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Do I have a shot at the California offices of any of the following (Keker, Munger, Hueston, Latham, Skadden, Bird Marella, Boies, Sidley)?

My understanding is that these are the best white collar shops in California.

I'd be lateraling as a 5th or 6th year. I'm from California.

Stats: I'm only top 1/3 from a t20. I was EIC of a secondary journal. Since graduation, I did 2 years at a generic v50 in DC (white collar group) and I'm currently an AUSA in a non-major-market big city (think Miami, Houston, Portland, Seattle). I'm relatively new at the AUSA thing so I haven't done a ton of stuff (currently doing mostly misdemeanors and smaller felonies but I'm on a larger RICO investigation with another AUSA too).

Alternatively, are there other firms in california with strong white collar practices that I would be more competitive at?

Also, I don't mind staying longer as an AUSA if that would improve my chances of lateraling to the aforementioned firms.

You would not receive an interview at the first three---unless you clerked with an important judge and received an extremely compelling reference from them or from a US attorney with exceptionally close contacts to major partners. (I include these caveats only because I have seen them happen, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.)

I imagine you would be competitive at some of the others based on individual need in those offices for someone at the level you are describing. Its tough to place a 6th year associate unless they can speak to very strong experience in gov't handling major cases (and it seems like you don't quite have that yet).

Anonymous User wrote:You would not receive an interview at the first three---unless you clerked with an important judge and received an extremely compelling reference from them or from a US attorney with exceptionally close contacts to major partners. (I include these caveats only because I have seen them happen, but they are the exceptions that prove the rule.)

I imagine you would be competitive at some of the others based on individual need in those offices for someone at the level you are describing. Its tough to place a 6th year associate unless they can speak to very strong experience in gov't handling major cases (and it seems like you don't quite have that yet).

Thanks, that confirms mostly what I thought. With regards to your concern about placing a 6th year associate, can you speak more/ elaborate on that?

Why do you want to leave the AUSA job? A lot of people hope to become an AUSA from one of these firms.

Lateraling in as an mid-level associate means you only have a few years of soul-sucking work before you probably don't make partner and get kicked out of the firm.

I would build more experience as an AUSA first, then explore your options according to what your colleagues seem to be doing. Keker, Munger, and Hueston isn't happening.

malibustacy wrote:Why do you want to leave the AUSA job? A lot of people hope to become an AUSA from one of these firms.

Lateraling in as an mid-level associate means you only have a few years of soul-sucking work before you probably don't make partner and get kicked out of the firm.

I would build more experience as an AUSA first, then explore your options according to what your colleagues seem to be doing. Keker, Munger, and Hueston isn't happening.

Probably because making $70,000 working biglaw hours isn't all that enjoyable. Prestige can only go so far.

MrT wrote:

malibustacy wrote:Why do you want to leave the AUSA job? A lot of people hope to become an AUSA from one of these firms.

Lateraling in as an mid-level associate means you only have a few years of soul-sucking work before you probably don't make partner and get kicked out of the firm.

I would build more experience as an AUSA first, then explore your options according to what your colleagues seem to be doing. Keker, Munger, and Hueston isn't happening.

Probably because making $70,000 working biglaw hours isn't all that enjoyable. Prestige can only go so far.

Don't forget loan forgiveness, if OP has any outstanding loans.

1styearlateral wrote:

MrT wrote:

malibustacy wrote:Why do you want to leave the AUSA job? A lot of people hope to become an AUSA from one of these firms.

Lateraling in as an mid-level associate means you only have a few years of soul-sucking work before you probably don't make partner and get kicked out of the firm.

I would build more experience as an AUSA first, then explore your options according to what your colleagues seem to be doing. Keker, Munger, and Hueston isn't happening.

Probably because making $70,000 working biglaw hours isn't all that enjoyable. Prestige can only go so far.

Don't forget loan forgiveness, if OP has any outstanding loans.

And the fact that as a 6th year, you're probably making closer to 90-100k, depending on the location. Not that its a fortune, but, still.

Anonymous User wrote:You would not receive an interview at the first three---unless you clerked with an important judge and received an extremely compelling reference from them or from a US attorney with exceptionally close contacts to major partners.

Even if OP had those things, OP almost surely wouldn't get an interview at the first three firms as a senior associate. I know that at least two of those three wouldn't hire a sixth-year.

MrT wrote:

malibustacy wrote:Why do you want to leave the AUSA job? A lot of people hope to become an AUSA from one of these firms.

Lateraling in as an mid-level associate means you only have a few years of soul-sucking work before you probably don't make partner and get kicked out of the firm.

I would build more experience as an AUSA first, then explore your options according to what your colleagues seem to be doing. Keker, Munger, and Hueston isn't happening.

Probably because making $70,000 working biglaw hours isn't all that enjoyable. Prestige can only go so far.

It depends on if you enjoy the work you do or not.

My plan was always (roughly) to do white collar in CA. I like being an AUSA fine and I'm having fun but its not in the market I want to work (CA). I took the AUSA job partly because a lot of my mentors told me it was a good stepping stone towards getting there and would be useful/valuable for WC work.

I'm considering trying to get an AUSA job in NDCA or CDCA but those are really competitive too.

Anonymous User wrote:Do I have a shot at the California offices of any of the following (Keker, Munger, Hueston, Latham, Skadden, Bird Marella, Boies, Sidley)?

My understanding is that these are the best white collar shops in California.

I'd be lateraling as a 5th or 6th year. I'm from California.

Stats: I'm only top 1/3 from a t20. I was EIC of a secondary journal. Since graduation, I did 2 years at a generic v50 in DC (white collar group) and I'm currently an AUSA in a non-major-market big city (think Miami, Houston, Portland, Seattle). I'm relatively new at the AUSA thing so I haven't done a ton of stuff (currently doing mostly misdemeanors and smaller felonies but I'm on a larger RICO investigation with another AUSA too).

Alternatively, are there other firms in california with strong white collar practices that I would be more competitive at?

Also, I don't mind staying longer as an AUSA if that would improve my chances of lateraling to the aforementioned firms.

Hueston associate here. Very unlikely we'd take a senior lateral. Maybe as a 5th year? It's very, very busy here, so wouldn't hurt to apply.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Do I have a shot at the California offices of any of the following (Keker, Munger, Hueston, Latham, Skadden, Bird Marella, Boies, Sidley)?

My understanding is that these are the best white collar shops in California.

I'd be lateraling as a 5th or 6th year. I'm from California.

Stats: I'm only top 1/3 from a t20. I was EIC of a secondary journal. Since graduation, I did 2 years at a generic v50 in DC (white collar group) and I'm currently an AUSA in a non-major-market big city (think Miami, Houston, Portland, Seattle). I'm relatively new at the AUSA thing so I haven't done a ton of stuff (currently doing mostly misdemeanors and smaller felonies but I'm on a larger RICO investigation with another AUSA too).

Alternatively, are there other firms in california with strong white collar practices that I would be more competitive at?

Also, I don't mind staying longer as an AUSA if that would improve my chances of lateraling to the aforementioned firms.

Hueston associate here. Very unlikely we'd take a senior lateral. Maybe as a 5th year? It's very, very busy here, so wouldn't hurt to apply.

Thanks for this. I'd be applying next year (2018 as 5th year) or the year after (2019 as 6th year) so 5th year is fine if you think that's preferable.

Probalby a dumb question but why is 6th year less valuable? I was thinking more time at the USAO's office here, where I'd be on better cases would only make me more valuable.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Do I have a shot at the California offices of any of the following (Keker, Munger, Hueston, Latham, Skadden, Bird Marella, Boies, Sidley)?

My understanding is that these are the best white collar shops in California.

I'd be lateraling as a 5th or 6th year. I'm from California.

Stats: I'm only top 1/3 from a t20. I was EIC of a secondary journal. Since graduation, I did 2 years at a generic v50 in DC (white collar group) and I'm currently an AUSA in a non-major-market big city (think Miami, Houston, Portland, Seattle). I'm relatively new at the AUSA thing so I haven't done a ton of stuff (currently doing mostly misdemeanors and smaller felonies but I'm on a larger RICO investigation with another AUSA too).

Alternatively, are there other firms in california with strong white collar practices that I would be more competitive at?

Also, I don't mind staying longer as an AUSA if that would improve my chances of lateraling to the aforementioned firms.

Hueston associate here. Very unlikely we'd take a senior lateral. Maybe as a 5th year? It's very, very busy here, so wouldn't hurt to apply.

Question for Hueston associate--do I have a chance? Top 1/2/3 at top 40 law school with COA and district court clerkships lined up. Law review and moot court. Does my school destroy my chances?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Do I have a shot at the California offices of any of the following (Keker, Munger, Hueston, Latham, Skadden, Bird Marella, Boies, Sidley)?

My understanding is that these are the best white collar shops in California.

I'd be lateraling as a 5th or 6th year. I'm from California.

Stats: I'm only top 1/3 from a t20. I was EIC of a secondary journal. Since graduation, I did 2 years at a generic v50 in DC (white collar group) and I'm currently an AUSA in a non-major-market big city (think Miami, Houston, Portland, Seattle). I'm relatively new at the AUSA thing so I haven't done a ton of stuff (currently doing mostly misdemeanors and smaller felonies but I'm on a larger RICO investigation with another AUSA too).

Alternatively, are there other firms in california with strong white collar practices that I would be more competitive at?

Also, I don't mind staying longer as an AUSA if that would improve my chances of lateraling to the aforementioned firms.

Hueston associate here. Very unlikely we'd take a senior lateral. Maybe as a 5th year? It's very, very busy here, so wouldn't hurt to apply.

Question for Hueston associate--do I have a chance? Top 1/2/3 at top 40 law school with COA and district court clerkships lined up. Law review and moot court. Does my school destroy my chances?

Outside shot that significantly improves if you're willing to work in the OC office.

Are there any plans to open up east coast or SF offices of Hueston?

Anonymous User wrote:Probalby a dumb question but why is 6th year less valuable? I was thinking more time at the USAO's office here, where I'd be on better cases would only make me more valuable.

It's not about "value" in the abstract. It's about office culture and partnership track.

At most high-end lit boutiques, the model is to hire junior associates, usually after a clerkship. Associates who stick with it for 5-6 years are then considered for partner. If the associate makes partner, they make partner; if not, they leave (or, in rare circumstances, stick around as of counsel).

This model breaks down if you start bringing in senior-associate laterals. Even mid-level laterals can be a problem. That's why it's unusual for elite lit boutiques to hire anyone more senior than a third-year associate.

rpupkin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:You would not receive an interview at the first three---unless you clerked with an important judge and received an extremely compelling reference from them or from a US attorney with exceptionally close contacts to major partners.

Even if OP had those things, OP almost surely wouldn't get an interview at the first three firms as a senior associate. I know that at least two of those three wouldn't hire a sixth-year.

Yeah, that's fair. My point was that those firms are not going to look at OP for several reasons, first because he or she wouldn't be considered qualified, but just as importantly because he or she is too senior. The first could be overcome by that I mentioned; the second is tougher. I would posit that someone with abnormally strong AUSA experience (e.g. handling multiple trials) with very good connections could come into an elite boutique, but those are as I say the exceptions that prove the rule. (HH has done this.)

Anonymous User wrote:Are there any plans to open up east coast or SF offices of Hueston?

No.

What if you're a lateral willing to come in at a greatly reduced class year? What if OP agrees to come on board as a 3rd year or something.

Anonymous User wrote:What if you're a lateral willing to come in at a greatly reduced class year? What if OP agrees to come on board as a 3rd year or something.

I've seen people try this, but it generally doesn't work.

Anyone know what screening interviews and call backs are like at Hueston Hennigan? Are they like normal big law interviews?

rpupkin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Probalby a dumb question but why is 6th year less valuable? I was thinking more time at the USAO's office here, where I'd be on better cases would only make me more valuable.

It's not about "value" in the abstract. It's about office culture and partnership track.

At most high-end lit boutiques, the model is to hire junior associates, usually after a clerkship. Associates who stick with it for 5-6 years are then considered for partner. If the associate makes partner, they make partner; if not, they leave (or, in rare circumstances, stick around as of counsel).

This model breaks down if you start bringing in senior-associate laterals. Even mid-level laterals can be a problem. That's why it's unusual for elite lit boutiques to hire anyone more senior than a third-year associate.

Thanks, can you share which WC firms I might be more competitive at? Also, given your advice, I could apply now as a 4th year -- do you think thats preferable to waiting a year and applying as a 5th year?

Anonymous User wrote:

rpupkin wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Probalby a dumb question but why is 6th year less valuable? I was thinking more time at the USAO's office here, where I'd be on better cases would only make me more valuable.

It's not about "value" in the abstract. It's about office culture and partnership track.

At most high-end lit boutiques, the model is to hire junior associates, usually after a clerkship. Associates who stick with it for 5-6 years are then considered for partner. If the associate makes partner, they make partner; if not, they leave (or, in rare circumstances, stick around as of counsel).

This model breaks down if you start bringing in senior-associate laterals. Even mid-level laterals can be a problem. That's why it's unusual for elite lit boutiques to hire anyone more senior than a third-year associate.

Thanks, can you share which WC firms I might be more competitive at? Also, given your advice, I could apply now as a 4th year -- do you think thats preferable to waiting a year and applying as a 5th year?

If you apply widely to biglaw firms, I am sure that you will get a bite as a mid-level lateral associate; firms hire 4-5th years (from other law firms) all the time, so I doubt you will be disadvantaged for having gone to a USAO in the interim.

Can I ask, though, what your end game is? If you go into biglaw as a 5th year WC associate with only limited experience at a USAO, your chances of making partner are slim. So you'll get another 3-5 years as an associate, and then have to move again. If you are looking to make partner, you'd be much better off moving up in the ranks at the USAO.

If your priority is to be in CA (though I think it's strange that you seem indifferent between SF and LA), then I think you're being a little too pessimistic about your chances of transferring to NDCA or CDCA. Talk to your supervisors. I'm sure they know people in those offices and can make it happen, especially if you're in a different west coast office. it may take awhile, though. I think the unofficial DOJ line is that attorneys should stay in their office for 3 years before requesting a move.

Anonymous User wrote:Anyone know what screening interviews and call backs are like at Hueston Hennigan? Are they like normal big law interviews?

Yes, normal big law interviews, except that you will almost assuredly interview with John. We are looking for a particular type of person - if you provide a username, I'll PM you.