Which firms do top HYS students go to? Forum

[Anonymous User]

HLS grad and current mid-level. Top grades open up spots in top-tier appellate groups (Jones Day, GDC, Sidley, Wilmer, etc.), selective litigation boutiques (Kellogg Huber, Susman, W&C, etc.), and selective general practice firms (WLRK, MTO, etc.). That said, some people with top grades also go to DOJ Honors or other government jobs, some do fellowships or VAPs or other academic jobs, and some go to big general practice firms that people with median grades could get - especially if they want to do transactional work.

[Anonymous User]

Family member was #2 at HLS when they graduated and opted to go to a small law firm in the midwest then in house 2 years later. Was associated GC at one the big-3 auto companies for a few years then retired.

it's all about personal preference.

Similar story: family friend graduated magna from HLS. Never practiced law. Went straight into IB, made partner at a BB bank. As others have said, top HYS students do what they want, so the answers to OPs question are going to be all over the place.

[bruinfan10]

Gibson Dunn LA

I have no skin in this game, but curious about the above. I had no idea Gibson LA was that selective.

It's not. Gibson is definitely more selective than your typical big law firm, but it's not as selective as all the other firms mentioned in the post you culled this from. But there are always plenty of HYS students summering at various Gibson offices. They're perhaps not the top HYS students, but plenty of them have solid grades and will go on to good clerkships after graduating.

as usual this is right. they somehow seem surprised that they don't retain all their summers though. very weird. it's a real stopping-off point for summers who will later upgrade their resumes with fed clerkships.

[Pokemon]

The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense of revealed preferences.

Does anyone have data on this, statistical or anecdotal?

Proskauer Rose.

[lawlorbust]

Maybe I'm just being crotchety, but isn't this kind of the wrong question to be asking? If you're top of your class at HYS, shouldn't you just ask, "what do I want to do?" Elite level hiring is going to still be somewhat idiosyncratic, but literally no legal jobs are foreclosed to you in that position. So really, OP, what is your dream outcome (assuming you're actually in this position)?

Came here to make this same point. TITCR, unless OP is asking so he or she can avoid the places where top HYS students go. I've worked in moderately-high-prestige biglaw for 8 years and my firm conclusion is that law students lack imagination. "Where did last year's iteration of me go to work?" is the most common heuristic, and you'd think top students who can write their own ticket would realize why that's a dumb way to decide on a firm.

The name says it all- where do the students who get top grades at HYS tend to end up? I understand that there will be substantial variation based on individual interest. I'm mostly hoping to get a rough sense of revealed preferences.

Does anyone have data on this, statistical or anecdotal?

Proskauer Rose.

I'm guessing this post is made in jest, but there's a point be spun around it: I would be far from shocked at a "top HYS student" ending up at Proskauer, especially if she had a strong interest in entertainment work.

Same for a whole range of other unshiny firms -- Skadden (tax), DPW (finreg), so on. Alternatively, if you're interested in, say, labor or environmental work, you end up at shops that haven't been mentioned at all on this list.

A guy like Rob Manfred (HLR, magna) starts out at Morgan Lewis before emerging at the MLB and then rising up to become commish. Jake Sullivan (Rhodes, YLJ) chills at Faegre back in MN after clerking with Breyer before jumping to Klobuchar's staff and then jumping again to Clinton. Lots of SCOTUS clerks choose appellate groups at Orrick and Akin and other firms that have no TLS preftige whatsoever.

Cutting against the claim by "moderately-high-prestige" poster, there are lots of counterexamples of top performers who know what they want and are happy forging their own path to get there.

[Anonymous User]

conversely, not HYS, but a T20, not top student, but at or just below median. Currently at V5, worked there as a summer. Busted my ass and proved it outside of the classroom - from UG to iBanking, started/sold my own company (in UG), started and crashed and burned on another (In UG); varsity athlete in college, national team. Use what you have to your advantage, people from the bottom get to the top and people at the top turn out not to do shit. It's a case by case analysis.

[Npret]

Grabs popcorn.

[dabigchina]

I would also add that it has a lot to do with geographic preference too. WSGR (Tax) in PA comes to mind.

Same for a whole range of other unshiny firms -- Skadden (tax), DPW (finreg)

I wouldn't call DPW or even Skadden "unshiny". That's kind of harsh.

[fxb3]

Cutting against the claim by "moderately-high-prestige" poster, there are lots of counterexamples of top performers who know what they want and are happy forging their own path to get there.

I didn't mean to be making a generalization about what they "all" do. And to be fair I only see the ones who interview here. Some turn out to be great, but generally only if they know what they want to do rather than coming to us because some of last year's law review masthead did, too.

I think my point is the same as yours: if you're truly a top HYS student, don't worry about prestige and worry about what you actually want.

[Anonymous User]

Hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread too much, but people have alluded quite a bit to the top HYS students not going to law firms and I'm wondering what other opportunities there are out there, especially if one has unusual career goals (compared to other top HYS students). I get the sense that most of these people have specific things/career trajectories they are passionate about (SCOTUS clerk, academia, government), but what if someone had top 5 (people, not %) grades at HYS and didn't really care what they did, and in fact didn't really want to work much at all, just wanted to make money as quickly and painlessly (to the extent those aren't mutually exclusive) as possible and then retire? I realize that most people recommend ibanking/consulting or above-market biglaw for making money, but those options all seem very sweatshop-y to me. Basically the question is whether (and how) someone could leverage top grades into a job that made money comparable to normal biglaw but with more 9-5ish hours, or if that isn't possible, then what would be the highest-paying job that top grades could get (so that one could gtfo of the sweatshop as soon as possible).

[rpupkin]

but what if someone had top 5 (people, not %) grades at HYS and didn't really care what they did, and in fact didn't really want to work much at all, just wanted to make money as quickly and painlessly (to the extent those aren't mutually exclusive) as possible and then retire?

Quit law and do something else.

ETA: Finishing at the very top of your class at HYS opens up lots of great opportunities. Making a bunch of money quickly and painlessly is not one of those opportunities.

If your goal is to get rich, don't go to law school. If you measure success by money-making potential over the course of a legal career, the #1 student at YLS is not in a meaningfully different position than a median student at Cornell.

[sener212]

dla PIPER

[Jchance]

Just a caveat, the forge-your-own-path isn't necessarily limited to the top few HYS students, but it equally applies to those tippy top T30 grads based on the wiki bios I've read--some of which did a federal clerkship but not all. I think it's important to figure out what career you truly want then plan how to get there with your legal background.

[rpupkin]

Just a caveat, the forge-your-own-path isn't necessarily limited to the top few HYS students, but it equally applies to those tippy top T30 grads based on the wiki bios I've read--some of which did a federal clerkship but not all. I think it's important to figure out what career you truly want then plan how to get there with your legal background.

I don't understand what "forge your own path" means in this context. What are you talking about?

[Anonymous User]

Hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread too much, but people have alluded quite a bit to the top HYS students not going to law firms and I'm wondering what other opportunities there are out there, especially if one has unusual career goals (compared to other top HYS students). I get the sense that most of these people have specific things/career trajectories they are passionate about (SCOTUS clerk, academia, government), but what if someone had top 5 (people, not %) grades at HYS and didn't really care what they did, and in fact didn't really want to work much at all, just wanted to make money as quickly and painlessly (to the extent those aren't mutually exclusive) as possible and then retire? I realize that most people recommend ibanking/consulting or above-market biglaw for making money, but those options all seem very sweatshop-y to me. Basically the question is whether (and how) someone could leverage top grades into a job that made money comparable to normal biglaw but with more 9-5ish hours, or if that isn't possible, then what would be the highest-paying job that top grades could get (so that one could gtfo of the sweatshop as soon as possible).

Op here. One option is going into legal academia and consulting/doing of counsel work on the side. Good balance of money and hours.

[Jchance]

what i meant is what others have said, i.e. the theme of this thread of "Writing Your Own Ticket", like the example of Jake Sullivan

[rpupkin]

Hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread too much, but people have alluded quite a bit to the top HYS students not going to law firms and I'm wondering what other opportunities there are out there, especially if one has unusual career goals (compared to other top HYS students). I get the sense that most of these people have specific things/career trajectories they are passionate about (SCOTUS clerk, academia, government), but what if someone had top 5 (people, not %) grades at HYS and didn't really care what they did, and in fact didn't really want to work much at all, just wanted to make money as quickly and painlessly (to the extent those aren't mutually exclusive) as possible and then retire? I realize that most people recommend ibanking/consulting or above-market biglaw for making money, but those options all seem very sweatshop-y to me. Basically the question is whether (and how) someone could leverage top grades into a job that made money comparable to normal biglaw but with more 9-5ish hours, or if that isn't possible, then what would be the highest-paying job that top grades could get (so that one could gtfo of the sweatshop as soon as possible).

Op here. One option is going into legal academia and consulting/doing of counsel work on the side. Good balance of money and hours.

Someone doing academia + consulting likely is working more than 9 to 5, and certainly isn't making enough money to retire early. Don't get me wrong: such a career could be interesting and fun (and will lead to decent money), but it's not a get-rich quick path.

[Wild Card]

Depends on your practice area of interest.

At NYU, for example, above-median can waltz into Davis Polk for transactional work, but one needs top-10% to do V5 litigation.

I have a feeling that the V10/V20 firms are willing to dip much lower into the class at YHS in hiring for litigation.

[cheaptilts]

Depends on your practice area of interest.

At NYU, for example, above-median can waltz into Davis Polk for transactional work, but one needs top-10% to do V5 litigation.

I have a feeling that the V10/V20 firms are willing to dip much lower into the class at YHS in hiring for litigation.

This is an exaggeration. You don't even need top 10% grades for DPW/V5 litigation at lower T13 schools.

[lawlorbust]

Hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread too much, but people have alluded quite a bit to the top HYS students not going to law firms and I'm wondering what other opportunities there are out there, especially if one has unusual career goals (compared to other top HYS students). I get the sense that most of these people have specific things/career trajectories they are passionate about (SCOTUS clerk, academia, government), but what if someone had top 5 (people, not %) grades at HYS and didn't really care what they did, and in fact didn't really want to work much at all, just wanted to make money as quickly and painlessly (to the extent those aren't mutually exclusive) as possible and then retire? I realize that most people recommend ibanking/consulting or above-market biglaw for making money, but those options all seem very sweatshop-y to me. Basically the question is whether (and how) someone could leverage top grades into a job that made money comparable to normal biglaw but with more 9-5ish hours, or if that isn't possible, then what would be the highest-paying job that top grades could get (so that one could gtfo of the sweatshop as soon as possible).

Tbf, this is not a problem that anyone in the "top 5" that I know has.

[Anonymous User]

Hopefully I'm not hijacking the thread too much, but people have alluded quite a bit to the top HYS students not going to law firms and I'm wondering what other opportunities there are out there, especially if one has unusual career goals (compared to other top HYS students). I get the sense that most of these people have specific things/career trajectories they are passionate about (SCOTUS clerk, academia, government), but what if someone had top 5 (people, not %) grades at HYS and didn't really care what they did, and in fact didn't really want to work much at all, just wanted to make money as quickly and painlessly (to the extent those aren't mutually exclusive) as possible and then retire? I realize that most people recommend ibanking/consulting or above-market biglaw for making money, but those options all seem very sweatshop-y to me. Basically the question is whether (and how) someone could leverage top grades into a job that made money comparable to normal biglaw but with more 9-5ish hours, or if that isn't possible, then what would be the highest-paying job that top grades could get (so that one could gtfo of the sweatshop as soon as possible).

Tbf, this is not a problem that anyone in the "top 5" that I know has.

Op here. What do you mean by this?

[dabigchina]

Depends on your practice area of interest.

At NYU, for example, above-median can waltz into Davis Polk for transactional work, but one needs top-10% to do V5 litigation.

I have a feeling that the V10/V20 firms are willing to dip much lower into the class at YHS in hiring for litigation.

I'm kind of surprised by this. This is the first time I've heard of these firms having different grade cutoffs for litigation v corporate.

[cdotson2]

V5 litigation is not a thing. Litigators don't dream about going to cravath or skadden. They want Gibson, Covington, Williams etc. or fancy lit boutiques like Susman, Kaker, Munger. Vault Rankings don't equate to level of competitiveness in hiring or desirability for specific areas of law.

[v5junior]

Depends on your practice area of interest.

At NYU, for example, above-median can waltz into Davis Polk for transactional work, but one needs top-10% to do V5 litigation.

I have a feeling that the V10/V20 firms are willing to dip much lower into the class at YHS in hiring for litigation.

I'm kind of surprised by this. This is the first time I've heard of these firms having different grade cutoffs for litigation v corporate.

Dude is talking out of his ass. No V5 firm forces you to choose between corp and lit before getting the offer, so there's no way for them to enforce this. If anything it probably trends the other way (though not by any conscious effort by the law firms) bc for top students interested in corporate work, ending up at a top NY firm is basically the best employment outcome, whereas that's not the case for litigation.

[ballouttacontrol]

Depends on your practice area of interest.

At NYU, for example, above-median can waltz into Davis Polk for transactional work, but one needs top-10% to do V5 litigation.

I have a feeling that the V10/V20 firms are willing to dip much lower into the class at YHS in hiring for litigation.

lol is NYU really that much of a TTT? it wasn't nearly that hard at my closely-enough-ranked school