Need Honest Advice Regarding Current Employment - Help Forum

[Anonymous User]

That's a kind offer but I can guarantee we don't live in the same city. Law of averages dictate we would've met by now lol

[1styearlateral]

OP said bottom 5 states not just locales, which is usually along the lines of Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas and that would explain the culture issues if he/she isn't a southerner.

Bingo.

-OP

Damn. I guess you don't like crawfish that much. Generally, from my experience, things move much more slowly down south than in the northeast. I kinda like that, but can def see how someone who is used to being on the edge 24/7 could feel trapped.

I agree with the posters saying that bar passage will help in landing a new job in a new jurisdiction... unless you're patent pro, I can't see a firm selecting you over someone who is licensed already.

[zhenders]

Happiness is important. Seek it, mate.

I grew up in the South; I actually am pretty sure I know where you're at judging from your posts and statistics, and I have experience there in particular (though not in the law firm context). I can't recommend enough that you think about the kinds of people you wish you could meet and connect with there, then think about the kinds of things those folks enjoy. One thing that I learned very quickly is that once you find that amazing group of people/friends, your world can almost immediately change for the better -- but they're hard to find unless you're really looking.

It sounds like right now, you have nothing to look forward to after work or for your weekends. I get that -- but you've gotta change that, and you can. Judging from your posts, it sounds like you're missing companionship with interested (and interesting) young people, like the kinds of friends you probably made in undergrad and law school. It's true that most of them end up going elsewhere -- but enough of them are still around if you know where to look. This may be completely off base, but you remind me of how I felt when I was stuck living in Hot Springs, Arkansas for a bit: more-or-less starved for a few friends who could see past their noses.

Look up board game groups, volunteer organizations that fit your interests, local civic theater, and/or any other kinds of things you find mildly interesting (and more importantly which might include the kinds of people you want to meet). You'll never meet them at your firm -- you know that. You're trapped in a bubble. But even in your city, there are great people. You're just going to have to find them; they'll never find you, bud.

All of this said, whether the above is long-term or just stop-gap, if I were in your shoes I'd definitely be looking all over the country with a mind for those cities I think I'd really enjoy living. Happiness >>>> literally everything else.

Best of luck mate.

[JusticeJackson]

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[Slickrick90]

This is a little off topic, but what makes me happy is a good hobby. I love picking up something that's super difficult to begin with but gets easier with time. That way you're building toward a skill set. I also love hobbies that keep you in shape. So far I have picked up skiing, surfing, rock climbing, skateboarding, and biking. Each time I started a new hobby it was because my old hobby wasn't available in my new city and the new city had the opportunity to do the new hobby. Others I've seen people get into are hiking, golfing, crossfit, and kayaking.

I'm honestly a better and much happier person when I can work at my hobby 4 or more times a week. And I'm super proud when I can finally look like an expert at something that used to seem impossibly difficult.

I think that makes sense. The problem is that if the hobbies you like are say warm weather things and half the year is spent in a polar vortex or vice versa you are stuck in Phoenix while you love winter sports and cold weather. While it is important to try new things, it is also hard to like something you dislike.

[JusticeJackson]

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[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks everyone. I will try my best. I appreciate everyone's advice. I am going to find a new hobby, and I think it's going to be studying for another bar exam.

[Diplock1]

OP here. Thanks everyone. I will try my best. I appreciate everyone's advice. I am going to find a new hobby, and I think it's going to be studying for another bar exam.

Echoing people above, I'd try and find an exercise-related hobby as well. Helps with your general mental health, and might give you a chance to meet some people. Spending more time inside studying alone might not help too much.

[zot1]

Any place is (for the most part) livable with the right people near you. Unfortunately, leaving your college and law school network sucks. It sucks even more to go to a place where you don't know a soul. I know because I did this myself.

Anyway, I made new friends in a new city through a soccer league and pro bono work with the local bar. You can definitely make friends, but you'll have to put yourself out there a bit.

[deadpanic]

I am pretty sure I know what market you are working in, which only has a few "big law" firms (not truly Big Law in the traditional sense, but big for a small secondary market), and I do think your assessment is correct with the "lifers" statement. The thing is, these firms pick out a few T14 grads / Vandy / UTex to boost their prestige, but the actual coveted associates are those with ties that graduated summa or magna from the local state school from good families, or those from T14 / Vandy from there. It is extremely cliquish. And they are all married with spouses from there, with kids and all that.

I cannot put myself in your shoes, but if you want to get out, I would as soon as possible. That being said, I want to say the lifestyle as far as hours are concerned are much better here than a major market. Unless you go "all in" with the firm by billing out the ass and building a huge book of business, the partners will be the chosen few from the local schools with good family connections. That is the reality with the "big law" southern law firms that try to imitate the NYC big firm model.

[Anonymous User]

I am pretty sure I know what market you are working in, which only has a few "big law" firms (not truly Big Law in the traditional sense, but big for a small secondary market), and I do think your assessment is correct with the "lifers" statement. The thing is, these firms pick out a few T14 grads / Vandy / UTex to boost their prestige, but the actual coveted associates are those with ties that graduated summa or magna from the local state school from good families, or those from T14 / Vandy from there. It is extremely cliquish. And they are all married with spouses from there, with kids and all that.

I cannot put myself in your shoes, but if you want to get out, I would as soon as possible. That being said, I want to say the lifestyle as far as hours are concerned are much better here than a major market. Unless you go "all in" with the firm by billing out the ass and building a huge book of business, the partners will be the chosen few from the local schools with good family connections. That is the reality with the "big law" southern law firms that try to imitate the NYC big firm model.

I'm not the Op, but to be honest, this is how it works in most secondary markets outside of NYC, SF, LA. I worked in the Midwest in a secondary market and it was basically the same exact thing mentioned by the Op.

If you are in a transactional practice, it is definitely possible to "tread" water for a few years by billing the minimum and going to a cushy inhouse job.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Yeah it's incredibly cliquish here. Everyone is married and has a child, and that's including anyone even close to my age. I'm preparing for the bar exam while still refusing to learn hearsay.

And yeah, the hours honestly aren't bad. I work until 5:15 everyday. No big deal.

[AJordan]

What are your life goals? This seems to be a self-esteem/happiness issue masquerading as an employment issue. If you can figure out how to make your situation relevant to your highest life goals in your hierarchy then you will likely find some more happiness. There are many licensed professionals out there who may help you see things that you do not see yet. I was brought up in a family that focused much of its child rearing on reward/punishment models that fucked me up more or less. Learning how to manage that damage has been key to my happiness. I get that therapy isn't for everyone, but anecdotally my life has been better since I saw someone.

[Anonymous User]

Ok my guess is Detriot.

Maybe but market in Detroit is > $100K. OP said he's making less than six figs. Also eliminates St. Louis.

That isn't true. Some firms in Detroit start below 100k. Last I checked, Miller Canfield starts at 90 or 95k.

OP said bottom 5 states not just locales, which is usually along the lines of Alabama, Mississippi, Arkansas and that would explain the culture issues if he/she isn't a southerner.

OP, as others have said, keep your unhappiness to yourself. I would not go out looking at taking the bar in other states right now (maybe waving into DC is fine). Most firms will hire you and let you sit for the bar as a lateral so won't make a huge difference right now. Try to make your city more enjoyable and learn a lot so that you can be marketable in the future. Also, network, email and keep in contact with ppl in your desired market so that you can make that move at some point in the next couple years.

I disagree about not taking the bar. It is much easier getting a job in a new locale when you have the bar vs needing to take time off work to study and take the bar at your new employer. At the very least, it is a distraction at your new job. Furthermore, you only get one chance to make first impressions. You want to be able to go at it really hard in the beginning and not be distracted by taking a bar exam. It also puts a lot more pressure on you to take the bar when you need it to keep your job vs taking it for a job in the future.

Yes, but taking the bar right now would distract them from the job they have.

I want to add that some firms will pay for your bar prep and give you time off to take the bar after you relocate. I know my firm does this, but not all. So I wouldn't wait to send out resumes until you take a new bar, because you might get some firms that will help you with the process. Also talk to recruiters - lots of offices across the country are hiring junior associates as laterals because they are growing so much and under hired 3Ls.