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Everyone always talks about JD's blackbox compensation, but I'm wondering how much of a difference we're talking here for the average associate. I know that instead of getting bonuses that money is just worked into their salary, and I also that it can end up being below market. Does anyone know the rough numbers compared to a peer firm with normal pay structure?

Anonymous User wrote:Everyone always talks about JD's blackbox compensation, but I'm wondering how much of a difference we're talking here for the average associate. I know that instead of getting bonuses that money is just worked into their salary, and I also that it can end up being below market. Does anyone know the rough numbers compared to a peer firm with normal pay structure?

Pay is below market for like most associates. They don't really "work in" the bonus into your salary. First year salary is $180,000. If you are lucky as you move up, you make marginally more than the market base. If you are most people, you just get paid around market base.

above the law posted a few data points. Some were pretty bad: like 200k for a 4th year

I ended up choosing another firm last year because of this. There's an ATL article that gives rough numbers from last year (http://abovethelaw.com/2016/06/the-jig- ... black-box/), but basically you don't get bonuses baked in at all. Plus, the salary bumps are midway through the year so you're actually always lagging in pay anyway (i.e. 2nd years stay at 180k until July, etc. (or maybe they start earlier, a JD assoc can correct me on that)).

Standard salaries are:
1st year: $180,000 + 15,000 = 195,000
2nd year: $190,000 + 25,000 = 215,000
3rd year: $210,000 + 50,000 = 260,000
4th year: $235,000 + 65,000 = 300,000
5th year: $260,000 + 80,000 = 340,000

Compare that to JD (choosing the highest values from the ATL article):
1st year: 180,000
2nd year: 190,000
3rd year: 230,000
4th year: 265,000
5th year: 310,000

The difference is roughly 125k give or take over 5 years but that's a big chunk of change to leave on the table if you have options to choose from.

I'm at a major market Jones Day office and I'm a third year. Salary has been Cravath scale + cravath bonus every year. There has been extremely low attrition among associates in my office. I don't know what others are paid but I can't imagine people are staying at Jones Day if they are making a lot below market.

I joined JD as a 3rd year after a clerkship and left after 2.5 years. The ATL article is spot on. I was in one of their CA offices and fed the party line when I joined, e.g., high performers can make above market, bonuses are folded into salary, etc. After Cravath raised in 2016, I was 65K behind my peers as a 5th year. A ton of associates, including myself, have since left directly because of the substantial pay difference.

to be fair, you can make 800k as a sixth year at Jones Day apparently. So there's that.

https://abovethelaw.com/2018/06/jones-d ... tion-case/

I would love to get more data points from JD associates. I'm a 2nd/3rd year at a smaller market JD office and have no idea what I'll be paid years 5,6, etc.

isn't JD somewhat selective? Why do people with other options go there...

I’m a rising third year in major market and am at 180.

Anonymous User wrote:isn't JD somewhat selective? Why do people with other options go there...

As much as I dislike the comp, I will say it’s opened a ton of doors (not going to be specific), but it’s not difficult to lateral up the vault ladder with JD — so it’s a pretty good second choice.