AMA - former Sullivan & Cromwell associate Forum

[eth1988]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

1. Didn't bust my ass at CLS for Kent. Pretty much checked out for 2L/3L. Once you learn the law school game, you get it.

2. Rather bill 2300 at S&C than bill 1950 at Paul Hastings. Always hear from classmates who work at "life-style" firms complain about not getting enough hours.

[Burlington4174]

If you were in the NYC office, have you used the new gym? How is it?

[lavarman84]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

1. Didn't bust my ass at CLS for Kent. Pretty much checked out for 2L/3L. Once you learn the law school game, you get it.

2. Rather bill 2300 at S&C than bill 1950 at Paul Hastings. Always hear from classmates who work at "life-style" firms complain about not getting enough hours.

Yep, you definitely were a S&C associate.

[Anonymous User]

Curious as to what your insights about the law school game were...

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

1. Didn't bust my ass at CLS for Kent. Pretty much checked out for 2L/3L. Once you learn the law school game, you get it.

2. Rather bill 2300 at S&C than bill 1950 at Paul Hastings. Always hear from classmates who work at "life-style" firms complain about not getting enough hours.

I don't know what the subset of associates who get a full bonus and then hope they could bill 350 additional hours is, but I'm confident there are enough to fill a summer class at S&C.

I think we can safely put this thread out to pasture.

[RaceJudicata]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

1. Didn't bust my ass at CLS for Kent. Pretty much checked out for 2L/3L. Once you learn the law school game, you get it.

2. Rather bill 2300 at S&C than bill 1950 at Paul Hastings. Always hear from classmates who work at "life-style" firms complain about not getting enough hours.

I don't know what the subset of associates who get a full bonus and then hope they could bill 350 additional hours is, but I'm confident there are enough to fill a summer class at S&C.

I think we can safely put this thread out to pasture.

Nothing like the thrill of turning in utter perfection and receiving in-your-face criticism to get the juices flowing (for an additional 350+ hours).

[Anonymous User]

To that poster's defense, I am at a lifestyle firm (somewhat), and it can be more stressful having to fight to get enough work to make 1950, than being at a place where work is abundant, and you can pick and choose who you work with. It's not fun when every assignment is a competition to get more work from someone somewhat desirable to work with. When more work is available than body's associates may have more control over turning down assignments and/or who they work with.

[Anonymous User]

To that poster's defense, I am at a lifestyle firm (somewhat), and it can be more stressful having to fight to get enough work to make 1950, than being at a place where work is abundant, and you can pick and choose who you work with. It's not fun when every assignment is a competition to get more work from someone somewhat desirable to work with. When more work is available than body's associates may have more control over turning down assignments and/or who they work with.

Not to mention, it isn't like there are no positives to working at a place like S&C. Exit options are a thing. Also LJL at the idea that getting good grades in law school is a function of "busting ass" in any meaningful way.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

To that poster's defense, I am at a lifestyle firm (somewhat), and it can be more stressful having to fight to get enough work to make 1950, than being at a place where work is abundant, and you can pick and choose who you work with. It's not fun when every assignment is a competition to get more work from someone somewhat desirable to work with. When more work is available than body's associates may have more control over turning down assignments and/or who they work with.

I choose Option C--coast for a few years until shitcanned.

[Anonymous User]

To that poster's defense, I am at a lifestyle firm (somewhat), and it can be more stressful having to fight to get enough work to make 1950, than being at a place where work is abundant, and you can pick and choose who you work with. It's not fun when every assignment is a competition to get more work from someone somewhat desirable to work with. When more work is available than body's associates may have more control over turning down assignments and/or who they work with.

I choose Option C--coast for a few years until shitcanned.

That's the point. Option C may be an option at SC, but isn't an option at my firm. If you coast and aren't well regarded your work dries up and you're fired well before Year 2. Just isn't enough work to go around. Wish I had known this before.

[lawlorbust]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

Well, don't you feel a bit stupid for striving for CLS over, say, any generic T25? Maybe in hindsight you do, but surely that should prime you to be at least somewhat charitable towards the OP's life decisions.

[dabigchina]

I don't know why we are getting so triggered over this. Dude enjoyed his time at S&C. Who cares. I personally wouldn't work there but to each his own.

[Anonymous User]

Would a litigator ever have the opportunity to rotate through the paris office?

How much discretion would someone have joining the firm out of clerkships (as in, not a former summer) to select their cases and stick to international investigations or competition work

[Anonymous User]

To that poster's defense, I am at a lifestyle firm (somewhat), and it can be more stressful having to fight to get enough work to make 1950, than being at a place where work is abundant, and you can pick and choose who you work with. It's not fun when every assignment is a competition to get more work from someone somewhat desirable to work with. When more work is available than body's associates may have more control over turning down assignments and/or who they work with.

I choose Option C--coast for a few years until shitcanned.

Defensible choice. But uh so is busting ass and then exiting into a somewhat less demanding job that still pays you a ton of money.

[eth1988]

Does S&C consider 3Ls without a 2L Biglaw SA, at all?

Not really sure.

If you were in the NYC office, have you used the new gym? How is it?

Yes. It's decent. Definitely no Equinox but nice enough for a good workout. Not crowded.

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

1. Didn't bust my ass at CLS for Kent. Pretty much checked out for 2L/3L. Once you learn the law school game, you get it.

2. Rather bill 2300 at S&C than bill 1950 at Paul Hastings. Always hear from classmates who work at "life-style" firms complain about not getting enough hours.

I don't know what the subset of associates who get a full bonus and then hope they could bill 350 additional hours is, but I'm confident there are enough to fill a summer class at S&C.

I think we can safely put this thread out to pasture.

It might be difficult for you to understand, but some people like practicing law and are interested in gaining a deeper understanding of the law. I would work an extra 350 hours without extra pay if the work is interesting, and I find a lot of my work at S&C to be interesting.

If you want to cruise until you get shitcanned, that's your choice. There are a lot of jobs that pays well (over a career). Should not waste money on law school if you aren't interested in the law.

Would a litigator ever have the opportunity to rotate through the paris office?

How much discretion would someone have joining the firm out of clerkships (as in, not a former summer) to select their cases and stick to international investigations or competition work

Paris office is more corporate-focused. At S&C, you can define your practice. You can say no to assignments as long as you go out (to senior lawyers), hustle, and get enough international investigations/competition work to feel comfortable. There is definitely a lot of litigation work involving foreign companies.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Johann]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

1. Didn't bust my ass at CLS for Kent. Pretty much checked out for 2L/3L. Once you learn the law school game, you get it.

2. Rather bill 2300 at S&C than bill 1950 at Paul Hastings. Always hear from classmates who work at "life-style" firms complain about not getting enough hours.

Yep, you definitely were a S&C associate.

did you go into law because you aren't very good at math?
pay/hours worked = hourly wage ...

[Johann]

I don't know why we are getting so triggered over this. Dude enjoyed his time at S&C. Who cares. I personally wouldn't work there but to each his own.

if he really enjoyed it he wouldnt have left. he either wasnt very good at what he did and got asked to leave or didnt like what he was doing and left to do something else. which is why its dumb hes shilling for the firm now.

[eth1988]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

1. Didn't bust my ass at CLS for Kent. Pretty much checked out for 2L/3L. Once you learn the law school game, you get it.

2. Rather bill 2300 at S&C than bill 1950 at Paul Hastings. Always hear from classmates who work at "life-style" firms complain about not getting enough hours.

Yep, you definitely were a S&C associate.

did you go into law because you aren't very good at math?
pay/hours worked = hourly wage ...

800 on SAT math brah. I'm saying I don't care about the fact that an extra hour of work nets my partner $$$ and reduces my hourly wage if I find the work interesting.

I don't know why we are getting so triggered over this. Dude enjoyed his time at S&C. Who cares. I personally wouldn't work there but to each his own.

if he really enjoyed it he wouldnt have left. he either wasnt very good at what he did and got asked to leave or didnt like what he was doing and left to do something else. which is why its dumb hes shilling for the firm now.

I liked the work there. I left because I knew I wouldn't make partner. I was not "very good" in the sense that I couldn't be one of the 1-5 of 120 associates in each starting class who eventually makes partner. Doesn't mean I didn't have a good experience there. Let me make it simple for you to understand: I liked working at S&C + I knew I wouldn't make partner + there are interesting work else where = I leave S&C.

[Johann]

you dont have to make it simple for me. i already gathered it was 1 of the 2.

how were your personal relationships while billing 2300 a year? again, no need to make it simple i already know its either (1) the good ones that existed struggled or (2) no good ones existed.
what is the coolest thing you have bought with your exorbitant salary?
what did your weekends look like? hobbies?
would having a wife and kids be sustainable?
how many of your class peers quit by the time you left?

people can like biglaw on this website. but i think they need to clarify why they liked biglaw or why their unique situation allowed biglaw to work because its the most brutal educated profession in the US and probably world. its only liked by a very select few portion of people that are workaholics. youre glorifying one of the biggest shithole/sweatshop firms in a shithole sweatshop career, so yeah your AMA is dangerous as hell.

you came into a job that beats you down to a pulp within a couple years of knowing you have no longterm future there but some how indoctrinates you into working 2300+ billables a year (which is ordering dinner at the firm 3 nights a week pace and weekend work) all for some mirage-carrot of getting a less horrible job.

[Johann]

and why did you like the work?
you're going to have to flesh that out because that's terrible. juniors get shit work.

[Monochromatic Oeuvre]

Dear OP,

How many business cards does it take to soften the blow of thinking that you busted your ass at CLS to nab Kent so you could have the privilege of billing 2300 hours only to make the same as the Paul Hastings 1950 dudes who coasted to median at Cornell?

Sincerely,
Eager Beaver

Well, don't you feel a bit stupid for striving for CLS over, say, any generic T25? Maybe in hindsight you do, but surely that should prime you to be at least somewhat charitable towards the OP's life decisions.

I was a splitter who fucked around in college and wouldn't have gotten in to CLS in a more competitive year. But I did also bust my ass, although wound up wayyyy away from Kent. So he's got me there (whatever, this thread isn't about me). I wound up at a firm where I'll bill way less than 2300 (I hope--no promises if they fuck me), which even with all the choice in the world would seem like a better option than 2300 hours with zero chance at partnership, but then again I don't LOVE THE LAW like OP does. So no real comment from him about how the rest of the legal cohort is supposed to get by.

[cron1834]

Bragging about SAT scores. Why are there ppl like this in the world?

[RaceJudicata]

Bragging about SAT scores. Why are there ppl like this in the world?

God wanted SullCrom to have a full summer class.

[Rahviveh]

The psycho OP has a point. If you don't find the law interesting then you shouldn't have gone to law school much less work at a firm. There are too many people in biglaw who are just there to feel important or be part of the "business world" (reminder: biz people see corporate lawyers as scum)