How to Coast in Biglaw Forum

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:35 am

Elston Gunn wrote:
hlsperson1111 wrote:
notinbiglaw wrote:Occasionally someone will show off about being a striver (I slept in office last week) but generally people don’t care as long as work is done. Partners don’t care as long as you get them billables.

And very soon you’ll know the other coasters whom you can ask: “has (name of some random partner that matters) left yet?”
FYI, I have worked for very few partners who seem to care about hours in a vacuum (and, in fact, many of them complain about associates who bill a lot of hours but don't do good work). They care that work gets done correctly and on time, which often translates to higher hours. But typically the view is that high hours are a sign that someone does good work, makes themselves available, and is in demand, while low hours signal the opposite.
Completely agree with this. Will vary by firm, but in my group I’m almost certain most if not all of the partners don’t even look at hours unless they have a very good reason. Eg, I have juuuuust squeaked by the bonus threshold every year, and yet I somehow have a reputation for working very hard/always being busy.
I recently left big law. Although it depends on the physical layout of your office, I found the best way to get by with doing the bare minimum was to come in late and stay later than most everyone. Around this time last year during my review, a partner said something to the effect of, "I'm surprised your hours are just barely enough. You're always here as late as I am."

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by notinbiglaw » Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:39 pm

Just to be clear, you still have to get your work done correctly and on time so partners want your time.

The trick is to create some dead time for yourself. If you don't, partners who like your work will try to make your every waking hour a productive (aka billable) one.

Some low bandwidth wheel-spinning that's not billable works. Coming in late and leaving late works. Occasional remote work. Occasional staffing on other groups where you can realistically claim to take more time than is typical due to unfamiliarity works. Putting an email delay works (so if you finish "early" around 11pm, put a delay and ship that out around 2am. But don't bill for 11pm to 2am obviously. That's just unethical.)

Bottomline is you have to establish a baseline of competence so partners want your time. Then it's up to you to manage your hours so you can meet billable targets (and not have it be an issue during reviews) and still deter partners from overstaffing you.

None of this works of course if you're gunning for 2400+ billables to fast track yourself to partnership of course. At that point, there isn't physically enough time in a year for artificial dead time.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:24 pm

I coasted the last six months at my firm as a mid-level before going in-house. I was corporate and had billed over 2,400 hours the year before and had good reviews so had some built up goodwill. I basically avoided taking on more than a couple deals at one time. Filled my time with one-off projects and pro bono that was not urgent. Didn't seek out work unless I was billing less than 20 hours a week multiple weeks in a row. I was on pace for less than 1,400 hours and right before I went in-house, the assigning partner asked why my hours were so low. This wasn't the talk or anything, he was super nice and even tried to get me on a couple deals after that to get my hours up, but I think I'd have been in trouble if I had stayed all year long at that pace. So I think it depends on your definition of coasting. I think in big law especially after your first or second year, it is really hard to last more than a year billing less than 1,700 hours. I would only do that if you were like me and knew you were going to be leaving within the year. Billing 1800 or 1900 hours to me doesn't sound like coasting. Obviously coming in later and delaying responses makes the job a little better, but that isn't the same as coasting

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:22 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I coasted the last six months at my firm as a mid-level before going in-house. I was corporate and had billed over 2,400 hours the year before and had good reviews so had some built up goodwill. I basically avoided taking on more than a couple deals at one time. Filled my time with one-off projects and pro bono that was not urgent. Didn't seek out work unless I was billing less than 20 hours a week multiple weeks in a row. I was on pace for less than 1,400 hours and right before I went in-house, the assigning partner asked why my hours were so low. This wasn't the talk or anything, he was super nice and even tried to get me on a couple deals after that to get my hours up, but I think I'd have been in trouble if I had stayed all year long at that pace. So I think it depends on your definition of coasting. I think in big law especially after your first or second year, it is really hard to last more than a year billing less than 1,700 hours. I would only do that if you were like me and knew you were going to be leaving within the year. Billing 1800 or 1900 hours to me doesn't sound like coasting. Obviously coming in later and delaying responses makes the job a little better, but that isn't the same as coasting
This could also have been legitimate concern. Once you know who speaks for you at the partnership/ practice group meeting, you literally can do no wrong.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jan 12, 2020 12:42 pm

Bump now that 2019 is over. How did your coasting go? I hit about 1950, NYC I don't have any visibility in how much the rest of my class billed but I think average at the firm is likely over 2000 and probably closer to 2200. Class of 2017. Should I be worried or can I make it one more year?

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by MillllerTime » Sun Jan 12, 2020 3:04 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Bump now that 2019 is over. How did your coasting go? I hit about 1950, NYC I don't have any visibility in how much the rest of my class billed but I think average at the firm is likely over 2000 and probably closer to 2200. Class of 2017. Should I be worried or can I make it one more year?
Can't imagine anyone is going to push out a 3rd year at 1950. Maybe you get a talking to that the firm would like you to bill more and worst case an official warning about low hours (though that seems crazy for anyone above 1800), but I think you can safely coast on. Of course maybe the economy falters and you're one of the first to go, but that would be precipitated by slow times and probably not going to result in your paycheck stopping before end of 2020.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Sun Jan 12, 2020 7:50 pm

MillllerTime wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bump now that 2019 is over. How did your coasting go? I hit about 1950, NYC I don't have any visibility in how much the rest of my class billed but I think average at the firm is likely over 2000 and probably closer to 2200. Class of 2017. Should I be worried or can I make it one more year?
Can't imagine anyone is going to push out a 3rd year at 1950. Maybe you get a talking to that the firm would like you to bill more and worst case an official warning about low hours (though that seems crazy for anyone above 1800), but I think you can safely coast on. Of course maybe the economy falters and you're one of the first to go, but that would be precipitated by slow times and probably not going to result in your paycheck stopping before end of 2020.
Awesome, to be honest, I have aggressively turned down work from multiple partners in 2019 (when I've been busy or some assignments I just did not want to take on because I knew they would suck) and it was hard each time I did it. I would have easily been at 2200-2300 this year because there was certainly enough work. But if they're not going to do anything since I'm still making the firm money and I imagine a bunch of people in my class and above will quit Q1 after bonuses, I think I will continue this strategy. I mean is the worst thing that can happen is that my work will dry up when times are slow as people won't want to work with me? If that is the case, I would at least see the writing on the wall and have like 2-3 months lead time of being dangerously slow right? I'm not so scared of losing the job but I just don't want it to be sudden and I'm caught with no backup plan.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Wild Card » Sun Jan 12, 2020 8:44 pm

Anonymous User wrote:Bump now that 2019 is over. How did your coasting go? I hit about 1950, NYC I don't have any visibility in how much the rest of my class billed but I think average at the firm is likely over 2000 and probably closer to 2200. Class of 2017. Should I be worried or can I make it one more year?
lol 1950 is very respectable. It's the bonus eligibility cutoff at some V50 law firms. How is that "coasting?"

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by JusticeSquee » Sun Jan 12, 2020 10:13 pm

Wild Card wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bump now that 2019 is over. How did your coasting go? I hit about 1950, NYC I don't have any visibility in how much the rest of my class billed but I think average at the firm is likely over 2000 and probably closer to 2200. Class of 2017. Should I be worried or can I make it one more year?
lol 1950 is very respectable. It's the bonus eligibility cutoff at some V50 law firms. How is that "coasting?"
1950 comes out to about 39/hr weeks with about 2 weeks of vacation. I think that can be defined as coasting for sure. I mean anything lower than 1700 at a V50 in NYC and you’re likely going to be put on the chopping block. So there’s not much margin to coast.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by QContinuum » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:22 am

Wild Card wrote:lol 1950 is very respectable. It's the bonus eligibility cutoff at some V50 law firms. How is that "coasting?"
I agree that 1950 is very respectable. Bonus eligibility cutoffs generally range from 1800-2000, as I understand it, and many firms have bonus eligibility thresholds at or lower than 1950.

In my view, however, anon is right to be concerned because they have "aggressively turned down work from multiple partners", including "some assignments [they] just did not want to take on because [they] knew they would suck" (i.e., anon had capacity, but said no anyway). That's where the "coasting" comes in. It's not the raw hours that are the problem, but the aggressive saying no when they actually had capacity.

That said, unless a repeat of '08 happens and mass layoffs are conducted, I doubt anon would be let go with zero warning. Firms are generally fairly slow to fire folks. At the least, anon would be given a clear heads-up to shape up asap, followed by a few months to right the ship. That said, I could see a firm deciding to shorten anon's "runway" if they continue aggressively turning down work even after the talk.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jan 13, 2020 12:38 am

The problem isn't 1950 billable hours, which is objectively fine (and would be well above average at my firm). The problem is that it's not quite enough to "aggressively" turn down work, unless the distribution is really bizarre (like a bunch of 100 hour months and some 250-300 hour months mixed in) and you just got asked at the right time. It's particularly problematic if you are in fact correct that the average is 2200-2300, although that strikes me as a very high average at most firms.

Ultimately if you are really good, liked by key partners, and/or one of a handful of associates at your general level in your group, you can get away with this for quite a while. But if you're at a big NYC sweatshop with a ton of associates who are billing a lot of hours, your situation is a bit less sustainable.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by MillllerTime » Mon Jan 13, 2020 6:49 pm

Anonymous User wrote:The problem isn't 1950 billable hours, which is objectively fine (and would be well above average at my firm). The problem is that it's not quite enough to "aggressively" turn down work, unless the distribution is really bizarre (like a bunch of 100 hour months and some 250-300 hour months mixed in) and you just got asked at the right time. It's particularly problematic if you are in fact correct that the average is 2200-2300, although that strikes me as a very high average at most firms.

Ultimately if you are really good, liked by key partners, and/or one of a handful of associates at your general level in your group, you can get away with this for quite a while. But if you're at a big NYC sweatshop with a ton of associates who are billing a lot of hours, your situation is a bit less sustainable.
This is a weird conundrum for a firm: "All our associates are slammed, let's fire the one not pulling all of their weight" doesn't seem like a likely response, at least not short term. I agree with the sentiment in here that major firms aren't laying off profitable associates with any kind of urgency. Maybe they eventually replace you with laterals, but I think 95% of firms give a warning first in that scenario.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by barkschool » Tue Feb 04, 2020 2:24 pm

MillllerTime wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Bump now that 2019 is over. How did your coasting go? I hit about 1950, NYC I don't have any visibility in how much the rest of my class billed but I think average at the firm is likely over 2000 and probably closer to 2200. Class of 2017. Should I be worried or can I make it one more year?
Can't imagine anyone is going to push out a 3rd year at 1950. Maybe you get a talking to that the firm would like you to bill more and worst case an official warning about low hours (though that seems crazy for anyone above 1800), but I think you can safely coast on. Of course maybe the economy falters and you're one of the first to go, but that would be precipitated by slow times and probably not going to result in your paycheck stopping before end of 2020.
The above quoted should probably be read as sarcasm.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Jun 22, 2020 4:24 pm

Bumping. Curious how this has gone given COVID.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Lestersandy » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:23 pm

Still coasting. Prob gonna ride it out another year.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:45 pm

Has anyone actually ever been laid off for billing 1800 hours or is this all lawyers getting in their own minds.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Lestersandy » Fri Nov 13, 2020 12:09 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:45 pm
Has anyone actually ever been laid off for billing 1800 hours or is this all lawyers getting in their own minds.
No

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:14 am

I'm a rising 4th year who hit 2400 for this year's hours (based on my firm's calendar) and has no intention of staying any longer than collecting the bonus 13 months from now. So, I think it's time to coast. Any tips for people like me who have been overachieving and are considered strong associates (I think - or at least, high billing associates) to gracefully slink toward mediocrity and enjoy better work-life balance for a year before leaving biglaw?

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Lestersandy » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:27 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:14 am
I'm a rising 4th year who hit 2400 for this year's hours (based on my firm's calendar) and has no intention of staying any longer than collecting the bonus 13 months from now. So, I think it's time to coast. Any tips for people like me who have been overachieving and are considered strong associates (I think - or at least, high billing associates) to gracefully slink toward mediocrity and enjoy better work-life balance for a year before leaving biglaw?
Turn down work. Turn off email/phone past a certain time. Don’t be so eager. Be comfortable with it. Pour a drink. Collect bonus. Coast. Enjoy.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 13, 2020 9:58 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:14 am
I'm a rising 4th year who hit 2400 for this year's hours (based on my firm's calendar) and has no intention of staying any longer than collecting the bonus 13 months from now. So, I think it's time to coast. Any tips for people like me who have been overachieving and are considered strong associates (I think - or at least, high billing associates) to gracefully slink toward mediocrity and enjoy better work-life balance for a year before leaving biglaw?
It’s so much easier to coast as a mid level with a good reputation.

Delegate work aggressively. Someone asks you to turn edits? Send it to the junior. (Also, treat your juniors well and invest time in them. They do better work this way, and honestly, I don’t mind shooting the shit with a junior to explain their mistakes/why they should have done things another way. Would rather do this than do work myself). Use Document Services for tedious shit like formatting issues. Use your assistant or the Filing Department for all filings, never handle this shit yourself.

if you get most of your work from a handful of partners, turn down work from people other than your main sources.

if you get a request from a non equity partner or counsel, turn down that work

Turn down all non billable work. I am categorically not available for and not interested in non billable and biz dev. (My firm doesn’t like / push pro Bono so this isn’t something I have to turn down). If an email goes out to multiple people asking for a volunteer, don’t respond (an email to multiple people is a free pass not to respond).

Embrace quick passes and rely on your knowledge. If someone tells you they think the answer is X but can you please check (and you’re also comfortable that the answer is X), just spend enough time researching to confirm that it looks right. You don’t have to read every case or even more than a handful of cases. “After a brief review, the precedent consistently says X is correct. See, eg, smith v Jones...)

Don’t respond to emails on weekends unless the email specifically requests a weekend response or your not responding would interfere with a deadline (eg getting a draft to the client). Or, at most, just say “will do” and do it on Monday.

Don’t apologize for delayed responses or for turning down work. Just say “I’m not available for that matter” or “another matter is occupying my time.” It doesn’t matter if the other matter is Netflix. The partners invariably don’t care and will forget your response in five mins when they move on to asking the next associate (remember that you’re fungible).

Don’t feel that you have to take on work if you’re not billing 8-10 hours a day. If anyone ever remembers you turned something down and asks why in this situation, just say you expected another matter to blow up and it ultimately didn’t materialize. Again, no need to offer specific details because nobody cares.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Lestersandy » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:34 am

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:14 am
(remember that you’re fungible).
V important point. More people need to keep this in mind.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:55 am

As a first year, I was hyper connected and responsive. I got a good reputation for it. Then I started hearing partners refer to me as a “grinder” who gets stuff done and started being staffed on several “grinder” “ASAP” assignments with a few partners. Stellar rep, and partners would protect me from staffing with partners I didn’t like if I asked for it (and in fact some partners would end up calling each other arguing over who I should focus on for that night’s all nighter). This is a bad thing.

Realizing the direction and the burnout as I rounded the end of my second year, I interviewed at other firms for specialist groups and asked to switch to a specialist group in my firm. The partners tried to talk me out of it, but I did.

In the specialist group I work with one (very sane, nearly even sane by normal standards) partner and senior associate. I am a mid level. When I get pinged, I will occasionally purposely wait half an hour even to acknowledge the ping. If it’s work that I know I can do in 15 minutes, I’ll sometimes take an hour before turning to it unless it’s clearly important. When something is, the team knows they have to say “please do ASAP” and they’ll get it ASAP. Otherwise they won’t. I will make substantive errors (never intentionally) but make sure I never make a typo (albeit in internal emails I am very typo prone — Woops).

End result: I am now in the rare position of actually liking my biglaw job and I could see myself hanging out indefinitely making 300k-500k if they’ll keep me (but I would never make the push for partner — no way in hell). And if they want to fire me, it’ll take them a couple more years and I’ll be senior enough to snag something enviable in house.

Tldr: be purposely slow to respond (but not to a fault), make sure you never have a typo in a work product, and don’t become the “hard working grinder” person. Then hang around and leave when you want to. You’ll still end up pulling a shitload of all nighters and deal with stupid biglaw shit (it’s like being in exam week but 50 weeks a year), but it’ll be much more manageable than otherwise. Also always take all your vacation and absolutely refuse to compromise on it — as a junior I took a full week a quarter unapologetically, even when some partners made off hand comments about me “being on vacation again.”

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Fri Nov 13, 2020 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Fri Nov 13, 2020 10:55 am
As a first year, I was hyper connected and responsive. I got a good reputation for it. Then I started hearing partners refer to me as a “grinder” who gets stuff done and started being staffed on several “grinder” “ASAP” assignments with a few partners. Stellar rep, and partners would protect me from staffing with partners I didn’t like if I asked for it (and in fact some partners would end up calling each other arguing over who I should focus on for that night’s all nighter). This is a bad thing.

Realizing the direction and the burnout as I rounded the end of my second year, I interviewed at other firms for specialist groups and asked to switch to a specialist group in my firm. The partners tried to talk me out of it, but I did.

In the specialist group I work with one (very sane, nearly even sane by normal standards) partner and senior associate. I am a mid level. When I get pinged, I will occasionally purposely wait half an hour even to acknowledge the ping. If it’s work that I know I can do in 15 minutes, I’ll sometimes take an hour before turning to it unless it’s clearly important. When something is, the team knows they have to say “please do ASAP” and they’ll get it ASAP. Otherwise they won’t. I will make substantive errors (never intentionally) but make sure I never make a typo (albeit in internal emails I am very typo prone — Woops).

End result: I am now in the rare position of actually liking my biglaw job and I could see myself hanging out indefinitely making 300k-500k if they’ll keep me (but I would never make the push for partner — no way in hell). And if they want to fire me, it’ll take them a couple more years and I’ll be senior enough to snag something enviable in house.

Tldr: be purposely slow to respond (but not to a fault), make sure you never have a typo in a work product, and don’t become the “hard working grinder” person. Then hang around and leave when you want to. You’ll still end up pulling a shitload of all nighters and deal with stupid biglaw shit (it’s like being in exam week but 50 weeks a year), but it’ll be much more manageable than otherwise. Also always take all your vacation and absolutely refuse to compromise on it — as a junior I took a full week a quarter unapologetically, even when some partners made off hand comments about me “being on vacation again.”
+1 to switching to a specialist group making your life immeasurably better. M&A is a special layer of BigLaw hell, while specialist groups can be sustainable indefinitely.

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:31 pm

So, my goal is to survive until summer then get severance. Soon to be 2nd year corp associate at sweatshop. Already talked to about hours early 2020 bc of slow months. Had a rough review, but still getting bonus. How long can a 2nd year coast with minimal work before being pushed out? Been pushing back against BS work, but trying to last 6 months with 120 or less a month. Can it be done?

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Re: How to Coast in Biglaw

Post by M458 » Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:01 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Thu Dec 24, 2020 10:31 pm
So, my goal is to survive until summer then get severance. Soon to be 2nd year corp associate at sweatshop. Already talked to about hours early 2020 bc of slow months. Had a rough review, but still getting bonus. How long can a 2nd year coast with minimal work before being pushed out? Been pushing back against BS work, but trying to last 6 months with 120 or less a month. Can it be done?
When is your next review/check-in? If you've already been spoken to about hours and had a "rough review", very possible you get pushed out at the next one and get 2-3 months severance at that next review/check-in. Very likely that you could make it another 6 months like this (3 months until the "talk", 3 months severance), but I wouldn't really count on much longer.

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