How to Coast in Biglaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

OP here, this is all great advice, but basically, if you want anything resembling a normal job, its better to GTFO is the consensus i'm drawing (or just get really lucky). Honestly, I came back from vacation last week and immediately got staffed on a matter that required me staying up till 2 am three days in a row. I think i'm just not cut out for this crap.

Yes. Unless you are in a smaller specialty group, which you are not, you can only manage the hours and the stress. Maybe you have one insane 300 hour month a year instead of three. You are in the office only a couple weekends, not a dozen. You avoid working for exceptionally shitty partners and dealing with the stress of bad reviews. But it's very hard to "coast" in the sense that most people understand it.

CR. "Coasting" in biglaw would be like billing 10 hours a day, instead of 12...LOL.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3rd year in similar situation as OP. Bumping this to refresh and get new tips/advice. Still at first firm (nyc not v10). Billed ~1650 first year and was told I was doing good job but to up my hours (but average for my class was below 1800 so it was just a firm-wide thing). About to finish my second year in December with ~1800-1850 hours this year. I'm hoping this is good enough to still get me no serious talk. Plan is to then stick around for as long as I can as a third year (and hopefully until January 2021) before rinsing and repeating. Lateral market seems pretty ripe so I haven't been worried about job security (and leaving law wouldn't be the worst thing if I was to have no options). I've seen a lot of associates on linked in who have been at 3 biglaw firms by the time they are a fifth year and I feel like the ramp up/down period really helps in longevity too.

I'd love to make it up to 5th year just billing 1800/hrs a year. My strategy has been to be pretty responsive and good on the deals I take on but since it's free market, I turn down work when I'm either really busy or it's a shitty assignment (i.e. you won't find me picking up a call on fri afternoon from someone I'm not on a deal with). A lot of staffing is done by mid levels or senior associates on deals, so I make sure I do a good job and make their life easier when I am on deals with them so they will think of me on the next one. Avoid working directly with partners on lean teams particularly where I know they are not good to work for.

I'm pretty much in it for the money at this point. Save like 80% of my paycheck post taxes. Sure I would love to go in-house but I've quickly realized that legal work, no matter where, is just boring.

Edited to add: another tip I recommend is to get a 6-9 month secondment. Get paid biglaw salary while fucking off at a 9-5 at the client. My understanding is that firms give this to people who need a break. I'm hesitant to broach the topic with any partners though because my hours aren't really high where I "need" a break.

Edited to further add: Strategic vacations help. I could definitely have hit 2200 this year but I spaced out vacations every quarter (and did a 2 week one that really made it so I had low hours before and after). This one is dangerous because if you really screw it up, you could be too slow.

[notinbiglaw]

OP, you need to start choosing who you want to work for/succeed. This happens in other industries too.

[Anonymous User]

Rising 3rd year in similar situation as OP. Bumping this to refresh and get new tips/advice. Still at first firm (nyc not v10). Billed ~1650 first year and was told I was doing good job but to up my hours (but average for my class was below 1800 so it was just a firm-wide thing). About to finish my second year in December with ~1800-1850 hours this year. I'm hoping this is good enough to still get me no serious talk. Plan is to then stick around for as long as I can as a third year (and hopefully until January 2021) before rinsing and repeating. Lateral market seems pretty ripe so I haven't been worried about job security (and leaving law wouldn't be the worst thing if I was to have no options). I've seen a lot of associates on linked in who have been at 3 biglaw firms by the time they are a fifth year and I feel like the ramp up/down period really helps in longevity too.

I'd love to make it up to 5th year just billing 1800/hrs a year. My strategy has been to be pretty responsive and good on the deals I take on but since it's free market, I turn down work when I'm either really busy or it's a shitty assignment (i.e. you won't find me picking up a call on fri afternoon from someone I'm not on a deal with). A lot of staffing is done by mid levels or senior associates on deals, so I make sure I do a good job and make their life easier when I am on deals with them so they will think of me on the next one. Avoid working directly with partners on lean teams particularly where I know they are not good to work for.

I'm pretty much in it for the money at this point. Save like 80% of my paycheck post taxes. Sure I would love to go in-house but I've quickly realized that legal work, no matter where, is just boring.

Edited to add: another tip I recommend is to get a 6-9 month secondment. Get paid biglaw salary while fucking off at a 9-5 at the client. My understanding is that firms give this to people who need a break. I'm hesitant to broach the topic with any partners though because my hours aren't really high where I "need" a break.

Edited to further add: Strategic vacations help. I could definitely have hit 2200 this year but I spaced out vacations every quarter (and did a 2 week one that really made it so I had low hours before and after). This one is dangerous because if you really screw it up, you could be too slow.

Great post, I'm doing something similar. How much are you hoping to have saved at the end? What will you do post biglaw?

[Anonymous User]

OP, you need to start choosing who you want to work for/succeed. This happens in other industries too.

Thank you for the input. I agree with you in principal but in reality I am not sure how to exactly put this into process. Some people have found their passion and gone on to teaching or coding or whatever outside of the law. Some people have gone in-house and enjoy that. What I do know for a fact is that I don't find biglaw enjoyable. I don't know if the problem is law in general but I am too junior to go in house now and also I practice finance...so...you already know what that means if you're in big law or have read these boards. I have considered trying to switch paths to EC/VC or something that seems "sexy" in principal but it's certainly an uphill battle for me at this point, and even switching to general corporate or capital markets seems quite daunting.

Great post, I'm doing something similar. How much are you hoping to have saved at the end? What will you do post biglaw?

Thank you! Problem is I am not sure what is next. It depends on when I exit from big law (or am forced to). I'll have half a million dollars in investments and no debt if I make it to January 2021 (and assuming we don't see a 30-40% correction in the market in that period).

[Anonymous User]

Former striver (as a 1st-3rd year), now a midlevel with no designs on making partner. Litigation at a V40. Given some plausible exit options I should have in the next 2+ years, I basically just want to survive at $255 and $280 on the following terms:

-Bill on average 140 hours/month, which should keep me under the radar enough for the next review cycle. Assuming no cripplingly negative feedback, rinse and repeat.
-Turn down every new assignment that comes (a) in on a Friday afternoon or (b) from partners who suck to work for. Not going to just do this if I'm busy; I'm legit going to do it even if I'm on pace for my target 140-hour months. My excuse won't be that I'm globally busy, but I'll listen to the basic contours of the assignment and ask about the deadline before vouching that I've got something big due for a partner in another office during that timeframe. I've been burned before too many times when I cared, and now that I DGAF, there's absolutely no reason to spend one more minute risking multiple torpedoed weekends for a shitty experience/review at the end of it.
-Work remotely every other Friday, full stop. Be accessible to a degree when working remotely, but not checking my phone every 15 minutes.
-Take a 2-week international vacation in each of the next 2 years. Gladly put my OOO message up and not answer any emails during those vacations. Also get in some extended weekend domestic trips (Labor Day, July 4, etc.).
-Never volunteer on a multiple-recipient email asking for someone to help.
-2 months out from the hours cutoff, evaluate whether I've exceeded my 140/hour month goal to the point where I'm within striking distance (~400-450 hours) of a bonus. If not, continue with 140/hour month goal and don't worry. If within 450 hours of bonus target, load up on a detained asylum or other short fuse/high hours pro bono project (firm is generous with pro bono credit) or some BS doc review project for a big investigation (plenty of these in my group) and squeak in above the hours minimum for my bonus.

[thisismytlsuername]

-Work remotely every other Friday, full stop. Be accessible to a degree when working remotely, but not checking my phone every 15 minutes.

LOL this is not "working remotely." This is just taking a day off. This is why boomer partners don't trust people to work remotely.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

-Work remotely every other Friday, full stop. Be accessible to a degree when working remotely, but not checking my phone every 15 minutes.

LOL this is not "working remotely." This is just taking a day off. This is why boomer partners don't trust people to work remotely.

How is this not working remotely? As long as you are doing work and accessible (which it sounds like OP is still accessible, maybe just not checking emails as often as needed) why does it matter that you are at home?

[Anonymous User]

Former striver (as a 1st-3rd year), now a midlevel with no designs on making partner. Litigation at a V40. Given some plausible exit options I should have in the next 2+ years, I basically just want to survive at $255 and $280 on the following terms:

Pretty good strategy. Also awesome because you've banked enough goodwill as a striver junior to now get by.

Would love to hear more tips, especially corporate associates or associates who have lateraled firms and what their experience has been with respect to coasting big law.

I'll add another one. Strategically sit on documents even when draft is done. Look busy at nigh responding to emails even if you didn't do things 7-9pm. People will just think you're super busy on other matters but still working really hard since you're sending 10pm emails.

[nixy]

-Work remotely every other Friday, full stop. Be accessible to a degree when working remotely, but not checking my phone every 15 minutes.

LOL this is not "working remotely." This is just taking a day off. This is why boomer partners don't trust people to work remotely.

What part of "working" is "taking a day off"?

[thisismytlsuername]

-Work remotely every other Friday, full stop. Be accessible to a degree when working remotely, but not checking my phone every 15 minutes.

LOL this is not "working remotely." This is just taking a day off. This is why boomer partners don't trust people to work remotely.

How is this not working remotely? As long as you are doing work and accessible (which it sounds like OP is still accessible, maybe just not checking emails as often as needed) why does it matter that you are at home?

He/she literally said "accessible to a degree...not checking my phone every 15 minutes." If you are actually working remotely, you'd be logged in remotely and would be as accessible as you are in the office and not need to check your phone to see emails. You'd see the emails on your computer since you're logged in remotely.

[thisismytlsuername]

-Work remotely every other Friday, full stop. Be accessible to a degree when working remotely, but not checking my phone every 15 minutes.

LOL this is not "working remotely." This is just taking a day off. This is why boomer partners don't trust people to work remotely.

What part of "working" is "taking a day off"?

What part of being "accessible to a degree" is "working"?

[nixy]

-Work remotely every other Friday, full stop. Be accessible to a degree when working remotely, but not checking my phone every 15 minutes.

LOL this is not "working remotely." This is just taking a day off. This is why boomer partners don't trust people to work remotely.

What part of "working" is "taking a day off"?

What part of being "accessible to a degree" is "working"?

Your idea of work is a little different from mine.

Edit: like, I get the point about being logged in remotely/accessible, and I get the argument they need to be more accessible, but if they're doing work, they're not actually taking the day off. And the whole point of this discussion is how to coast and avoid getting work that makes your life miserable.

[Anonymous User]

I feel like I've coasted for the majority of my time in biglaw (4th year). The key is to lie all the time. Lie about anything and everything in order to make your life easier. If you're at a firm with little to no bureaucracy in terms of staffing and you aren't lying about your workload, you're an idiot.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

It’s a very good idea to Costanza. Always go around the office looking stressed out and when people talk to you just look miserable.

[barkschool]

Love the strivers that pop in the middle of this thread.

ala “definitely not possible at MY FIRM, WE have a ton of work to go around and you are going to get staffed on it if YOU are not busy and WE see it.”

[notinbiglaw]

Occasional complaints about spinning your wheels and wasting some time that can't be billed help a lot with looking busy.

[TUwave]

It’s a very good idea to Costanza. Always go around the office looking stressed out and when people talk to you just look miserable.

Costanza has yet to steer me wrong in life, and biglaw is no exception.

[UnfrozenCaveman]

Probably the best thread on these message boards.

[OneTwoThreeFour]

It’s a very good idea to Costanza. Always go around the office looking stressed out and when people talk to you just look miserable.

Costanza has yet to steer me wrong in life, and biglaw is no exception.

When I finally get "THE TALK" I'm just going to keep showing up and pretending like nothing has happened. Has anyone gotten any weird passive aggressive comments re: working from home? I've gotten away with doing it like 2 days/week without any issues. Key to the coasting lifestyle.

There's some real 180 ideas in here y'all, keep 'em coming.

[notinbiglaw]

Occasionally someone will show off about being a striver (I slept in office last week) but generally people don’t care as long as work is done. Partners don’t care as long as you get them billables.

And very soon you’ll know the other coasters whom you can ask: “has (name of some random partner that matters) left yet?”

[Person1111]

Occasionally someone will show off about being a striver (I slept in office last week) but generally people don’t care as long as work is done. Partners don’t care as long as you get them billables.

And very soon you’ll know the other coasters whom you can ask: “has (name of some random partner that matters) left yet?”

FYI, I have worked for very few partners who seem to care about hours in a vacuum (and, in fact, many of them complain about associates who bill a lot of hours but don't do good work). They care that work gets done correctly and on time, which often translates to higher hours. But typically the view is that high hours are a sign that someone does good work, makes themselves available, and is in demand, while low hours signal the opposite.

[Best]

It’s a very good idea to Costanza. Always go around the office looking stressed out and when people talk to you just look miserable.

Costanza has yet to steer me wrong in life, and biglaw is no exception.

When I finally get "THE TALK" I'm just going to keep showing up and pretending like nothing has happened. Has anyone gotten any weird passive aggressive comments re: working from home? I've gotten away with doing it like 2 days/week without any issues. Key to the coasting lifestyle.

There's some real 180 ideas in here y'all, keep 'em coming.

Stuff like "I came by your office to talk to you about this, but I guess you're working remotely today." without any comment as to what they wanted to talk about or attempting to call me.

[LaLiLuLeLo]

Sometimes people will drop comments off on my desk knowing full well I’m not there. That’s fun. Just ask your secretary to scan it to me, ass.

[Elston Gunn]

Occasionally someone will show off about being a striver (I slept in office last week) but generally people don’t care as long as work is done. Partners don’t care as long as you get them billables.

And very soon you’ll know the other coasters whom you can ask: “has (name of some random partner that matters) left yet?”

FYI, I have worked for very few partners who seem to care about hours in a vacuum (and, in fact, many of them complain about associates who bill a lot of hours but don't do good work). They care that work gets done correctly and on time, which often translates to higher hours. But typically the view is that high hours are a sign that someone does good work, makes themselves available, and is in demand, while low hours signal the opposite.

Completely agree with this. Will vary by firm, but in my group I’m almost certain most if not all of the partners don’t even look at hours unless they have a very good reason. Eg, I have juuuuust squeaked by the bonus threshold every year, and yet I somehow have a reputation for working very hard/always being busy.