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Looking for some advice on deciding between Goodwin and Willkie Farr. Their cultures both seem very similar, and I am having trouble differentiating between the two. Offers are for the New York office but hope to move to Los Angeles in a few years.

Sorry i cant add much here, but was curious when your CB was for Willkie and when you got the offer- would be much appreciated

+1 for time between callback and decision at Willkie

Lawstudent3692 wrote:Looking for some advice on deciding between Goodwin and Willkie Farr. Their cultures both seem very similar, and I am having trouble differentiating between the two. Offers are for the New York office but hope to move to Los Angeles in a few years.

This is a bit tough. I think Goodwin has a fairly social/fratty culture. Idk what Wilkie is like but it may be a tad more staid based on the couple people I know there. I don't think either are amazing in LA. If your goal is to lateral from NYC to LA at another firm, Wilkie NYC may look a tad more attractive to LA firms than Goodwin NYC. I think on the whole, LA NOT included, Goodwin has better national offices than Wilkie. Not sure if that helps.

You may want to consider what kind of work you want to do. That may help. In a toss-up I think Wilkie probably has a somewhat better rep in NYC than Goodwin and that should be the tie breaker.

Willkie has a much stronger rep in New York than Goodwin but doesn't have an LA office. Goodwin's LA office looks like it is about 30 people, which is not a large office. Have you thought about trying to see if Goodwin will let you split summers? You will probably have a better shot just trying to find a new firm in LA after a few years of experience in NY than in banking on a transfer to NY.

I was at Willkie as a summer and it seemed like people were lateraling to other firms’ LA offices frequently so I don’t think OP should worry about that. Re choosing b/w the two, I think it probably depends what kind of work you want to do and what exit opps there are.

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry i cant add much here, but was curious when your CB was for Willkie and when you got the offer- would be much appreciated

Sorry guys, this is hypothetical. I don't have an offer from Willkie yet but by the way they were talking, it seemed like a sure thing. cb on Friday and they said I would hear within two weeks - I think more likely by the end of this week. The interview went better than Goodwin's and Goodwin is ranked a tad higher so I'm trying to decide based on the assumption that I have it. Just trying to make a decision as soon as possible for them.

Anonymous User wrote:Willkie has a much stronger rep in New York than Goodwin but doesn't have an LA office. Goodwin's LA office looks like it is about 30 people, which is not a large office. Have you thought about trying to see if Goodwin will let you split summers? You will probably have a better shot just trying to find a new firm in LA after a few years of experience in NY than in banking on a transfer to NY.

This is a really good point. Thanks so much. Do you think they have a stronger rep based on word of mouth? All I know is that Goodwin is ranked a little higher on vault.

Anonymous User wrote:I was at Willkie as a summer and it seemed like people were lateraling to other firms’ LA offices frequently so I don’t think OP should worry about that. Re choosing b/w the two, I think it probably depends what kind of work you want to do and what exit opps there are.

Thanks a lot. Looking mainly at corporate and real estate. Good idea to look into clients? Both firms told me most attorneys go to clients after they leave.

oblig.lawl.ref wrote:

Lawstudent3692 wrote:Looking for some advice on deciding between Goodwin and Willkie Farr. Their cultures both seem very similar, and I am having trouble differentiating between the two. Offers are for the New York office but hope to move to Los Angeles in a few years.

This is a bit tough. I think Goodwin has a fairly social/fratty culture. Idk what Wilkie is like but it may be a tad more staid based on the couple people I know there. I don't think either are amazing in LA. If your goal is to lateral from NYC to LA at another firm, Wilkie NYC may look a tad more attractive to LA firms than Goodwin NYC. I think on the whole, LA NOT included, Goodwin has better national offices than Wilkie. Not sure if that helps.

You may want to consider what kind of work you want to do. That may help. In a toss-up I think Wilkie probably has a somewhat better rep in NYC than Goodwin and that should be the tie breaker.

Posted above, but do you know if they have a better rep based on word of mouth? Since Goodwin is ranked higher I would have thought it was the other way.

OP - what type of work do you want to do? That could help as a differentiator here.

Lawstudent3692 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry i cant add much here, but was curious when your CB was for Willkie and when you got the offer- would be much appreciated

Sorry guys, this is hypothetical. I don't have an offer from Willkie yet but by the way they were talking, it seemed like a sure thing. cb on Friday and they said I would hear within two weeks - I think more likely by the end of this week. The interview went better than Goodwin's and Goodwin is ranked a tad higher so I'm trying to decide based on the assumption that I have it. Just trying to make a decision as soon as possible for them.

What did they say that made it seem like it was a sure thing?

Anonymous User wrote:

Lawstudent3692 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Sorry i cant add much here, but was curious when your CB was for Willkie and when you got the offer- would be much appreciated

Sorry guys, this is hypothetical. I don't have an offer from Willkie yet but by the way they were talking, it seemed like a sure thing. cb on Friday and they said I would hear within two weeks - I think more likely by the end of this week. The interview went better than Goodwin's and Goodwin is ranked a tad higher so I'm trying to decide based on the assumption that I have it. Just trying to make a decision as soon as possible for them.

What did they say that made it seem like it was a sure thing?

They asked me if I would take the offer, and kept calling me "all in." Maybe I'm reading too into it, but I want to be prepared to make a decision ASAP if it comes to it so someone else can get an offer!

SFSpartan wrote:OP - what type of work do you want to do? That could help as a differentiator here.

Corporate or real estate!

Lawstudent3692 wrote:

SFSpartan wrote:OP - what type of work do you want to do? That could help as a differentiator here.

Corporate or real estate!

Willkie is probably slightly better to the extent you want to do traditional NYC corporate work (i.e. bank work and cap markets). If you're interested in tech/venture capital, Goodwin is head and shoulders above Willkie. I think Goodwin's real estate team may be slightly better as well (though, being on the West Coast, I'm biased towards Goodwin - largely due to familiarity with their deal teams).

Lawstudent3692 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Willkie has a much stronger rep in New York than Goodwin but doesn't have an LA office. Goodwin's LA office looks like it is about 30 people, which is not a large office. Have you thought about trying to see if Goodwin will let you split summers? You will probably have a better shot just trying to find a new firm in LA after a few years of experience in NY than in banking on a transfer to NY.

This is a really good point. Thanks so much. Do you think they have a stronger rep based on word of mouth? All I know is that Goodwin is ranked a little higher on vault.

Vault is really of limited utility. The better metric is Chambers+AmLaw financial data. In the New York market, the firms are tied in RE, although Goodwin is ranked higher nationally and also was ranked RE group of the year last year by Law360. Willkie is ranked a few bands higher in corporate/M+A (both in New York and nationwide) which is the more traditional "New York" practice. The firms have similar financial metrics, I think Willkie is a few spots higher in AmLaw in PPP/RPL but not so much higher that it really matters for your purposes.

I think you also owe it to yourself to research the firm clients - often the press releases that come out when deals close list the firm that worked on the deal so it is possible to see who the firm's clients are and how big the deals are. Spend some time googling around or looking at their websites to get a sense of each firm's key clients and what industries they are in because that is what will drive your exit options (both in-house or if you want to lateral to another firm).

I think the above poster is right that if you want the more traditional New York corporate work, go to Willkie. If you want more of a tech/VC bent, Goodwin is the better option.

I also would ask pointed questions about practice group selection, of both firms, and would take their answers with a grain of salt. If you’d be equally pleased with corporate and RE that shouldn’t be an issue at either firm, but at least at Willkie RE has been competitive the past few years & more than half the people who have wanted it haven’t gotten it.

Based on your responses above, unless you had a really good feeling about Goodwin, I would go with Wilkie (assuming the offer comes). I personally think Goodwin's a great firm and have worked with them a lot in the tech/VC space but I just think Wilkie's a bigger player in NYC than Goodwin and generally I think you should go with a firm based on their reputation in your city and practice area, not vault. As others have said Chambers is a good reference for that. Also looking into press releases from the firm to see what kind of clients they each work with is good too.

Anonymous User wrote:+1 for time between callback and decision at Willkie

Hi, OP here. Finally got the offer, cb 8/10.

OP here! Thanks everyone so much for the advice. I went into this thinking Willkie would be the one but now I'm actually leaning towards Goodwin. I know I want to get to CA really as soon as possible and am thinking some experience in their Tech and Life Sciences Practice (geared towards start ups) might be really helpful in transferring. I would also be really dissapointed to choose Willkie and not get into RE (even though real estate doesn't have to do with what I want to do long term).

Some people did mention above but does anyone else know how Goodwin vs. Willkie would look to CA firms? Long term would love to work in house at a tech, or entertainment/media company.

Anonymous User wrote:I also would ask pointed questions about practice group selection, of both firms, and would take their answers with a grain of salt. If you’d be equally pleased with corporate and RE that shouldn’t be an issue at either firm, but at least at Willkie RE has been competitive the past few years & more than half the people who have wanted it haven’t gotten it.

This is so, so good to know. Thank you.

Lawstudent3692 wrote:OP here! Thanks everyone so much for the advice. I went into this thinking Willkie would be the one but now I'm actually leaning towards Goodwin. I know I want to get to CA really as soon as possible and am thinking some experience in their Tech and Life Sciences Practice (geared towards start ups) might be really helpful in transferring. I would also be really dissapointed to choose Willkie and not get into RE (even though real estate doesn't have to do with what I want to do long term).

Some people did mention above but does anyone else know how Goodwin vs. Willkie would look to CA firms? Long term would love to work in house at a tech, or entertainment/media company.

This should be an easy choice for you. Take Goodwin and after you receive your full time offer ask to be transferred to the LA or Bay Area offices. I know people who have done this successfully. Save yourself from having to take multiple bar exams, especially since you want to be in CA long-term and would like to work in-house at a tech company.

Lawstudent3692 wrote:OP here! Thanks everyone so much for the advice. I went into this thinking Willkie would be the one but now I'm actually leaning towards Goodwin. I know I want to get to CA really as soon as possible and am thinking some experience in their Tech and Life Sciences Practice (geared towards start ups) might be really helpful in transferring. I would also be really dissapointed to choose Willkie and not get into RE (even though real estate doesn't have to do with what I want to do long term).

Some people did mention above but does anyone else know how Goodwin vs. Willkie would look to CA firms? Long term would love to work in house at a tech, or entertainment/media company.

Willkie isn't going to look bad, but if you're looking for a tech/digital media role, Goodwin will look better, and you'll get more exposure to the type of work firms in Silicon Valley and Silicon Beach are looking for.

Anonymous User wrote:

Lawstudent3692 wrote:OP here! Thanks everyone so much for the advice. I went into this thinking Willkie would be the one but now I'm actually leaning towards Goodwin. I know I want to get to CA really as soon as possible and am thinking some experience in their Tech and Life Sciences Practice (geared towards start ups) might be really helpful in transferring. I would also be really dissapointed to choose Willkie and not get into RE (even though real estate doesn't have to do with what I want to do long term).

Some people did mention above but does anyone else know how Goodwin vs. Willkie would look to CA firms? Long term would love to work in house at a tech, or entertainment/media company.

This should be an easy choice for you. Take Goodwin and after you receive your full time offer ask to be transferred to the LA or Bay Area offices. I know people who have done this successfully. Save yourself from having to take multiple bar exams, especially since you want to be in CA long-term and would like to work in-house at a tech company.

I know someone at Goodwin Boston who asked to switch to one of their California offices as a junior (I think it was LA, may have been Sf or SV) and they said no. He wound up having to lateral to a different firm to make the move. Don’t count on being able to transfer.

Also the tech/life science group is good for NoCal practice but not so much in SoCal, so I don’t think it helps particularly for an LA target.