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I'll be failing character and fitness, and accordingly, looking for Plan B. I need something where a JD will be a distinct advantage and the position should be decent-paying ($40K and up). I prefer positions that are PSLF-eligible as I have an ungodly amount of debt (~$86,000 at this point).

I attended a prestigious LAC with a B.A. in Sociology and Anthropology and a minor in Spanish. Not K-JD. For two years after undergrad, I worked in the nonprofit sector (ed nonprofit and then DV nonprofit). AmeriCorps alum. Ivy grad school. Attended a tier II law school. Graduated in the middle of the pack. Public Defender clinic. Won pro bono honors at graduation though. All internships were with legal aid/NGOs. Fluent in three languages. Currently clerking for two years.

It seems like most compliance positions require several years of practice/WE, which I don't have. I know that contracts administrator and finance type positions (i.e. Goldman Sachs) value a JD, but I have a poor background for that sort of work.

Are the following JD Advantage?
-Immigration Services Officer at USCIS
-Asylum Officer at USCIS
-Board of Immigration Appeals Accredited Representative
-VA Accredited Representative
-Policy Analyst
-Career Judicial Law Clerk
-UN
-Human Resources
-Social worker/case manager
-Court Interpreter
-Court Reporter
-Paralegal
-Legal Secretary
-Foreign Service Officer at Department of State
-Peace Corps
-AmeriCorps
-Fulbright

I'll be failing character and fitness

Are you sure?

Anonymous User wrote:

I'll be failing character and fitness

Are you sure?

Yes. My state requires a Dean's Certification and my Dean is refusing to sign off on my character. He said I can contact him in 2021, and he'll "reconsider" the issue then, but he's not making any promises.

The situation sucks, but I brought it 100% upon myself.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

I'll be failing character and fitness

Are you sure?

Yes. My state requires a Dean's Certification and my Dean is refusing to sign off on my character. He said I can contact him in 2021, and he'll "reconsider" the issue then, but he's not making any promises.

The situation sucks, but I brought it 100% upon myself.

Can he refuse for that long? Is there a written conduct code that allows that?
I don’t know how it works but are you even graduating?
How will you get recommendations for jobs?
All that said I think insurance companies use JD grads for some types of claims, maybe disability.
You may be better off looking for jobs without a JD reqguirement.

Npret wrote:

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

I'll be failing character and fitness

Are you sure?

Yes. My state requires a Dean's Certification and my Dean is refusing to sign off on my character. He said I can contact him in 2021, and he'll "reconsider" the issue then, but he's not making any promises.

The situation sucks, but I brought it 100% upon myself.

Can he refuse for that long? Is there a written conduct code that allows that?
I don’t know how it works but are you even graduating?
How will you get recommendations for jobs?
All that said I think insurance companies use JD grads for some types of claims, maybe disability.
You may be better off looking for jobs without a JD reqguirement.

Whether to certify my character or not is up to the Dean's discretion/whims, unfortunately. Like I said, this situation is 100% my fault.

I graduated with a JD in 2017.

The Judge I am clerking for is pleased with my performance, so I can get a letter of rec from him. I also have letters from other profs, clinic supervisor, and internship supervisors.

I don't really have a background in insurance, unfortunately, coursework-wise or work-wise.

I’m not an expert but I would guess a Dean can’t act on whims. Saying he won’t even consider it for 4 years seems ridiculous. Up to you though, maybe what you did wouldn’t get you through c and F anyway.

You really may need to look for regular office jobs. I’ve always thought JDadvantage is a myth especially in litigation.

I asked the Dean what I could do over the next three years to get in his "good graces" so to speak, and he was unwilling to strike a deal or say what concrete steps I should take to gain his support. :shrugs: I'm not contacting him again.

Npret wrote:I’m not an expert but I would guess a Dean can’t act on whims. Saying he won’t even consider it for 4 years seems ridiculous. Up to you though, maybe what you did wouldn’t get you through c and F anyway.

You really may need to look for regular office jobs. I’ve always thought JDadvantage is a myth especially in litigation.

Unfortunately, nothing in the bar admissions rules of my state says that he can't hold you up indefinitely. It's a sucky situation all around, for sure, but I brought it 100% on myself. I should have been on my best behavior in law school.

What do you mean by "regular office jobs"? Can you be more specific?

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:I asked the Dean what I could do over the next three years to get in his "good graces" so to speak, and he was unwilling to strike a deal or say what concrete steps I should take to gain his support. :shrugs: I'm not contacting him again.

I don’t know what you did but he’s clearing blocking you from practicing law. If you want to give up so, that’s your call.
I wouldn’t expect much in the legal field though. I suppose career services is no help.

Regular office jobs means any job you could get without needing a JD. Maybe Human Resources. Any job you could have had out of college.

Also this spam filter is stupid for someone who has posted here for years to have to do every post. I’m not sure how much more I’ll answer. I don’t have more advice anyway.

I don't think any of the things you've posted are really JD-advantage. You may be able to spin having a JD to your advantage when you apply, but they're not the traditional JD-advantage categories (which I think are pretty narrow). Like legal secretary and paralegal - having a JD might scare off employers because you'll look overqualified and they're not likely to meet your salary requirements. The USCIS stuff is going to be pretty routine front-line paper processors, I'd imagine. A JD might be helpful for the BIA/VA representatives but that will depend on who actually employs you to do that role (it's something you do in legal non-profits). Then the UN and Department of State - it will absolutely depend on what kind of job you're talking about, those are very generic categories. Judicial law clerk of course requires a JD (though not admission) which you should know because you're doing that job now. Court interpreter and court reporter won't care about your JD, they'll care about your language skills or ability to do court reporting (which is actually really hard and requires relatively lengthy/expensive training) (though if you can do either of these you will probably never want for work/will make reasonable money - court reporters can make bank doing depositions etc.). "Policy analyst" is completely generic/broad, and it would depend entirely on the specific position - the JD could help, but might be irrelevant.

I agree with Npret that you should just look for jobs that fit your skills/abilities overall without worrying about whether they fit the "JD advantage" category or not. You have language skills, you have experience with non-profits and direct services, just keep looking in those areas and figure out ways to spin your JD (or at least experience you got along the way) to your advantage for the specific job, rather than trying to find a specific category.

(~$86k isn't actually an ungodly amount of debt at all.)

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:I asked the Dean what I could do over the next three years to get in his "good graces" so to speak, and he was unwilling to strike a deal or say what concrete steps I should take to gain his support. :shrugs: I'm not contacting him again.

This is wild. I've never heard of this. Was it some type of academic dishonesty?

I can't think of what a dean could hold against a student other than that.

You should consult a lawyer that specializes in C&F issues. Even if you did bring this upon yourself, an experienced attorney might be able to get you out of this. Are you clerking for a federal judge? You could stay on as a career clerk, or at the very least until 2021 when/if the Dean signs off on you. Otherwise, compliance jobs would not be a bad alternative in your situation.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

I'll be failing character and fitness

Are you sure?

Yes. My state requires a Dean's Certification and my Dean is refusing to sign off on my character. He said I can contact him in 2021, and he'll "reconsider" the issue then, but he's not making any promises.

The situation sucks, but I brought it 100% upon myself.

Are you sure it's legal? Maybe you should contact a lawyer and ask about it.
You can think about admin positions in non-profit which has lawyers working there, e.g., Lambda Legal, Campaign for the Fair Sentencing of Youth, Human Rights Campaign, etc. From there, try to network with the counsels.

Anonymous User wrote:
(~$86k isn't actually an ungodly amount of debt at all.)

I guess you're right...it does feel like a lot when you're making $44K before taxes.

Anonymous User wrote:

Bodhicaryavatara wrote:I asked the Dean what I could do over the next three years to get in his "good graces" so to speak, and he was unwilling to strike a deal or say what concrete steps I should take to gain his support. :shrugs: I'm not contacting him again.

This is wild. I've never heard of this. Was it some type of academic dishonesty?

I can't think of what a dean could hold against a student other than that.

Not academic dishonesty. It was behavioral. PM me if you want the whole story.

Anonymous User wrote:You should consult a lawyer that specializes in C&F issues. Even if you did bring this upon yourself, an experienced attorney might be able to get you out of this. Are you clerking for a federal judge? You could stay on as a career clerk, or at the very least until 2021 when/if the Dean signs off on you. Otherwise, compliance jobs would not be a bad alternative in your situation.

No state clerkship. In my jurisdiction, clerkships are only 1-2 year stints. What jurisdictions are known to have career clerks?

Would I be a good candidate for higher ed compliance (i.e. Title IX or ADA)? Or healthcare compliance?

Have you looked at whether your JD would give you a pay bump as a teacher in your state?

If you haven't already, do a search on USAJobs for all jobs in the location(s) you want to work in. I sometimes come across jobs I hadn't thought of, and your experience and graduate/law studies might qualify you for some jobs.

Is your judge aware of your situation? If you could line up a few years of clerk jobs, you could re-attack with your dean and still have good experience for legal jobs if your dean changes his mind.

howell wrote:Have you looked at whether your JD would give you a pay bump as a teacher in your state?

If you haven't already, do a search on USAJobs for all jobs in the location(s) you want to work in. I sometimes come across jobs I hadn't thought of, and your experience and graduate/law studies might qualify you for some jobs.

Is your judge aware of your situation? If you could line up a few years of clerk jobs, you could re-attack with your dean and still have good experience for legal jobs if your dean changes his mind.

I have a diagnosed psychiatric illness and K-12 teaching is incredibly stressful, difficult job. So probably not the best idea!

Thanks, I'll definitely look at USA Jobs.

No, my judge does not know; I'm too ashamed to tell him. I plan to apply to an NJ state clerkship after this. NJ has like almost 500 of them across the state.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote: It was behavioral.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote: I have a diagnosed psychiatric illness

Dude, contact a lawyer. (You are arguably being discriminated against for your disability.)

(Also, sorry that everyone is trying to lawyer your problem away rather than answer your actual question, but this is TLS after all.)

Barrred wrote:

Bodhicaryavatara wrote: It was behavioral.

Bodhicaryavatara wrote: I have a diagnosed psychiatric illness

Dude, contact a lawyer. (You are arguably being discriminated against for your disability.)

(Also, sorry that everyone is trying to lawyer your problem away rather than answer your actual question, but this is TLS after all.)

It's not discrimination. The misconduct was serious, and this response is warranted 100%. I deserve it completely.

I’ve met a couple of people who work for the U.S. Probation Office with a j.d., doing pseudo legal work, I know it doesn’t require a law degree but it probably helps a lot. Not sure how much they make but federal benefits are pretty good.

Foreign service seems to hire a lot of people with law degrees who never practiced law or did and then quit. When you go overseas you get a bunch of untaxed allowances that would help you keep your PAYE payments low.

Fed jobs don't care how overqualified you are (at least not as much as civilian jobs) Apply there. You're an Americorp graduate, you might have have special access/pipelines.


Also, depending on your language. Apply directly as a foreign service consular fellow.

RCSOB657 wrote:Fed jobs don't care how overqualified you are (at least not as much as civilian jobs) Apply there. You're an Americorp graduate, you might have have special access/pipelines.


Also, depending on your language. Apply directly as a foreign service consular fellow.

Would Hindi and Spanish be in demand for FSOs?

RecruiterMan wrote:hi blue lotus

Wow, that is plausible.

RCSOB657 wrote:

Would Hindi and Spanish be in demand for FSOs?

It changes a bit from year to year and I think Spanish is not generally that much in demand but still looks good in an application. I hear it’s gotten a lot easier to get in now that the economy is good and so few people want to work in trump’s state department.