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Hey everyone,

I'm a first year associate at a biglaw firm in a major market, currently on OPT, and at this point, pretty much not getting an H1B visa through the lottery. Anyone else out there in the same boat? How is your firm resolving the situation?

Time to start looking in your home country

user has been outed for anon abuse

Anecdotally I know some associates who are currently in their London offices because of the visa lottery.

Curious about how many attempts we get. 2? 3? And do we apply in our 3L year?

jawsjawsjaws wrote:Anecdotally I know some associates who are currently in their London offices because of the visa lottery.

Curious about how many attempts we get. 2? 3? And do we apply in our 3L year?

Since we're non-STEM, we get a maximum of 2 attempts. 1 during your 3L year (a lot of firms apply for you then, but not all) in the general pool since we don't have our JD yet, and second time as a first-year associate in the advanced degree pool.

I also know some who were rotated to their firm's London office. Some firms simply cut you loose, though, so do your due diligence if you're not locked in to a firm yet.

heythatslife wrote:

jawsjawsjaws wrote:Anecdotally I know some associates who are currently in their London offices because of the visa lottery.

Curious about how many attempts we get. 2? 3? And do we apply in our 3L year?

Since we're non-STEM, we get a maximum of 2 attempts. 1 during your 3L year (a lot of firms apply for you then, but not all) in the general pool since we don't have our JD yet, and second time as a first-year associate in the advanced degree pool.

I also know some who were rotated to their firm's London office. Some firms simply cut you loose, though, so do your due diligence if you're not locked in to a firm yet.

Thanks for the clear explanation. Hate to be needing a visa, but I guess it is what it is.

Idk about the 3L application. I've been told by an immigration atty you can't apply as a 3L unless you already have a (foreign) law degree. Your position has to be related to your degree.
Idk if something like an undergrad (or grad) engineering degree would count for IP.
Or maybe it's a firm-by-firm decision. No clue.

heythatslife wrote:

jawsjawsjaws wrote:Anecdotally I know some associates who are currently in their London offices because of the visa lottery.

Curious about how many attempts we get. 2? 3? And do we apply in our 3L year?

Since we're non-STEM, we get a maximum of 2 attempts. 1 during your 3L year (a lot of firms apply for you then, but not all) in the general pool since we don't have our JD yet, and second time as a first-year associate in the advanced degree pool.

I also know some who were rotated to their firm's London office. Some firms simply cut you loose, though, so do your due diligence if you're not locked in to a firm yet.

Some firms also send you to their Asian offices (esp. if you are originally from there), and I've seen some people return to the US on an L-1 visa after their stint in Asia, but that's also a case-by-case issue.

Anonymous User wrote:Idk about the 3L application. I've been told by an immigration atty you can't apply as a 3L unless you already have a (foreign) law degree. Your position has to be related to your degree.
Idk if something like an undergrad (or grad) engineering degree would count for IP.
Or maybe it's a firm-by-firm decision. No clue.

But a 3L at my school w/o a science degree just got his H1B

^Congrats to them, that's awesome! Like I said, idk, just relating what I was told a couple of months ago.

you *can* apply without getting your JD but you don't get the benefit of the advanced degree cap until, ya know, get the advanced degree.

heythatslife wrote:

jawsjawsjaws wrote:Anecdotally I know some associates who are currently in their London offices because of the visa lottery.

Curious about how many attempts we get. 2? 3? And do we apply in our 3L year?

Since we're non-STEM, we get a maximum of 2 attempts. 1 during your 3L year (a lot of firms apply for you then, but not all) in the general pool since we don't have our JD yet, and second time as a first-year associate in the advanced degree pool.

I also know some who were rotated to their firm's London office. Some firms simply cut you loose, though, so do your due diligence if you're not locked in to a firm yet.

Hey, any clue whether it's necessary to have a US undergrad for law firms to apply for your H1B while in 3L? Thanks

Anonymous User wrote:

heythatslife wrote:

jawsjawsjaws wrote:Anecdotally I know some associates who are currently in their London offices because of the visa lottery.

Curious about how many attempts we get. 2? 3? And do we apply in our 3L year?

Since we're non-STEM, we get a maximum of 2 attempts. 1 during your 3L year (a lot of firms apply for you then, but not all) in the general pool since we don't have our JD yet, and second time as a first-year associate in the advanced degree pool.

I also know some who were rotated to their firm's London office. Some firms simply cut you loose, though, so do your due diligence if you're not locked in to a firm yet.

Hey, any clue whether it's necessary to have a US undergrad for law firms to apply for your H1B while in 3L? Thanks

No, you have to get your degree evaluated to make sure you fulfill the credentials.

Does anyone get a tax LLM just so that they get another chance at the H1B lottery?

grades?? wrote:Time to start looking in your home country

user has been outed for anon abuse

Have you considered deleting your account?

cheaptilts wrote:

grades?? wrote:Time to start looking in your home country

user has been outed for anon abuse

Have you considered deleting your account?

I stand by my comment. With the changes this idiot in chief wants to make to the visa system, it is at least reasonable to look in their home countries. And yes, some biglaw firms will let you transfer to a foreign office, but not necessarily. I had 2 friends who graduated, didn't get their H1, then the two firms (both v50) said see ya and they eventually had to both head home.

So yeah. Sorry the anon pissed someone off, but its not like anything I am saying is ridiculous. The prudent thing for OP is to at least start looking back home, or marry a citizen in case ops firm wont transfer op to another office.

grades?? wrote:

cheaptilts wrote:

grades?? wrote:Time to start looking in your home country

user has been outed for anon abuse

Have you considered deleting your account?

I stand by my comment. With the changes this idiot in chief wants to make to the visa system, it is at least reasonable to look in their home countries. And yes, some biglaw firms will let you transfer to a foreign office, but not necessarily. I had 2 friends who graduated, didn't get their H1, then the two firms (both v50) said see ya and they eventually had to both head home.

So yeah. Sorry the anon pissed someone off, but its not like anything I am saying is ridiculous. The prudent thing for OP is to at least start looking back home, or marry a citizen in case ops firm wont transfer op to another office.

I don't think he meant to sound as offensive but just rather straight forward, but yes OP you should start looking for jobs in your home country. China/HK market is quite hot, but if you don't speak Chinese it'll be very hard to break into.

Most firms are unlikely to sponsor L1, some aren't even willing to sponsor the lottery next year. My firm basically let go an associate who didn't get the H1B, didn't even get him a position in our overseas offices.

Alternatively consider an LLM, depends on how much you wanna stay in the US and if you can sill enroll. My law school offers 50% off llm tuition if you already have a JD from them.

Would be helpful if people could (anonymously) mention firms that transfer you to a foreign office if you don't get H1b and those that simply cut you lose. It is possible that individual factors in addition to H1b could be in play in these decisions. Even so, incoming international JD students would be able to make better choices with this information. Thanks.

grades?? wrote:Time to start looking in your home country

user has been outed for anon abuse

grades?? wrote:I am in desperate need of a mass mailing primer if anyone would be so kind. I searched the forum but it is hard to find anything like do x,y,z etc.

grades?? wrote:Title says it. Barely above median at PDV. Assuming grades stay the same in spring, am I f*^&ed for DC biglaw? Fiancé works (has fantastic job & job security) in DC and that is the only goal at this point.

IDK. I'd be more worried about your own job search?

1) since he wrote that stuff in the first half of 2016 I'm pretty sure he's worked something out by now

2) that's kind of a crappy ad hominem to post. His comment came across as kind of snarky as an anon post but it's also not an unreasonable response to the OP's question.

freekick wrote:Would be helpful if people could (anonymously) mention firms that transfer you to a foreign office if you don't get H1b and those that simply cut you lose. It is possible that individual factors in addition to H1b could be in play in these decisions. Even so, incoming international JD students would be able to make better choices with this information. Thanks.

I think this will be anecdotal and based on firm staffing needs at the time. I've never heard of a firm that guarantees they will find a spot for you if you can't work in the US. This is valuable information for sure but I feel it would be a mistake to rely on it.

I was also wondering what happens after the firm transfers you? My guess is you get a year for one more try at a visa. If not successful, I think you get cut lose then.

Npret wrote:

freekick wrote:Would be helpful if people could (anonymously) mention firms that transfer you to a foreign office if you don't get H1b and those that simply cut you lose. It is possible that individual factors in addition to H1b could be in play in these decisions. Even so, incoming international JD students would be able to make better choices with this information. Thanks.

I think this will be anecdotal and based on firm staffing needs at the time. I've never heard of a firm that guarantees they will find a spot for you if yo can't work in the US. This is valuable information for sure but I feel it would be a mistake to rely on it.

Agreed. The information needs to be handled with care. The value of sharing such information for me is that if someone here reports that firm X cut Y lose after Y didn't get H1B, then I would have specific questions to ask of firm X if I interview. A form of mistaken reliance you may have in mind would be to not even bid on firm X or something just as extreme.

ETA: Accidental anon. Freekick here.

Anonymous User wrote:

Npret wrote:

freekick wrote:Would be helpful if people could (anonymously) mention firms that transfer you to a foreign office if you don't get H1b and those that simply cut you lose. It is possible that individual factors in addition to H1b could be in play in these decisions. Even so, incoming international JD students would be able to make better choices with this information. Thanks.

I think this will be anecdotal and based on firm staffing needs at the time. I've never heard of a firm that guarantees they will find a spot for you if yo can't work in the US. This is valuable information for sure but I feel it would be a mistake to rely on it.

Agreed. The information needs to be handled with care. The value of sharing such information for me is that if someone here reports that firm X cut Y lose after Y didn't get H1B, then I would have specific questions to ask of firm X if I interview. A form of mistaken reliance you may have in mind would be to not even bid on firm X or something just as extreme.

ETA: Accidental anon. Freekick here.

Don't ask about the visa situation until you get an offer. Even then I believe no firm is going to promise a candidate a job if they can't legally work in the US. They can't know what hiring needs will be in other offices Maybe the best you will get is that a firm who will cut you, they will let you know?

I'm the anon who posted this. just had a discussion with my firm re: this. we're waiting a little bit more to see if the h1b works out (it probably won't), and if it doesn't the firm is transferring me to a latin american office. i'm not from the region but i work in a us-specific practice so it makes sense for the firm to keep me as close to the US offices as possible. The firm did have to have a "is this person worth it" conversation with my practice group before deciding on this route. We're trying again next year for the h1b.

Anyone else have stories from this or previous years on losing the lottery?

Npret wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Npret wrote:

freekick wrote:Would be helpful if people could (anonymously) mention firms that transfer you to a foreign office if you don't get H1b and those that simply cut you lose. It is possible that individual factors in addition to H1b could be in play in these decisions. Even so, incoming international JD students would be able to make better choices with this information. Thanks.

I think this will be anecdotal and based on firm staffing needs at the time. I've never heard of a firm that guarantees they will find a spot for you if yo can't work in the US. This is valuable information for sure but I feel it would be a mistake to rely on it.

Agreed. The information needs to be handled with care. The value of sharing such information for me is that if someone here reports that firm X cut Y lose after Y didn't get H1B, then I would have specific questions to ask of firm X if I interview. A form of mistaken reliance you may have in mind would be to not even bid on firm X or something just as extreme.

ETA: Accidental anon. Freekick here.

Don't ask about the visa situation until you get an offer. Even then I believe no firm is going to promise a candidate a job if they can't legally work in the US. They can't know what hiring needs will be in other offices Maybe the best you will get is that a firm who will cut you, they will let you know?

You make an interesting point. I was wondering at what point the visa question comes up during the recruitment process. And given that firms know that a given candidate may not get H1B no matter what nationality etc, a stipulation on that would seem to be standard in hiring visa-dependent candidates. What do you think?

freekick wrote:

Npret wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:

Npret wrote:

freekick wrote:Would be helpful if people could (anonymously) mention firms that transfer you to a foreign office if you don't get H1b and those that simply cut you lose. It is possible that individual factors in addition to H1b could be in play in these decisions. Even so, incoming international JD students would be able to make better choices with this information. Thanks.

I think this will be anecdotal and based on firm staffing needs at the time. I've never heard of a firm that guarantees they will find a spot for you if yo can't work in the US. This is valuable information for sure but I feel it would be a mistake to rely on it.

Agreed. The information needs to be handled with care. The value of sharing such information for me is that if someone here reports that firm X cut Y lose after Y didn't get H1B, then I would have specific questions to ask of firm X if I interview. A form of mistaken reliance you may have in mind would be to not even bid on firm X or something just as extreme.

ETA: Accidental anon. Freekick here.

Don't ask about the visa situation until you get an offer. Even then I believe no firm is going to promise a candidate a job if they can't legally work in the US. They can't know what hiring needs will be in other offices Maybe the best you will get is that a firm who will cut you, they will let you know?

You make an interesting point. I was wondering at what point the visa question comes up during the recruitment process. And given that firms know that a given candidate may not get H1B no matter what nationality etc, a stipulation on that would seem to be standard in hiring visa-dependent candidates. What do you think?

No they don't need a stipulation, it's the law. You can't work for them legally. Maybe I don't know what you mean by stipulation?