2017 Texas OCI (UT/SMU/Baylor/UH + Others) Forum

[BigZuck]

Is anyone aware of how transfers have done in the past?

Almost all the transfers got biglaw (if they wanted it). I'm not too sure what some other posts are talking about in re to transfers not doing well at OCI.

Anon- I'm pretty sure that we're talking about transfers we know who graduated jobless (let alone without a big law job)

Anyway it's neither here nor there and purely reading tea leaves, everyone should just focus on their job search strategy and crushing the interviews they have.

[Anonymous User]

I'm the anon who asked if it was worth it to do the NYC job fair. I attended the fair and did well, and now I have 2 V10 offers as well as one of BB/VE/LW/KE from a pre-oci interview and I'm looking for advice about where to go if I want to do transactional work. I'm not from Texas but I like living in Austin and spent this summer in Houston and I could see myself living there. I didn't like or dislike NYC, but when I went for my callbacks I thought the city was pretty inconvenient and crowded. However, the NY firms have really great reputations and every associate I've talked to has gone on and on about the exit options and the amazing work they do, and it does sound pretty awesome to work on the stuff that's in the WSJ headlines. But I would be making the same amount in Texas and have so much more money because of the cost of living.

Is prestige worth the additional stress? Do people in New York work a lot more than the people in Texas?

[philosoraptor]

I'm the anon who asked if it was worth it to do the NYC job fair. I attended the fair and did well, and now I have 2 V10 offers as well as one of BB/VE/LW/KE from a pre-oci interview and I'm looking for advice about where to go if I want to do transactional work. I'm not from Texas but I like living in Austin and spent this summer in Houston and I could see myself living there. I didn't like or dislike NYC, but when I went for my callbacks I thought the city was pretty inconvenient and crowded. However, the NY firms have really great reputations and every associate I've talked to has gone on and on about the exit options and the amazing work they do, and it does sound pretty awesome to work on the stuff that's in the WSJ headlines. But I would be making the same amount in Texas and have so much more money because of the cost of living.

Is prestige worth the additional stress? Do people in New York work a lot more than the people in Texas?

If you want corporate and have a choice between Austin and New York, take the former and don't look back. But you probably mean Houston, since LW and KE don't have Austin offices. For me that would be a closer call. If you want to be in Texas long term, it's hard to get more prestigious than V&E or BB, and I doubt the additional New York stress would be worth it.

[texanslimjim]

I could see considering the NY V10 firm if your Houston offer was from HayBoo or Gardere or something. If you have a Houston BB/VE/LW/KE offer and you don't love New York it makes no sense whatsoever to go to New York.

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys have any thoughts on if the V10's prestige and name recognition will be worth the stress down the road? The NY juniors I met all say they don't have facetime requirements and everyone respects vacations, but I don't really believe them completely because they're recruiting and they probably fudged the truth. Just worried being in Houston and doing "energy work" will limit where I can go in the future.

Basically, is there a significant difference between Texas and NY work culture?

[cannibal ox]

You're going to get a lot of generalized answers, since "work culture" depends on firm, practice group, and partner you're working for, but it's probably safe to say Texas has a better work culture than NY.

What do you want to do in the future? Will working a couple years in NYC help you get there?

Seems like this is going to come down to a personal decision of prestige vs lifestyle.

[Anonymous User]

I know it's just day one, but any news on CBS or dinner invites??

[Anonymous User]

Do you guys have any thoughts on if the V10's prestige and name recognition will be worth the stress down the road? The NY juniors I met all say they don't have facetime requirements and everyone respects vacations, but I don't really believe them completely because they're recruiting and they probably fudged the truth. Just worried being in Houston and doing "energy work" will limit where I can go in the future.

Basically, is there a significant difference between Texas and NY work culture?

I'd be quite surprised if VE/BB/LW/KE Houston associates don't work more than their counterparts at the same firm in NYC. But probably on balance/in balance they work less than, say, Cravath associates.

Of course raw hours worked/billed is just one part of the equation. I think who you work with/for is probably the biggest part of the equation and that can be tough to predict if not near a total crapshoot at times. Facetime requirements/vacation respecting also generally goes back to who you work for.

[Anonymous User]

You won't be limited by primarily doing energy work.

[texanslimjim]

Do you guys have any thoughts on if the V10's prestige and name recognition will be worth the stress down the road? The NY juniors I met all say they don't have facetime requirements and everyone respects vacations, but I don't really believe them completely because they're recruiting and they probably fudged the truth. Just worried being in Houston and doing "energy work" will limit where I can go in the future.

I guess we should assume your offer is BB/VE since KE/LW are V10 firms themselves and it makes no sense to worry about giving up "prestige" for going to their Houston offices. I realize KE/LW's Houston offices kind of have their own dynamic going on despite both officially being global "one firms", but no one is going to pay attention to the "Houston, TX" next to that line on your resume 5-10 years from now.

As for BB/VE, I think you've bought too much into the prestige/rankings hype if you think doing energy transactional work for them might limit your career options compared to a V10 in NY. Indeed, the much higher effective income you'll be earning due to taxes/CoL probably gives you much greater short/medium-term career flexibility.

Basically, is there a significant difference between Texas and NY work culture?

Impossible to help you here with this info. Houston VE/BB/LW/KE are as different from each other as they are from NY V10s.

[Right2BearArms]

Do you guys have any thoughts on if the V10's prestige and name recognition will be worth the stress down the road? The NY juniors I met all say they don't have facetime requirements and everyone respects vacations, but I don't really believe them completely because they're recruiting and they probably fudged the truth. Just worried being in Houston and doing "energy work" will limit where I can go in the future.

Basically, is there a significant difference between Texas and NY work culture?

Well, considering KE and Latham are V10s, and BB and V&E might as well be in Texas, unless you really, really don't want to live in Texas down the road there is really no prestige bump to going to a different V10 in NYC.

"Energy work" as you put it is not going to limit you in any meaningful sense. SEC rules are SEC rules if you do CapM (actually there are special reporting rules for production companies w/r/t reserves and some other items which most people never touch), M&A is M&A.

Having never worked in NYC, I cannot speak directly to the culture, but that said, I have taken vacation each year in Biglaw and not had to cancel or work much during the time I was out of the office (this gets more difficult as you get more senior) and I have time for family and hobbies. I am probably lucky in that I work for partners who also like to do things beside work, but I have not found it to be that bad overall.

Edit: for full disclosure, I work at one of BB/V&E/Latham/KE in Houston.

[Anonymous User]

any CB's?

[Right2BearArms]

any CB's?

We have had several people in and have made at least one offer so far. Not sure on the school of people interviewed.

[Anonymous User]

So far have received the following CBs from OCI:
Winston Strawn
Baker Botts
Bracewell
Vinson Elkins
Mayer Brown
Sidley

All for Houston offices

[favabeansoup]

If you have offers at respectable shops in both NY and Houston, take where you want to live more.

I've never worked in NY, but I assume that you'll probably work the same amount of hours at most Houston places as you would New York. 2,000 hours is 2,000 hours.

Plenty of reasons to like NY over TX. Much more cosmopolitan, more diverse deal work, more "things to do" in city, etc. TX/Houston has much better QOL though re: housing, expenses, etc.

I think v10 "prestige" is overrated somewhat. A deal is a deal. Sure it's nice to work on the headline grabbing stuff, but you're doing the same work as someone working on lower end stuff too basically, especially as a junior. Much more important to get along with people you are working with than what you are working on, imo

Also, are V10 NY corporate associates really getting a lot of good exits back into TX? That might make it more appealing, but I don't think they are, at least in significant numbers. Much more likely they exit into NY, or maybe lateral to a TX firm (not really exit then).

I'm sure people could, but frankly I think it's just easier to stay in TX at a good shop then try to exit somewhere here. I don't think someone at a NY v10 would have an edge over someone at top TX firm for exit opportunities in Houston simply because of some v10 deal "prestige".

Edit: also yes, people definitely lie during recruiting about FaceTime requirements and vacation respect.

[Anonymous User]

3.8 GPA at SMU with good past work experience. Bid for OCI screeners from Sidley, Gibson Dunn, Jackson Walker, Norton Rose, Thompson Knight, Jones Day, Winston & Strawn, Akin Gump, Baker Botts, Holland & Knight, Baker McKenzie, and K&L Gates (all for Dallas offices). Got screeners for all but K&L Gates. So far I've gotten callbacks from V&E, Sidley, Jones Day, Norton Rose, Baker Botts, and Akin Gump.

I have a friend who is a 3.9 with good connections who summered at one of the above firms (but isn't going back) and did several pre-OCI in-firm interviews. She already has pending offers at TK, Sidley, V&E, and Jones Day. I also have another SMU friend who has pending offers at V&E and K&L Gates thanks to pre-OCI callbacks. The process is moving earlier and earlier.

I hear Weil is doing their callbacks on Saturdays, which is interesting. Is that normal?

[Lawyer54321]

3.8 GPA at SMU with good past work experience. Bid for OCI screeners from Sidley, Gibson Dunn, Jackson Walker, Norton Rose, Thompson Knight, Jones Day, Winston & Strawn, Akin Gump, Baker Botts, Holland & Knight, Baker McKenzie, and K&L Gates (all for Dallas offices). Got screeners for all but K&L Gates. So far I've gotten callbacks from V&E, Sidley, Jones Day, Norton Rose, Baker Botts, and Akin Gump.

I have a friend who is a 3.9 with good connections who summered at one of the above firms (but isn't going back) and did several pre-OCI in-firm interviews. She already has pending offers at TK, Sidley, V&E, and Jones Day. I also have another SMU friend who has pending offers at V&E and K&L Gates thanks to pre-OCI callbacks. The process is moving earlier and earlier.

I hear Weil is doing their callbacks on Saturdays, which is interesting. Is that normal?

Are all of these Dallas callbacks? I heard that Norton Rose had done Austin but hadn't heard Dallas.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, all Dallas. Norton notified me of the CB by email last night.

[Anonymous User]

JD - Dallas CB ---> offer next day (8/10)

[Anonymous User]

Any movement from any Latham offices?

[Anonymous User]

I was a summer at LW this summer, and have accepted my offer so I can speak a little to the facetime/life-work balance question.

In recruiting people can always lie, but the junior associates I know were very honest that there is definitely an expectation of near daily facetime for 1st and 2nd years if you aren't on vacation. You come in unassigned at Latham and most people stay that way for a while as they naturally drift into a group so you work broadly for any/all the partners and senior associates so being in-office matters, especially in the first year. But facetime doesn't mean being there till 5 or later. When I would walk around the office mid-afternoon a lot of the time half the associates were already gone and working from home. It was pretty common for people to cut out after our lunches. I also do know that some juniors that did stuff like plan to work remotely for a week or so, but it was more planned. Not just not going into the office for days on end.

Maternity/paternity leave seemed basically sacred and no one interrupted it.

When people were on vacation they did drop off the email chains I was on for projects, and they weren't given work that I saw. I also never saw them respond to emails, but I know what I saw there is limited. Juniors said it was respected and I don't not believe them, but also the truth is always fudged in recruiting. I think it's always harder once you have more responsibility so senior associates have more trouble with it than others.

[Anonymous User]

CB from Gardere Dallas

[Anonymous User]

How speedy is the Austin market with respect to giving callbacks? Not from a Texas school but had a screener with an Austin office and have heard nothing since (not normally a good sign but I'm curious...).

[Anonymous User]

Heard through the grapevine.
Baker Hostetler Houston CB
V&E Houston offers
Norton Dallas CBs

[Anonymous User]

Any NYC callbacks?