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Hi guys I am curious as to whether Quinn Emanuel has resumed its summer program this year. I got my offer very late and the letter sounded like it would have a formal program. I know nothing about their program setting or offer rate and I guess (or hope) that if it now has a formal program then I can probably take other firms' situations as benchmark. Can someone who have received offers or know more about it share some insight please? Thanks!

Anonymous User wrote:Hi guys I am curious as to whether Quinn Emanuel has resumed its summer program this year. I got my offer very late and the letter sounded like it would have a formal program. I know nothing about their program setting or offer rate and I guess (or hope) that if it now has a formal program then I can probably take other firms' situations as benchmark. Can someone who have received offers or know more about it share some insight please? Thanks!

So Quinn had six summer associates total last summer. They didn't fully kill their summer program like they claimed. I know they really struggled to hire 3Ls to fill their incoming class (they started offering referral bonuses to incoming 2017 associates this summer because they still desperately needed people to start this fall) so I wouldn't be surprised if they decided to hire more summer associates for next summer. It seems like the experiment to hire only through 3L largely failed. I don't believe anything has been officially announced regarding the revival summer program.

on a tangentially related note, what sort of credentials do you need to be competitive for Quinn as a 3L?

why is Quinn struggling so much to get people? how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

jd20132013 wrote:why is Quinn struggling so much to get people? how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

My best guess is that it's a combination of various factors. Quinn has high standards so many people they would want to hire go clerk (their issues could just be a one or two year lag due to clerkships). Quinn didn't do a good job advertising their signing bonus to 3Ls. Many people develop a loyalty to their firm after drinking the kool-aid and developing relationships all summer. Quinn recruited too late imo since many people don't want to renege on offers.

jd20132013 wrote:why is Quinn struggling so much to get people? how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

Is this true? QE did 3L hiring at my school and was offering a 35k singing bonus to anyone that got an offer and accepted. Hard to believe they can't find people for this

If they weren't struggling to get folks would they offer that sort of bonus

Honestly I think it was a dumb move on Quinn's part, and one that'll possibly ruin the firm.

Anyone they manage to lure away as 3Ls are probably money thirsty droods who 1). tend to be opportunistic jumpers or 2). didn't really like their summer firm (could have been the firm, but could have been their own crappy personalities), or 3). those that were actually cold-offered. They move to a firm where they never had a chance to meet a single lawyer outside their interviews, scope out the practice groups, or get a sense of what the culture is like.

You bring a whole class of these people, none of whom know each other, and who will never get a chance to really know each other, because the work will just pile on then. Then again, if they're the type of people to easily jump ship, maybe they don't really care about being friendly with their co-workers anyway.

There's a reason firms blow tens of thousands on stupid summer events. So everyone gets to know each other.

jd20132013 wrote:If they weren't struggling to get folks would they offer that sort of bonus

Does Wachtell offer the bonuses it does because it is struggling?

Got an email ding for a SA, but it encouraged me to apply as a 3L and they would keep my resume on file. Is this a standard ding that goes to everyone, or did they really mean it?

lawyersHATEhim wrote:Got an email ding for a SA, but it encouraged me to apply as a 3L and they would keep my resume on file. Is this a standard ding that goes to everyone, or did they really mean it?

I didn't get one FWIW. Do you mind sharing approx. stats?

Anonymous User wrote:

lawyersHATEhim wrote:Got an email ding for a SA, but it encouraged me to apply as a 3L and they would keep my resume on file. Is this a standard ding that goes to everyone, or did they really mean it?

I didn't get one FWIW. Do you mind sharing approx. stats?

T20. Top 10%. Secondary Journal. k-jd

At my CCN the people who got hired at Quinn after 3L were by no means standouts academically. Some of them were top 1/3 if that after 1L. I don't think their hiring standards are particularly high-- I think they just have to pay money because of their reputation.

Anonymous User wrote:At my CCN the people who got hired at Quinn after 3L were by no means standouts academically. Some of them were top 1/3 if that after 1L. I don't think their hiring standards are particularly high-- I think they just have to pay money because of their reputation.

Thanks for the info!

Anonymous User wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:If they weren't struggling to get folks would they offer that sort of bonus

Does Wachtell offer the bonuses it does because it is struggling?

Since those aren't recruitment bonuses I'm not sure what their relevance is to the discussion about Quinn's recruitment bonuses. At any rate, I suspect it's because they'd struggle to keep folks otherwise!

Regardless, my impression is that you still have to at least have 2L SA to succeed with their 3L hiring. Am I wrong? Has anybody without 2L SA had success at 3L OCI?

jd20132013 wrote:If they weren't struggling to get folks would they offer that sort of bonus

To hire exclusively 3Ls, you have to offer some sort of incentive. You can debate whether hiring (almost) exclusively 3Ls is a good idea or not, but making that decision and offering a bonus does not mean they are "struggling."

Anonymous User wrote:Regardless, my impression is that you still have to at least have 2L SA to succeed with their 3L hiring. Am I wrong? Has anybody without 2L SA had success at 3L OCI?

You have to have a 2L SA or at the very least the credentials to have gotten one. They're not super picky, but they're still Quinn. They're not looking to barrel scrape.

blahblewblah wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:If they weren't struggling to get folks would they offer that sort of bonus

To hire exclusively 3Ls, you have to offer some sort of incentive. You can debate whether hiring (almost) exclusively 3Ls is a good idea or not, but making that decision and offering a bonus does not mean they are "struggling."

Ok, thank you

Anonymous User wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:why is Quinn struggling so much to get people? how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

Is this true? QE did 3L hiring at my school and was offering a 35k singing bonus to anyone that got an offer and accepted. Hard to believe they can't find people for this

I think Quinn was right in their reasons for ditching the summer program, but it's hard to be the first mover. It won't work unless other similar firms also ditch it.

The issue is that students who would otherwise maybe want to go to Quinn in a city like LA spent their summer at MTO, Latham, Gibson and have built up some loyalty. They also know what they are getting so they aren't willing to trade an offer at one of those for a 3L offer at Quinn (as economists call it, the endowment effect).

Candidly, Quinn's offices are also pretty shitty, are in a crap part of downtown, and for the hours you have to work there the bonuses aren't great.

SmokeytheBear wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:why is Quinn struggling so much to get people? how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

Is this true? QE did 3L hiring at my school and was offering a 35k singing bonus to anyone that got an offer and accepted. Hard to believe they can't find people for this

I think Quinn was right in their reasons for ditching the summer program, but it's hard to be the first mover. It won't work unless other similar firms also ditch it.

The issue is that students who would otherwise maybe want to go to Quinn in a city like LA spent their summer at MTO, Latham, Gibson and have built up some loyalty. They also know what they are getting so they aren't willing to trade an offer at one of those for a 3L offer at Quinn (as economists call it, the endowment effect).

Candidly, Quinn's offices are also pretty shitty, are in a crap part of downtown, and for the hours you have to work there the bonuses aren't great.

Their offices are in a great part of downtown for practical purposes. 7th/Fig is very convenient and it's not an unsafe part of DTLA at all. I have no desire to work at Quinn (and turned down their offer), but I'd much rather work in the TCW building than, say, in the building where MTO/Gibson are.

(Full disclosure: I work in the US Bank tower and neither like nor dislike the location.)

hlsperson1111 wrote:

SmokeytheBear wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:why is Quinn struggling so much to get people? how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

Is this true? QE did 3L hiring at my school and was offering a 35k singing bonus to anyone that got an offer and accepted. Hard to believe they can't find people for this

I think Quinn was right in their reasons for ditching the summer program, but it's hard to be the first mover. It won't work unless other similar firms also ditch it.

The issue is that students who would otherwise maybe want to go to Quinn in a city like LA spent their summer at MTO, Latham, Gibson and have built up some loyalty. They also know what they are getting so they aren't willing to trade an offer at one of those for a 3L offer at Quinn (as economists call it, the endowment effect).

Candidly, Quinn's offices are also pretty shitty, are in a crap part of downtown, and for the hours you have to work there the bonuses aren't great.

Their offices are in a great part of downtown for practical purposes. 7th/Fig is very convenient and it's not an unsafe part of DTLA at all. I have no desire to work at Quinn (and turned down their offer), but I'd much rather work in the TCW building than, say, in the building where MTO/Gibson are.

(Full disclosure: I work in the US Bank tower and neither like nor dislike the location.)

Never said it was unsafe, just said it was crap in my opinion. I would much rather work in the Wells Fargo building (where MTO and GDC are) for easy access to Grand Central Market, Chinatown, etc.

lawyersHATEhim wrote:Got an email ding for a SA, but it encouraged me to apply as a 3L and they would keep my resume on file. Is this a standard ding that goes to everyone, or did they really mean it?

I got something similar. I'm above median at HLS, but not that much above.

jd20132013 wrote:how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

I (not a QE employee) have been wondering the same thing. I'm fascinated by the amount of rage QE generates on this forum. It is objectively one of the most successful litigation shops, in part because it is the *only* large firm that has managed to develop a substantial contingent fee portfolio. It offers an informal workplace environment and diverse, often cutting-edge assignments (blessedly few of which are white collar or bank defense, as far as I can tell). It pays most of its associates above-market compensation - even those fortunate few who manage to work less than the 2000 hours required for year-end bonus eligibility. Once you factor in signing, clerkship, and retention bonuses, along with profit-sharing, I suspect most QE associates are now being paid appreciably more than Cravath scale.

As far as I can tell the non-frivolous justifications for the anti-QE animus are (1) QE is arrogant/greedy and (2) QE is "cheap". Regarding arrogance, in my impression there is no meaningful distinction between top firms on this score, and I've seen nothing to suggest QE people are cockier or more profit-driven than the yacht club bros who populate traditional white shoe firms, defending financial criminals en route to sick F500 "exit options". Nor does QE, despite its strong performance in the more meaningful and granular Chambers surveys, have the requisite "V[x]" Vault ranking to attract dedicated prestige whores. Regarding "cheapness," while I hear grumbling about skimping on support staff etc., it's not entirely clear this is anything more or less than efficiency - trimming fat so as to enable, yes, greater partner profits but also above-market associate pay.

So in sum, I don't get it, and am forced to draw the tentative conclusion QE is simply being savaged for doing things differently and arguably better. But I welcome constructive counterarguments. In particular I'm curious as to how exactly people experience QE's supposed day-to-day "cheapness" and whether this outweighs the additional compensation they now offer.

Anonymous User wrote:

jd20132013 wrote:how'd their reputation get so trashed when all firms suck ?

I (not a QE employee) have been wondering the same thing. I'm fascinated by the amount of rage QE generates on this forum. It is objectively one of the most successful litigation shops, in part because it is the *only* large firm that has managed to develop a substantial contingent fee portfolio. It offers an informal workplace environment and diverse, often cutting-edge assignments (blessedly few of which are white collar or bank defense, as far as I can tell). It pays most of its associates above-market compensation - even those fortunate few who manage to work less than the 2000 hours required for year-end bonus eligibility. Once you factor in signing, clerkship, and retention bonuses, along with profit-sharing, I suspect most QE associates are now being paid appreciably more than Cravath scale.

As far as I can tell the non-frivolous justifications for the anti-QE animus are (1) QE is arrogant/greedy and (2) QE is "cheap". Regarding arrogance, in my impression there is no meaningful distinction between top firms on this score, and I've seen nothing to suggest QE people are cockier or more profit-driven than the yacht club bros who populate traditional white shoe firms, defending financial criminals en route to sick F500 "exit options". Nor does QE, despite its strong performance in the more meaningful and granular Chambers surveys, have the requisite "V[x]" Vault ranking to attract dedicated prestige whores. Regarding "cheapness," while I hear grumbling about skimping on support staff etc., it's not entirely clear this is anything more or less than efficiency - trimming fat so as to enable, yes, greater partner profits but also above-market associate pay.

So in sum, I don't get it, and am forced to draw the tentative conclusion QE is simply being savaged for doing things differently and arguably better. But I welcome constructive counterarguments. In particular I'm curious as to how exactly people experience QE's supposed day-to-day "cheapness" and whether this outweighs the additional compensation they now offer.

1) why are you anon?
2) QE doesn't pay above market. Especially for how much they work their associates. Work-life balance is horrible even by big-law standards. They pay the 180k, their sign-on bonus is to replace a typical SA associateship, and their clerking bonus is above average only if you have 1 clerkship. Also most of their peers pay a higher clerkship bonus (see, susman)
3) work-life balance is atrocious. Hence why quinn has horrible retention and is shelling out money to recruit
4) they're cheap. look at their new bonus profit-sharing 'pool'. it's basically a gimmick to make it seem like they pay bonuses akin to hueston hennigan, wachtell etc, but in reality it's shittier than what they already had.

with all that, they still advertise themselves as if they were hot shit. they're not.