Top Law Schools

I've seen more posts on TLS indicating Big Law kinda sucks more than its desirable and if the pay is similar what are the cons of doing it.

I understand starting salary is low but it does go up significantly and bonuses make the pay gap somewhat comparable.

Moreover, exit ops seem to be way better.

Sure, I'm not getting the best value of a JD but thats a sunk cost and I'm sure I could lateral from a bulge bracket or Big3 into some transactional BL group if I really want to down the road.

Thoughts?

Okay yes I did strike out at OCI and kinda giving up on BL

Biglaw does suck but you can't just lateral in after a few years in another job. Is it possible? Yes. Is it likely? Absolutely not.

At this point though, what do you have to lose by going for banking/consulting interviews? Might as well do it...

Just FYI there is no pay gap. banking you make about $50k more year 1 after bonus, and consulting you make more year 1, less year 2, and it alternates back and forth like that.

If you're looking at iBanking, should have tried harder in high school.

IBanking or consulting are no easier than Biglaw. If you struck out at OCI, I'd focus your energies on getting a legal job.

Anonymous User wrote:Just FYI there is no pay gap. banking you make about $50k more year 1 after bonus, and consulting you make more year 1, less year 2, and it alternates back and forth like that.

Sweet use of anon to make a statement that is blatantly untrue. In IB, you may make a small amount more first year, but it's pretty close. However, going forward the pay gap increases fairly aggressively.

mathis1490 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just FYI there is no pay gap. banking you make about $50k more year 1 after bonus, and consulting you make more year 1, less year 2, and it alternates back and forth like that.

Sweet use of anon to make a statement that is blatantly untrue. In IB, you may make a small amount more first year, but it's pretty close. However, going forward the pay gap increases fairly aggressively.

IB you will definitely make more the first year (barring any anomalies), it's not that close. Typical signing bonuses are around 40k-75k (some boutiques go higher), and standard bonus is around 100% salary. Obviously consulting is lower but accelerates a lot better than law (barring Wachtell or some boutiques I guess) if you hang around. I just graduated from an MBA program that's a big IB feeder, where in the world are you getting your info?

kartelite wrote:

mathis1490 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just FYI there is no pay gap. banking you make about $50k more year 1 after bonus, and consulting you make more year 1, less year 2, and it alternates back and forth like that.

Sweet use of anon to make a statement that is blatantly untrue. In IB, you may make a small amount more first year, but it's pretty close. However, going forward the pay gap increases fairly aggressively.

IB you will definitely make more the first year (barring any anomalies), it's not that close. Typical signing bonuses are around 40k-75k (some boutiques go higher), and standard bonus is around 100% salary. Obviously consulting is lower but accelerates a lot better than law (barring Wachtell or some boutiques I guess) if you hang around. I just graduated from an MBA program that's a big IB feeder, where in the world are you getting your info?

Standard bonus for associates is not around 100%, and at the places where it is, it's for top bucket performance. Signing bonuses are a nice bump, but starting salary for IB associates is 125 and 150 at bulges and boutiques, respectively.

I either made up all these numbers or am in the top IB feeder program.

malibustacy wrote:IBanking or consulting are no easier than Biglaw. If you struck out at OCI, I'd focus your energies on getting a legal job.

Agreed entirely. Even lawyers who went to the right undergrad programs and have work experience as an ibanking/consulting analyst face a very steep uphill battle to transitions away from the law. I'll make an educated guess that you don't have the excel skills to back up your desire either. You're at CCN, contact your career services department, start mass-mailing secondary markets, and focus on areas where you have family or work experience ties.

I did banking for 2 years at a top BB firm as an analyst out of college.

Big law is way better.

The way Big LAw folks view in-house jobs (cushy, long term, chill, less but still decent salary) is basically how all the i-bankers view big law. Less hours, decent pay, and less burnout than finance.

edit: I'll add that my hours to salary ratio is significantly higher in big law too.

mathis1490 wrote:

kartelite wrote:

mathis1490 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just FYI there is no pay gap. banking you make about $50k more year 1 after bonus, and consulting you make more year 1, less year 2, and it alternates back and forth like that.

Sweet use of anon to make a statement that is blatantly untrue. In IB, you may make a small amount more first year, but it's pretty close. However, going forward the pay gap increases fairly aggressively.

IB you will definitely make more the first year (barring any anomalies), it's not that close. Typical signing bonuses are around 40k-75k (some boutiques go higher), and standard bonus is around 100% salary. Obviously consulting is lower but accelerates a lot better than law (barring Wachtell or some boutiques I guess) if you hang around. I just graduated from an MBA program that's a big IB feeder, where in the world are you getting your info?

Standard bonus for associates is not around 100%, and at the places where it is, it's for top bucket performance. Signing bonuses are a nice bump, but starting salary for IB associates is 125 and 150 at bulges and boutiques, respectively.

I either made up all these numbers or am in the top IB feeder program.

On the comp front, BigLaw is close to consulting, but not close to IB. At top boutique like Evercore/PJT/Centerview, first-year associates make $250k-$280k all-in (with $150k-160k base). Stub bonus (the bonus you get for your stub year) alone for the last few months of your stub year can be $40-$50k (compared to 5k in BigLaw). Places like Goldman/MS/JPM pay lower, but still higher than BigLaw. There are points in favor of BigLaw compared to IB, but comp is definitely not one of them.

Definitely an uphill battle to switch to IB though due to lack of transferable skill set. IB at top shops/groups is definitely also more intense than most BigLaw positions. Know a few people who made the transition to places like PJT/Evercore/GS/MS/Lazard over the past couple of years:
+one went to Yale UG->3 years of work experience->Yale Law->Wachtell->associate at Lazard
+one went to Harvard Law->2 years at DPW->4 years at Wachtell->associate at Lazard
+one went to Dartmouth->Harvard Law->1 year at S&C->associate at Evercore
+one went to Wharton->NYU Law->3 years at Cravath->associate at Lazard
+one went to Harvard->McKinsey->Harvard Law->Goldman

.

gaddockteeg wrote:I did banking for 2 years at a top BB firm as an analyst out of college.

Big law is way better.

The way Big LAw folks view in-house jobs (cushy, long term, chill, less but still decent salary) is basically how all the i-bankers view big law. Less hours, decent pay, and less burnout than finance.

edit: I'll add that my hours to salary ratio is significantly higher in big law too.

Not fair to compare BigLaw associate to investment banking analysts.

Op here.

For one, I went to a T15 undergrad that routinely sends people to Goldman, Lazard, MS and the like.

Second, how does the job itself compare. After CCN, wouldn't I start as an associate? Is it more enjoyable and fulfilling work?

Anonymous User wrote:

mathis1490 wrote:

kartelite wrote:

mathis1490 wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Just FYI there is no pay gap. banking you make about $50k more year 1 after bonus, and consulting you make more year 1, less year 2, and it alternates back and forth like that.

Sweet use of anon to make a statement that is blatantly untrue. In IB, you may make a small amount more first year, but it's pretty close. However, going forward the pay gap increases fairly aggressively.

IB you will definitely make more the first year (barring any anomalies), it's not that close. Typical signing bonuses are around 40k-75k (some boutiques go higher), and standard bonus is around 100% salary. Obviously consulting is lower but accelerates a lot better than law (barring Wachtell or some boutiques I guess) if you hang around. I just graduated from an MBA program that's a big IB feeder, where in the world are you getting your info?

Standard bonus for associates is not around 100%, and at the places where it is, it's for top bucket performance. Signing bonuses are a nice bump, but starting salary for IB associates is 125 and 150 at bulges and boutiques, respectively.

I either made up all these numbers or am in the top IB feeder program.

On the comp front, BigLaw is close to consulting, but not close to IB. At top boutique like Evercore/PJT/Centerview, first-year associates make $250k-$280k all-in (with $150k-160k base). Stub bonus (the bonus you get for your stub year) alone for the last few months of your stub year can be $40-$50k (compared to 5k in BigLaw). Places like Goldman/MS/JPM pay lower, but still higher than BigLaw. There are points in favor of BigLaw compared to IB, but comp is definitely not one of them.

Definitely an uphill battle to switch to IB though due to lack of transferable skill set. IB at top shops/groups is definitely also more intense than most BigLaw positions. Know a few people who made the transition to places like PJT/Evercore/GS/MS/Lazard over the past couple of years:
+one went to Yale UG->3 years of work experience->Yale Law->Wachtell->associate at Lazard
+one went to Harvard Law->2 years at DPW->4 years at Wachtell->associate at Lazard
+one went to Dartmouth->Harvard Law->1 year at S&C->associate at Evercore
+one went to Wharton->NYU Law->3 years at Cravath->associate at Lazard
+one went to Harvard->McKinsey->Harvard Law->Goldman

Totally agree with everything here. Recruiting for restructuring IB could help smooth over the lack of transferable skills, but I'd definitely recommend trying to take some b-school classes while at law school. OP feel free to DM for more details.

Anonymous User wrote:Op here.

For one, I went to a T15 undergrad that routinely sends people to Goldman, Lazard, MS and the like.

Second, how does the job itself compare. After CCN, wouldn't I start as an associate? Is it more enjoyable and fulfilling work?

You're not getting into Investment Banking with OCI strikeout grades at CCN and no connections. It's time to be realistic here.

malibustacy wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Op here.

For one, I went to a T15 undergrad that routinely sends people to Goldman, Lazard, MS and the like.

Second, how does the job itself compare. After CCN, wouldn't I start as an associate? Is it more enjoyable and fulfilling work?

You're not getting into Investment Banking with OCI strikeout grades at CCN and no connections. It's time to be realistic here.

I missed the part where OP struck out at OCI. If you can't talk your way into a law firm, the likelihood of you making it through even a first round at an IB is slim to none.

Anonymous User wrote:

gaddockteeg wrote:I did banking for 2 years at a top BB firm as an analyst out of college.

Big law is way better.

The way Big LAw folks view in-house jobs (cushy, long term, chill, less but still decent salary) is basically how all the i-bankers view big law. Less hours, decent pay, and less burnout than finance.

edit: I'll add that my hours to salary ratio is significantly higher in big law too.

Not fair to compare BigLaw associate to investment banking analysts.

I'm not. It's not like you don't have a view into associate life as an analyst.

I went from CCN and am currently a consultant at MBB. Happy to answer questions.

But yes, it's very unlikely that you could strike out at OCI and then get into a top consulting shop. The interview process is way more rigorous (though we're not as crazy on the grades emphasis as law firms are).