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I was with you until the last paragraph.

MCFC wrote:I was with you until the last paragraph.

My thing is that I don't really have anything to offer. No clerkship, no moot court, no trial team. I was on main journal, but I figure maybe my GPA and LOR can show a hiring partner that, although I didn't rotate through the lit group, I'm a hard worker and can swing it in lit.

They already said no. Best bet would be to clerk and either try to rejoin your firm or go for a different firm.

Anonymous User wrote:

MCFC wrote:I was with you until the last paragraph.

My thing is that I don't really have anything to offer. No clerkship, no moot court, no trial team. I was on main journal, but I figure maybe my GPA and LOR can show a hiring partner that, although I didn't rotate through the lit group, I'm a hard worker and can swing it in lit.

I think you misunderstood your firm's recruiting contact.

The contact's soft rejection of your request wasn't a remark upon your ability, nor was it a remark upon the competitiveness of your resume. There's simply more aspiring litigators at big firms than actual work at this time, and the practice group probably wants first-years that they've actually worked with before.

Showing them your grades and shiny accolades probably won't change anything

runinthefront wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: I think you misunderstood your firm's recruiting contact.

The contact's soft rejection of your request wasn't a remark upon your ability, nor was it a remark upon the competitiveness of your resume. There's simply more aspiring litigators at big firms than actual work at this time, and the practice group probably wants first-years that they've actually worked with before.

Showing them your grades and shiny accolades probably won't change anything

OP here. I see what you're saying, and I think you're right. Thanks for your help.

Anonymous User wrote: Also, I've actually kind of already contacted my firm's recruiting department.

Lastly, the only reason why I'm entertaining the notion that I might have a shot at getting into the group is because of how I did 3L-year.

Reading these two paragraphs together, you might want to tread lightly going forward or else your firm might have already seen you as a flight risk because they'd assume you'd be unhappy with your soon-to-be-assigned practice group.

Jchance wrote:

Anonymous User wrote: Also, I've actually kind of already contacted my firm's recruiting department.

Lastly, the only reason why I'm entertaining the notion that I might have a shot at getting into the group is because of how I did 3L-year.

Reading these two paragraphs together, you might want to tread lightly going forward or else your firm might have already seen you as a flight risk because they'd assume you'd be unhappy with your soon-to-be-assigned practice group.

Yeah, that's the main reason why I'm asking for advice. I don't want my firm to have a shitty opinion of me before I even start. Just didn't know if something like this was common or if it even had an effect on the firm.

My sense of the market is that lit associates are going to be chopped in the next few years at a surprisingly rapid rate. Besides the fixed fees and the increasingly outsourced grunt work, we will likely see white collar defense dry up at the same time government regulatory work is...not so stable. Long story short, that recruiter might have saved your ass from increasing your chances of getting laid off (and without any shiny lit credentials to take you to your next firm, or a lit boutique, or anything else).

It's nice that litigation thrills you. You said that you like debt finance work, and you like the person you'd be working with. That's pretty thrilling in and of itself, especially when it comes with a paycheck. Given that you've never tried big firm litigation, your perception of it is likely skewed. It's not like a fun evidence final. You've mostly taken corp classes so I'm sure lit stuff seems fresh, but in practice it can be rote as fuck, especially in firms that don't get interesting lit projects. You'd probably be a good fit for something like bankruptcy if your major issue with corp is that you don't get to write enough memos.

Your location consideration is interesting. You should probably start prepping to apply for clerkships in the area where you want to live. That evidence prof can help. Consider state supreme court clerkships too, if there's a particular area you want to go back to.

landshoes wrote:My sense of the market is that lit associates are going to be chopped in the next few years at a surprisingly rapid rate. Besides the fixed fees and the increasingly outsourced grunt work, we will likely see white collar defense dry up at the same time government regulatory work is...not so stable. Long story short, that recruiter might have saved your ass from increasing your chances of getting laid off (and without any shiny lit credentials to take you to your next firm, or a lit boutique, or anything else).

It's nice that litigation thrills you. You said that you like debt finance work, and you like the person you'd be working with. That's pretty thrilling in and of itself, especially when it comes with a paycheck. Given that you've never tried big firm litigation, your perception of it is likely skewed. It's not like a fun evidence final. You've mostly taken corp classes so I'm sure lit stuff seems fresh, but in practice it can be rote as fuck, especially in firms that don't get interesting lit projects. You'd probably be a good fit for something like bankruptcy if your major issue with corp is that you don't get to write enough memos.

Your location consideration is interesting. You should probably start prepping to apply for clerkships in the area where you want to live. That evidence prof can help. Consider state supreme court clerkships too, if there's a particular area you want to go back to.

Thanks a ton for this advice. I am interested in bankruptcy seeing as how it is kind of a mix of transactional and lit, but at this point, I'm not sure how I could get my foot in the door. You sound like you have personal experience, are you in a lit group at a large firm?

In a lot of firms, you get into bankruptcy by being a willing body, but I can't really give advice for your firm. I don't see any reason why you wouldn't be qualified from what you've said.

Then do a bankruptcy clerkship, those are easier to get and you'd get the right experience/training for firms.

Yo real talk your "genuine passion" for being a BIG LITIGATOR isn't real. That's is not something that could be cultivated by taking law school classes. You have no idea what BIG LITIGATORS and BIG DEAL LAWYERS do based on your SA and law school classes.

I wouldn't mess with the offer in hand right now but YMMV I guess.

If you want lit, ask. No one will figure out your life for you. No one will ask you twice about your stated preferences. You have to do it yourself, directly.

BigZuck wrote:Yo real talk your "genuine passion" for being a BIG LITIGATOR isn't real. That's is not something that could be cultivated by taking law school classes. You have no idea what BIG LITIGATORS and BIG DEAL LAWYERS do based on your SA and law school classes.

I wouldn't mess with the offer in hand right now but YMMV I guess.

This is all probably true, but, at this point, how else am I supposed to decide what I want to do? I've done as much research as possible. Only thing left is to get the real world experience.

jkpolk wrote:If you want lit, ask. No one will figure out your life for you. No one will ask you twice about your stated preferences. You have to do it yourself, directly.

I agree with you. I have to figure this out for myself. My question is more in regard to how my firm would receive my request. Obviously, no one can really give a strong opinion without knowing the identity of my firm. But, I was hoping people with experience might be able to give me some insight. If this will put me behind the 8 ball before I even step foot in my firm, then I should probably refrain.

we sound identical. My GPA went up substantially 3L year and I have had some of the same thoughts (Incoming first year chose one thing and then wanted to switch lit). What I decided to do was give my first choice an honest try for one year because at least I know I like the people in that group and i liked it over the summer. I liked evidence class as well, but relized I do not know what real lit is like.

I know my firm would not be happy if I tried to switch since they courted me hard and was one of few people joining a busy group. If i try out a lit case pro bono and absolutely love it, I can then come to them in 6 months or so and tell them look, i want to to lit and I know I want to do lit and i know what it's like.

Up till now, all my extra curriculars have been transactional.

Lastly, I could hopefully use pro bono to try to lateral to a smaller firm or lower level firm or apply for a clerkship one year out (obviously dont know how well this will work out.) What I know now is that I have a chance to do work that I know is tolerable with a group of people I know I like.

This sounds like what you have as well. I dont want to tell you what you shoudl do, but I investigated this and did some thinking, actually wrote out an email to recruiting which I didn't send, and decided that a bird in teh hand is worth two in the bush and what not.

From talking with other associates in my firm who have switched, if you are good in your group, prove your mettle, work hard and are enthusiastic, and you genuinely want to switch, the firm will be more receptive because they'll want to keep you on board even if you have to redo a year or whatever (obviously the earlier in your career you can make this case, the easier it sounds like it will be). If you NEED to switch, I would apply to clerkships and have a confirmed alternative before making a strong request to switch groups given what recruiting already told you.

The clerkship route makes a ton of sense. And it sounds like your evidence prof might be able to make a few calls for you.

Life is short. If you want to do lit, go do lit.

ernie wrote:The clerkship route makes a ton of sense. And it sounds like your evidence prof might be able to make a few calls for you.

Life is short. If you want to do lit, go do lit.

Anon from right above. The only reason I would say maybe try the other practice first and try to do pro bono in lit for a short period is because you really dont know that you LOVE lit, and worst case scenario is you switch to lit, realize you want to do debt and try to switch back. That's at least what im telling myself.