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I know a lot of people have kids after 2-3 years of working at a firm, but does anyone have any experience of *starting* as a first-year associate with a small child at home? This would be in lit at a top firm in NYC. Thanks for any advice

Elbble wrote:I know a lot of people have kids after 2-3 years of working at a firm, but does anyone have any experience of *starting* as a first-year associate with a small child at home? This would be in lit at a top firm in NYC. Thanks for any advice

don't see why everything in the other threads wouldn't apply here. if anything its easier bc you have time before you start to get everything in order (child care, pick ups etc)

ruski wrote: don't see why everything in the other threads wouldn't apply here. if anything its easier bc you have time before you start to get everything in order (child care, pick ups etc)

What I'm concerned about is not having the chance to establish myself, so to speak, before having to deal with the stigma of significant non-work responsibilities. I know a lot of people who knew they wanted a kid within a few years, so worked extra hard their first couple of years to establish their reputations. I wonder if coming in with a kid will mark me as less productive right from the start.

On the contrary, you should look at it as an opportunity to set ground-rules for yourself in the firm early on. If you consistently billed 60-hour weeks and responded to emails at all hours of the night for two years before having kids, its possible that the partners you work for may come to expect that will continue notwithstanding any new child-care responsibilities.

I will be starting big law with a two month old. I'll be in my firm's NYC office. My husband (software engineer) is going to work from home and take the role of primary caregiver. To give myself a fighting chance at a satisfactory work-life balance, I'm joining my firm's tax practice. There were other young associates (<3 years) who are new parents that seemed to have a great quality of life.

Can you start big law with a toddler in NYC?

People work 80+ hours every week in Hong Kong and Singapore and Tokyo and Shanghai with toddlers. And it's not a big deal for them, they wake up go to work, and live their lives just like every other person in the city with an office job.

Damn Americans are soft No wonder all the elite American tech companies are seeking overseas talent

I’m a third year in NYC lit and I have a 2 year old and a newborn. So I do not have experience starting big law with a toddler but it’s definitely possible to have small kids and be a junior associate in big law.

Anonymous User wrote:Can you start big law with a toddler in NYC?

People work 80+ hours every week in Hong Kong and Singapore and Tokyo and Shanghai with toddlers. And it's not a big deal for them, they wake up go to work, and live their lives just like every other person in the city with an office job.

Damn Americans are soft No wonder all the elite American tech companies are seeking overseas talent

This is incredibly unhelpful. (also unconvincing.)

nixy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Can you start big law with a toddler in NYC?

People work 80+ hours every week in Hong Kong and Singapore and Tokyo and Shanghai with toddlers. And it's not a big deal for them, they wake up go to work, and live their lives just like every other person in the city with an office job.

Damn Americans are soft No wonder all the elite American tech companies are seeking overseas talent

This is incredibly unhelpful. (also unconvincing.)

Soft.

https://giphy.com/gifs/kobe-bryant-soft ... lxj0GwoDRe

I started biglaw with young children. It's fine and would say that the other threads on this topic apply equally to first years. To be safe though, I'd look for an office with lots of families and where there isn't a strong K-JD vibe.

I see my kids with no phone/work for at least an hour every weekday (often 2-3 hours, but about once a month I cannot come home until they've already gone to sleep) and weekends almost always have plenty of time for family.

Friends/Hobbies, family, exercise, work, and sleep. Pick 3. That's pretty much it. I choose family, work, and sleep. I do set aside about 3 hours every week to hang out with long-time friends, but it helps that we have a standing time that I can plan around.

Anonymous User wrote:I started biglaw with young children. It's fine and would say that the other threads on this topic apply equally to first years. To be safe though, I'd look for an office with lots of families and where there isn't a strong K-JD vibe.

I see my kids with no phone/work for at least an hour every weekday (often 2-3 hours, but about once a month I cannot come home until they've already gone to sleep) and weekends almost always have plenty of time for family.

Friends/Hobbies, family, exercise, work, and sleep. Pick 3. That's pretty much it. I choose family, work, and sleep. I do set aside about 3 hours every week to hang out with long-time friends, but it helps that we have a standing time that I can plan around.

Totally possible to do more. Jeff Bezos does 5 and he has a way more difficult job. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/275968

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I started biglaw with young children. It's fine and would say that the other threads on this topic apply equally to first years. To be safe though, I'd look for an office with lots of families and where there isn't a strong K-JD vibe.

I see my kids with no phone/work for at least an hour every weekday (often 2-3 hours, but about once a month I cannot come home until they've already gone to sleep) and weekends almost always have plenty of time for family.

Friends/Hobbies, family, exercise, work, and sleep. Pick 3. That's pretty much it. I choose family, work, and sleep. I do set aside about 3 hours every week to hang out with long-time friends, but it helps that we have a standing time that I can plan around.

Totally possible to do more. Jeff Bezos does 5 and he has a way more difficult job. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/275968

Ah yes, entreprenuer.com, the whole story

Picking 3 is a simplification, but it's very difficult if not impossible to do all of those things at a meaningful level. Of course, being the richest person alive probably helps

yep Jeff Bezos so easy to emulate just hire the many assistants and cronies he hired with his billions and you too can live like him

Aptitude wrote:

nixy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Can you start big law with a toddler in NYC?

People work 80+ hours every week in Hong Kong and Singapore and Tokyo and Shanghai with toddlers. And it's not a big deal for them, they wake up go to work, and live their lives just like every other person in the city with an office job.

Damn Americans are soft No wonder all the elite American tech companies are seeking overseas talent

This is incredibly unhelpful. (also unconvincing.)

Soft.

https://giphy.com/gifs/kobe-bryant-soft ... lxj0GwoDRe

And another useless comment!

jd20132013 wrote:yep Jeff Bezos so easy to emulate just hire the many assistants and cronies he hired with his billions and you too can live like him

Aren't you, as an attorney also just a cronie, but not for a billionaire.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I started biglaw with young children. It's fine and would say that the other threads on this topic apply equally to first years. To be safe though, I'd look for an office with lots of families and where there isn't a strong K-JD vibe.

I see my kids with no phone/work for at least an hour every weekday (often 2-3 hours, but about once a month I cannot come home until they've already gone to sleep) and weekends almost always have plenty of time for family.

Friends/Hobbies, family, exercise, work, and sleep. Pick 3. That's pretty much it. I choose family, work, and sleep. I do set aside about 3 hours every week to hang out with long-time friends, but it helps that we have a standing time that I can plan around.

Totally possible to do more. Jeff Bezos does 5 and he has a way more difficult job. https://www.entrepreneur.com/article/275968

Ah yes, entreprenuer.com, the whole story

Picking 3 is a simplification, but it's very difficult if not impossible to do all of those things at a meaningful level. Of course, being the richest person alive probably helps

Maybe he's so rich because he's efficient and intelligent. So he can have a family, go to work and do more than 3 things which you think is impossible, but he can apparently do.

I do not get why you’re being so dismissive about this. Raising kids at the same time as working long and intense hours is hard if you want actually to spend time with your kids. If you’re rich and can afford to hire people to clean your house, do your laundry, cook, pick up the kids, drop them off, and do other child care, of course it’s easier. That’s not a sign of moral superiority or efficiency and intelligence, it’s a sign that you have money. We’re all way more efficient when we can hire people to do lots of our tasks for us.

nixy wrote:I do not get why you’re being so dismissive about this. Raising kids at the same time as working long and intense hours is hard if you want actually to spend time with your kids. If you’re rich and can afford to hire people to clean your house, do your laundry, cook, pick up the kids, drop them off, and do other child care, of course it’s easier. That’s not a sign of moral superiority or efficiency and intelligence, it’s a sign that you have money. We’re all way more efficient when we can hire people to do lots of our tasks for us.

Because he's rich? Because you work "intense hours"? Excuses, excuses. Bezos didn't start off a billionaire. Amazon didn't start off with a $767 billion market cap.

Anonymous User wrote:

nixy wrote:I do not get why you’re being so dismissive about this. Raising kids at the same time as working long and intense hours is hard if you want actually to spend time with your kids. If you’re rich and can afford to hire people to clean your house, do your laundry, cook, pick up the kids, drop them off, and do other child care, of course it’s easier. That’s not a sign of moral superiority or efficiency and intelligence, it’s a sign that you have money. We’re all way more efficient when we can hire people to do lots of our tasks for us.

Because he's rich? Because you work "intense hours"? Excuses, excuses. Bezos didn't start off a billionaire. Amazon didn't start off with a $767 billion market cap.

lol, you're not even making any sense.

Lmao, yea, like why not just go become the richest person alive, I mean Bezos did it... jesus, it's not impossible.

That's literally this guy's argument. In any case, no one is saying you can't do everything, just that it's very difficult to do more than three of those at a meaningful level.

Anonymous User wrote:Can you start big law with a toddler in NYC?

People work 80+ hours every week in Hong Kong and Singapore and Tokyo and Shanghai with toddlers. And it's not a big deal for them, they wake up go to work, and live their lives just like every other person in the city with an office job.

Damn Americans are soft No wonder all the elite American tech companies are seeking overseas talent

A lot of people who've personally observed office culture in HK/Tokyo, etc. will tell you that a lot of those 80 hour weeks consists of "presenteeism" where people are physically there but not really being productive. It's not a healthy culture and where kids are involved only enabled by spouses who are expected to essentially act as single parents. This culture is part of the reason why Japanese demographics distribution looks like this:



Some economics have argued this is a big part of the reason why the Japanese economy has been stuck in neutral for 20 years.

To the OP: so much will depend on spousal support, what partners you work for, and the types of clients your firm has. Some can make biglaw with kids work, some won't. The good news is that other options should open up in a few years if it doesn't. Best of luck.

Anonymous User wrote:

nixy wrote:I do not get why you’re being so dismissive about this. Raising kids at the same time as working long and intense hours is hard if you want actually to spend time with your kids. If you’re rich and can afford to hire people to clean your house, do your laundry, cook, pick up the kids, drop them off, and do other child care, of course it’s easier. That’s not a sign of moral superiority or efficiency and intelligence, it’s a sign that you have money. We’re all way more efficient when we can hire people to do lots of our tasks for us.

Because he's rich? Because you work "intense hours"? Excuses, excuses. Bezos didn't start off a billionaire. Amazon didn't start off with a $767 billion market cap.

In to point out that Jeff Bezos has been a billionaire for the entire time his kids have been alive, so as a parent he did start off a billionaire. Also, Amazon debuted on the Fortune 500 in 2002, when Bezos' oldest kid was 2 years old. Of course it's easier to raise kids when you are the billionaire CEO of a Fortune 500 company, as you can hire an army of people to take care of time consuming tasks. It's also easier to focus deeply on things when one has those resources. However, "stop complaining and become the CEO of a Fortune 500 company - other people did it and so can you" really isn't practical or helpful advice for most people. And even if it were, Anon could deliver his/her advice in a less dickish way.