremely lucky I will have to go in-house (or to a law firm if I can come in at a high enough level) eventually since I don't want to be a line attorney forever and have no desire to move back to DC.