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I have separately been labeled ENTJ on roughly a dozen personality tests, and have been told I am an "extreme ENJT," meaning that I am more ENJT than most ENJT's. I know the Myers-Briggs test is pseudo-science, but I suck at secretarial type work, which is most of what associates do. I've struggled to follow instructions my entire life, but have been successful with more generalized instructions that ask for a general result - win, answer the question, etc. but am terrible at tasks that require specific instructions I change. Before law school, I was fired from every job except for client-centered jobs in which I was quickly promoted. I assumed that meant I'd be great at law, but I didn't understand enough how the profession works. In similar fashion, I have an extensive disciplinary history for disregarding rules, which was somewhat mitigated by also having an extensive history of integrity and doing the right thing.

When I try to be more passive, I wind up being weird and disliked because I don't really understand any other way of thinking so I wind up becoming not ENJT, but nothing else. Essentially, I have no personality, and become completely useless. Is there anyone else with this personality (I know it's only ~1% of people) who have been able to succeed entry level in a team environment? And is there any book or perspective that would help me become passive? Right now, I am only aggressive or not aggressive, which is not passiveness. There's strength in passiveness, which I observe in other young people but do not how to replicate. I used to take pride in my personality, but worry I may never get to a point where it becomes a benefit because I suck at following.

Rural DA. Making all the calls, no supervision, no training, no support, making things up as you go, dealing with weirdo victims and defense attorney that say and do weird things and yo have to respond in real time. The only thing missing is the ability to think big thoughts, and what you're doing day to day can get repetitive. Source: an ENTJ who loved being a rural DA for a long time.

Or PD, honestly. Lots of PDs (or former ones) I know say the best part was throwing shit at the walls and seeing what stuck - prosecutors have a lot more rules to follow wrt things like disclosure and adhering to plea policies (depending where you are).

Myers-Briggs is unscientific garbage. You might as well ascribe your poor work history to your astrological sign. Rather than allowing some misguided sense of psychological determinism justify your lousy work performance, maybe you should try to emulate your successful coworkers or find a new line of work.

To be honest I agree that the Myers-Briggs argument is bullshit, but if you're bad at obeying specific directions/following the rules, you probably do need a different job.

andythefir wrote:Rural DA. Making all the calls, no supervision, no training, no support, making things up as you go, dealing with weirdo victims and defense attorney that say and do weird things and yo have to respond in real time. The only thing missing is the ability to think big thoughts, and what you're doing day to day can get repetitive. Source: an ENTJ who loved being a rural DA for a long time.

constitutional lawyer

If "I'll get fired again for the same thing" wasn't enough perspective and incentive at many of your pre-law jobs, law probably isn't going to turn out that differently (at least without a significant attitude adjustment).

To clarify a little bit, crappiness is relative. It's more that if your job is to transcribe something then one typo is going to immediately put you in the bottom 10%. If the job is to write a 40-page brief, the typo won't affect it as much. It's really more of an issue of placing myself in situations where my shortcomings won't matter as much. In terms of criminal defense work, that's great in theory but in reality there's a very strong correlation between crime and poverty. Although in theory, working to fight that is a great cause and wonderful, I really just want to go home, chill with my family, watch TV and leave abolishing classism and saving mankind to the suits in the Washington, Jesus and the Chicago Cubs.

I totally understand, OP, I'm a Capricorn so it's super hard for me to follow instructions too. Just like you, I've always refused to follow rules and have been fired from most of my pre-law school jobs, but I'm pretty sure that's just since my head line covers almost my entire palm, which obviously means that, unlike >99% of other young people, I can't just blindly follow pointless rules about how to format my work product or whether to wear pants. Whenever my boss gives me something outlandishly general like "answer this question" or "win" I can do it easily, since I already know how to answer most questions and win in most situations (I've been told by multiple phrenologists that I'm extremely high browed, so that makes sense), but when they're like "check this for typos," or "include a boilerplate disclosure based on this model," I just can't do it. I wish I could be a mindless secretary making 180k for secretarial work (which, despite having never worked as a lawyer, I'm pretty sure is what most associate work is like) but I just can't.

Anonymous User wrote:To clarify a little bit, crappiness is relative. It's more that if your job is to transcribe something then one typo is going to immediately put you in the bottom 10%. If the job is to write a 40-page brief, the typo won't affect it as much. It's really more of an issue of placing myself in situations where my shortcomings won't matter as much. In terms of criminal defense work, that's great in theory but in reality there's a very strong correlation between crime and poverty. Although in theory, working to fight that is a great cause and wonderful, I really just want to go home, chill with my family, watch TV and leave abolishing classism and saving mankind to the suits in the Washington, Jesus and the Chicago Cubs.

I mean, dude, that's great, but if what you like to do/do well in law isn't the kind of law that commands big salaries there may not be much you can do about that.

McGruff wrote:I totally understand, OP, I'm a Capricorn so it's super hard for me to follow instructions too. Just like you, I've always refused to follow rules and have been fired from most of my pre-law school jobs, but I'm pretty sure that's just since my head line covers almost my entire palm, which obviously means that, unlike >99% of other young people, I can't just blindly follow pointless rules about how to format my work product or whether to wear pants. Whenever my boss gives me something outlandishly general like "answer this question" or "win" I can do it easily, since I already know how to answer most questions and win in most situations (I've been told by multiple phrenologists that I'm extremely high browed, so that makes sense), but when they're like "check this for typos," or "include a boilerplate disclosure based on this model," I just can't do it. I wish I could be a mindless secretary making 180k for secretarial work (which, despite having never worked as a lawyer, I'm pretty sure is what most associate work is like) but I just can't.

Anonymous User wrote:It's really more of an issue of placing myself in situations where my shortcomings won't matter as much.

You're looking for a legal job, but it sounds like your ability to follow rules and possibly your attention to detail are lacking. That's kind of a tough row to hoe, particularly in any position where you'll be someone else's employee. You really should work to mitigate your worst tendencies and not define your abilities by your 'diagnosis' - you'll expand your employability immensely.

Yeah, almost no one likes to follow rules that seem tedious. People follow the dumb rules IN SPITE of them being stupid. This is why everyone strives to become the boss, or independently wealthy so they can make the rules instead of following them.

You snowflakes aren't all that special.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:To clarify a little bit, crappiness is relative. It's more that if your job is to transcribe something then one typo is going to immediately put you in the bottom 10%. If the job is to write a 40-page brief, the typo won't affect it as much. It's really more of an issue of placing myself in situations where my shortcomings won't matter as much. In terms of criminal defense work, that's great in theory but in reality there's a very strong correlation between crime and poverty. Although in theory, working to fight that is a great cause and wonderful, I really just want to go home, chill with my family, watch TV and leave abolishing classism and saving mankind to the suits in the Washington, Jesus and the Chicago Cubs.

I mean, dude, that's great, but if what you like to do/do well in law isn't the kind of law that commands big salaries there may not be much you can do about that.

"BUT WHY HASN'T SOMEONE CREATED THE PERFECT JOB FOR MEEEEEEEEE?"

No offense OP, but in my experience, people that constantly talk about these stupid personality tests, especially ENJTs, (1) love talking about how they are majorly ENJT, (2) weirdos, and are (3) overcompensating for something.

There are lawyers out there that are what you describe. They are usually solo practitioners and have been disciplined by the board of professional responsibility several times. I actually literally know a lawyer in town that incessantly talks about how she is soooo ENJT. She has been censured by the bar for missing crucial deadlines for clients.

It seems like you need to be your own boss, so I would suggest maybe being an entrepreneur since you win so much?

rcharter1978 wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:To clarify a little bit, crappiness is relative. It's more that if your job is to transcribe something then one typo is going to immediately put you in the bottom 10%. If the job is to write a 40-page brief, the typo won't affect it as much. It's really more of an issue of placing myself in situations where my shortcomings won't matter as much. In terms of criminal defense work, that's great in theory but in reality there's a very strong correlation between crime and poverty. Although in theory, working to fight that is a great cause and wonderful, I really just want to go home, chill with my family, watch TV and leave abolishing classism and saving mankind to the suits in the Washington, Jesus and the Chicago Cubs.

I mean, dude, that's great, but if what you like to do/do well in law isn't the kind of law that commands big salaries there may not be much you can do about that.

"BUT WHY HASN'T SOMEONE CREATED THE PERFECT JOB FOR MEEEEEEEEE?"

How can I be average but still make 180k?

How about you put on your big-boy pants and stop making excuses for wanting to be a special snowflake?

OP,

I wouldn't discredit Law as being a great option for ENTJ, I just don't think it is the top choice. I think the only legal career's that adds to the braggadocious tendencies of an ENTJ would be being a judge, high-level partner, or SCOTUS; none of which are likely for a long time, if ever. If you are gunning for those, but understand you'll have to be at the bottom then fine. If you are bad at following directions and don't want to potentially sit at the bottom for 10+ years I would consider a career in business. Find a niche, start your own company, do consulting if you like client based work. As an ENTJ I understand where you are coming from; I have struggled to even want to work sometimes because of having to be a follower. I've started a few "businesses" throughout my teenage years to avoid that fact. Nowadays I just don't mind following orders from my military background, and I tend to steer towards being more risk adverse as I've gotten older. Don't give up on your personality, embrace it. People will always call bullshit, or say you need to be a follower, or stay in line, but it's not always the case.