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how did you let yourself get sucked into this craziness

Being a senior associate is the worst. Next worst are junior partner and midlevel associate.

There are two types of people who stay long enough in biglaw to become senior associates:
- Crazy strivers
- Those bogged down by financial obligations, such as a big mortgage and kids, etc.
These are not mutually exclusive.

Don't let yourself become either and you can get out of there before then, as most people manage to do.

I don't understand the seniors who are independently wealthy. Like....why.

LaLiLuLeLo wrote:I don't understand the seniors who are independently wealthy. Like....why.

I don't think I knew any independently wealthy senior associates. I knew some independently wealthy partners though, who get business because of their connections.

Anonymous User wrote:Being a senior associate is the worst. Next worst are junior partner and midlevel associate.

There are two types of people who stay long enough in biglaw to become senior associates:
- Crazy strivers
- Those bogged down by financial obligations, such as a big mortgage and kids, etc.
These are not mutually exclusive.

Don't let yourself become either and you can get out of there before then, as most people manage to do.

I thank God every day that I'm not married and don't have kids

Anonymous User wrote:Being a senior associate is the worst. Next worst are junior partner and midlevel associate.

There are two types of people who stay long enough in biglaw to become senior associates:
- Crazy strivers
- Those bogged down by financial obligations, such as a big mortgage and kids, etc.
These are not mutually exclusive.

Don't let yourself become either and you can get out of there before then, as most people manage to do.

Senior associate on the way out isn't a bad gig. You can usually begin the coasting period a year and a half out, doing middling work and living off the goodwill you've earned as a midlevel until they finally realize what is up.

To be fair, it seems like senior associates have materially better exit opps as in they enter in house higher

Tbh I have loved every senior I have worked with and usually am thinking "how the fuck did they manage to do that." Probably been lucky though.

sublime wrote:Tbh I have loved every senior I have worked with and usually am thinking "how the fuck did they manage to do that." Probably been lucky though.

Oh yeah (this is op) I didn't mean this as an attack on them. I just meant essentially what you said here--don't know how you do it, or if you're going to be able to do it

Anonymous User wrote:

sublime wrote:Tbh I have loved every senior I have worked with and usually am thinking "how the fuck did they manage to do that." Probably been lucky though.

Oh yeah (this is op) I didn't mean this as an attack on them. I just meant essentially what you said here--don't know how you do it, or if you're going to be able to do it

I think this often as well but at the same time I believe it just occurs naturally. I'm not saying everyone who makes it 8-9 years will be a stellar senior associate, but I think most people who work 8-9 years in any field will amass a decent level of expertise.

I have yet to meet one senior who I am envious of or who I think has a good life for big law standards.

One works all-the-fucking-time, has two kids (four to sevenish), and a stay out home wife. He's in the office all the time. He doesn't seem unhappy. Quite the opposite--he seems happy. But I don't know when he sees his family, seeing as he is always in the office (except for the weekends, though he still works then).

The other has no kids, but she is a screamer and depressingly single and takes her unhappiness out on everyone I know.

How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

star fox wrote:How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

I know several biglaw couples who actually relocated when they had kids so that the grandparents could fill in. Idk what ppl without that option do.

Nanny/Au Pairs.

the special counsels are the ones I tend to look at and think "how did you let your life come to this?"

anyriotgirl wrote:the special counsels are the ones I tend to look at and think "how did you let your life come to this?"

why? do they have an unusual amount of responsibility?

jd20132013 wrote:

anyriotgirl wrote:the special counsels are the ones I tend to look at and think "how did you let your life come to this?"

why? do they have an unusual amount of responsibility?

I wondered the same. The Of Counsels I know have it pretty good by big law standards—they make what senior associates make (or more) but without the partner-track/up-and-out pressures that plague senior associates.

I suspect it might vary by firm. Just interested in that poster's take. My firm has special counsels and of counsels, which are clearly in different roles (and also senior counsels)

jd20132013 wrote:I suspect it might vary by firm. Just interested in that poster's take. My firm has special counsels and of counsels, which are clearly in different roles (and also senior counsels)

Of Counsel also seems like a pretty good gig to me. At my firm, however, most of the Of Counsels are unhappy with their role and are vying for partnership.

rpupkin wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:

anyriotgirl wrote:the special counsels are the ones I tend to look at and think "how did you let your life come to this?"

why? do they have an unusual amount of responsibility?

I wondered the same. The Of Counsels I know have it pretty good by big law standards—they make what senior associates make (or more) but without the partner-track/up-and-out pressures that plague senior associates.

Same at my firm. They make $400k+, don't have to worry about business development, etc, and probably don't bill crazy hours - the ones I know are extremely good at delegating. I would honestly prefer that to partner.

AntipodeanPhil wrote:

rpupkin wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:

anyriotgirl wrote:the special counsels are the ones I tend to look at and think "how did you let your life come to this?"

why? do they have an unusual amount of responsibility?

I wondered the same. The Of Counsels I know have it pretty good by big law standards—they make what senior associates make (or more) but without the partner-track/up-and-out pressures that plague senior associates.

Same at my firm. They make $400k+, don't have to worry about business development, etc, and probably don't bill crazy hours - the ones I know are extremely good at delegating. I would honestly prefer that to partner.

my firm has of counsels, which are basically semi-retired partners, and special counsels, a few of whom have carved out a niche and have it semi-good, but more of whom are working insane hours and never going to make partner or are gunning to try to claw their way up to partner

star fox wrote:How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

No grandparents here. Wife goes to work super early and leaves in time to pick up the kiddo. I drop off the kid, get to work pretty late, and work pretty late. It can work.

gregfootball2001 wrote:

star fox wrote:How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

No grandparents here. Wife goes to work super early and leaves in time to pick up the kiddo. I drop off the kid, get to work pretty late, and work pretty late. It can work.

Do you ever get to see each other?

anyriotgirl wrote:

gregfootball2001 wrote:

star fox wrote:How do double working (long hours) couples have kids? Daycare closes eventually. Do the grandparents just do everything?

No grandparents here. Wife goes to work super early and leaves in time to pick up the kiddo. I drop off the kid, get to work pretty late, and work pretty late. It can work.

Do you ever get to see each other?

Most dual biglaw couples don't see one another. There is a person in my dept who sits near me and fights with his wife loudly on phone every. single. night. about who will go send the nanny home, and how neither of them can do that (at 830pm!) because their work will keep them there all night. These fights are sometimes on speakerphone, and his wife sobs a lot during these bouts.

Woah.