On Vacations Forum

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:14 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Depends what day of the week these days fall on. I book for 24th or christmas day. People work up to 23rd if its a weekday. (Also, people definitely work between christmas and new years, they just aren't in the office).
Different anon - I recently heard first years talking about vacations who were saying it looked really bad to "bail on the team" if you just took a vacation at the end of the year when you had met billables already.

My thought was: I was in the office between all of Christmas and New Year's last year. There wasn't anybody there. Yes, you still have to do your work but no one's going to care if you're on "vacation."

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Thu Oct 20, 2016 4:26 pm

I mean, even if you are somewhat bailing on your team, isn't it, at the end of the day, your life? Yeah you might offend some co-workers, but you shouldn't live your life worried about if others will be under a bit more pressure from your taking of a vacation.

They're co-workers, not your mom and dad. Vacations are allowed. It is inevitable that when one takes a vacation, others have to pick up slack. That's just how it works.

lawgirl111

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Re: On Vacations

Post by lawgirl111 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:27 am

How long should you wait to take a long weekend as a First Year/do First Years actually take week long vacations?

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:53 am

lawgirl111 wrote:How long should you wait to take a long weekend as a First Year/do First Years actually take week long vacations?
A first-year in my class took a long weekend four weeks after starting, Thursday through Monday, though he was available and working remotely.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2016 12:43 pm

So all you tell is your group/parnters in that group? Don't need to tell HR?

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Sat Oct 22, 2016 5:12 pm

I'm a new first year and planning a short vacation for 2 weeks from now. I started in early Sept. Maybe 4-5 days including the weekend. I little anxious about telling my supervisors but even though I know it'll be chill

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Lacepiece23

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Lacepiece23 » Sat Oct 22, 2016 10:31 pm

Anonymous User wrote:I'm a new first year and planning a short vacation for 2 weeks from now. I started in early Sept. Maybe 4-5 days including the weekend. I little anxious about telling my supervisors but even though I know it'll be chill
Yeah your supervisor won't care. And if you're not free market it's most likely fine. I'd just say that this wouldn't really fly at my firm, which is free market and I'm heavily dependent on senior associates for work. People do get upset when they see a first year who just started taking a vacation that quickly. Just honest advice. I know first years who did not take a day off their whole first year. I might be at more of a sweatshop firm though.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Oct 24, 2016 11:35 am

Lacepiece23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a new first year and planning a short vacation for 2 weeks from now. I started in early Sept. Maybe 4-5 days including the weekend. I little anxious about telling my supervisors but even though I know it'll be chill
Yeah your supervisor won't care. And if you're not free market it's most likely fine. I'd just say that this wouldn't really fly at my firm, which is free market and I'm heavily dependent on senior associates for work. People do get upset when they see a first year who just started taking a vacation that quickly. Just honest advice. I know first years who did not take a day off their whole first year. I might be at more of a sweatshop firm though.
Yeah I started October 2015 and haven't taken a vacation day yet. That's more just my personality than anything the firm requires though.

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Lacepiece23

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Lacepiece23 » Mon Oct 24, 2016 1:18 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Lacepiece23 wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:I'm a new first year and planning a short vacation for 2 weeks from now. I started in early Sept. Maybe 4-5 days including the weekend. I little anxious about telling my supervisors but even though I know it'll be chill
Yeah your supervisor won't care. And if you're not free market it's most likely fine. I'd just say that this wouldn't really fly at my firm, which is free market and I'm heavily dependent on senior associates for work. People do get upset when they see a first year who just started taking a vacation that quickly. Just honest advice. I know first years who did not take a day off their whole first year. I might be at more of a sweatshop firm though.
Yeah I started October 2015 and haven't taken a vacation day yet. That's more just my personality than anything the firm requires though.
Yeah, I'm not telling the poster not to do this, but if I'm a midlevel/senior that is supposed to be working with a new junior I'd be like wtf you're taking a vacation already? And I can see some people like us who didn't take vacations being a little upset that a junior was taking time during the stub year. But if there is no work to be done, then no one will care.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:07 pm

Honestly, I think people will get over it, unless you are just a bad junior. I had a weekend trip planned that I rescheduled 3 different times because of a closing and the closing got pushed a 4th time to the Monday after the trip was supposed to be. Decided to just go on my trip and let the other junior deal with closing. Granted, they weren't too happy with me, but we ended up becoming friends and they always knew I had their back if something like that happened with them. To me, its just unreasonable to put your entire life on hold (and the people around you) for a job (especially when you've tried to be more than flexible in planning).

At the end of the day, its about having each other's backs. Try to help people that are going on vacation and they will help you, that way life is better for everyone. Not going on vacation because you don't want piss people off will just lead to you being a miserable person and continuing the cycle of crazy assholes that get mad at this sort of thing. Try to step up for others when they get off and they should do the same for you.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Nylon » Mon Oct 24, 2016 2:56 pm

One of the best things you can do as a junior is find two or three others in your practice area and agree to cover each other's vacation. It might mean a very rough week here or there with your workload and someone else's and the vacationing person may still have to weigh in with the odd email because you lack prior deal knowledge, but it is the best thing I ever did. Make sure of course that the other associates are good at their job and that they won't screw you over and not reciprocate.

But all things being equal, partners don't care about this - in fact I found they were generally pretty pleased with me for having figured out my own cover and spending time before I went to get the replacement up to speed. I actively encourage juniors working for me to do this now. Otherwise this endless spiral to the bottom/burnout is even more depressing than is already inevitable.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:48 am

I am also planning to take a couple of days in a couple of weeks as a stub-year. There's additional circumstances/dynamics that would out me/my firm, but I really feel like it should be NBD. I'm in a secondary market ant people work from home allllllllllll the time. Still, really anxious nonetheless to tell people I'm taking a day already and so I've been putting off telling them a little bit.. I'll have been at the job for just about 2 months.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by dixiecupdrinking » Wed Oct 26, 2016 2:58 pm

Take vacation. Be proactive. Tell people you plan to take days off. Ask them if they have an issue with it and offer to be available or find coverage. If they say no it's fine (which they will) then take them at their word and put it out of your mind. Some people will swear they have no problem with it but later passive aggressively seem to hold it against you. These people will make biglaw unbearable if you let them. The only solution is to ignore them and let them silently stew in their own toxic judgment. The job is hard enough without ruining what personal time you get by worrying whether people are holding it against you.

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smallfirmassociate

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Re: On Vacations

Post by smallfirmassociate » Wed Oct 26, 2016 3:12 pm

This really depends on the office. I work for a no-vacation policy type of firm. A lot of the other attorneys do take extended vacations. For me, I'm not really organized enough. It's more trouble for me to clear my desk and get everything covered than it's worth. I prefer to just cut out for half-days, take a random day off in the middle of the week when the weather is nice and I want to do yardwork, stuff like that. Sometimes I'll take a couple of consecutive days off / do a long weekend with a short getaway, but it's rare. Don't think I've taken more than 3 business days off in a row in the past 3-4 years.

That works in the rhythm of my practice. It's more of a feel thing (and personality thing) than a rules thing, so it's hard to say what is acceptable in your firm without being there.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 26, 2016 4:41 pm

is it considered vacation to take like a friday off? or to work from out of state friday if you have to go home for a family wedding or some other family event?

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:24 pm

Anonymous User wrote:is it considered vacation to take like a friday off? or to work from out of state friday if you have to go home for a family wedding or some other family event?
Meaning does it count as a "vacation day" toward the yearly allotment? Good question, can someone weigh in? also curious

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Johann

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Johann » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:28 pm

talk to people in your group. its all group dependent. after i took a vacation, a partner i did not work with much told me multiple times when i saw him (and usually right off the bat even if unrelated) that he didnt take any vaacation in his first year. didnt matter because i cleared it with the people i primarily worked for, but yeah probably best to avoid situations like that that could pop up.

but partners/senior associates do hold grudges (see lacepiece above). i have never done any work for that partner since.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by umichman » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:49 pm

JohannDeMann wrote:talk to people in your group. its all group dependent. after i took a vacation, a partner i did not work with much told me multiple times when i saw him (and usually right off the bat even if unrelated) that he didnt take any vaacation in his first year. didnt matter because i cleared it with the people i primarily worked for, but yeah probably best to avoid situations like that that could pop up.

but partners/senior associates do hold grudges (see lacepiece above). i have never done any work for that partner since.
Was this a one day vacation liek the post just before this one or a true vacation?

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Johann

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Johann » Wed Oct 26, 2016 5:53 pm

umichman wrote:
JohannDeMann wrote:talk to people in your group. its all group dependent. after i took a vacation, a partner i did not work with much told me multiple times when i saw him (and usually right off the bat even if unrelated) that he didnt take any vaacation in his first year. didnt matter because i cleared it with the people i primarily worked for, but yeah probably best to avoid situations like that that could pop up.

but partners/senior associates do hold grudges (see lacepiece above). i have never done any work for that partner since.
Was this a one day vacation liek the post just before this one or a true vacation?
oh it was a 2 weekend and maybe 8 business day vaacation.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by jotarokujo » Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:53 pm

Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:01 pm
Capitol_Idea wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:We get unlimited vacation days
Aren't these unlimited vacation policies just another way for firms (or companies in general) to avoid having to pay out unused vacation days?
(Weeps slightly louder)
Having worked at firms that have both (small sample alert), people feel more comfortable taking vacation when you get a payout in the end versus "unlimited," which, yes, is an excuse to skirt vacation laws.
seems counterintuitive because if there's a payout, it's more acceptable to not take vacation because you at least get extra comp for not taking vacation. i would think without a payout, you are more incentivized to take a vacation because if you don't, you don't get extra comp

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Bosque

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Bosque » Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:15 am

jotarokujo wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:01 pm
Capitol_Idea wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:We get unlimited vacation days
Aren't these unlimited vacation policies just another way for firms (or companies in general) to avoid having to pay out unused vacation days?
(Weeps slightly louder)
Having worked at firms that have both (small sample alert), people feel more comfortable taking vacation when you get a payout in the end versus "unlimited," which, yes, is an excuse to skirt vacation laws.
seems counterintuitive because if there's a payout, it's more acceptable to not take vacation because you at least get extra comp for not taking vacation. i would think without a payout, you are more incentivized to take a vacation because if you don't, you don't get extra comp
You are looking at it from the perspective of the associate looking to take vacation, not the firm who has to pay it.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by elmar » Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:28 pm

Bosque wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:15 am
jotarokujo wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:01 pm
Capitol_Idea wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:We get unlimited vacation days
Aren't these unlimited vacation policies just another way for firms (or companies in general) to avoid having to pay out unused vacation days?
(Weeps slightly louder)
Having worked at firms that have both (small sample alert), people feel more comfortable taking vacation when you get a payout in the end versus "unlimited," which, yes, is an excuse to skirt vacation laws.
seems counterintuitive because if there's a payout, it's more acceptable to not take vacation because you at least get extra comp for not taking vacation. i would think without a payout, you are more incentivized to take a vacation because if you don't, you don't get extra comp
You are looking at it from the perspective of the associate looking to take vacation, not the firm who has to pay it.
I get the sense that 20 days of vacation is probably typical at biglaw firms? I'd be curious if more than a handful of associates at firms with "unlimited" vacation take that much, especially in multiple years. My sense it that the unlimited leave is not only intended to reduce vacation usage, but is quite effective in doing so.

On the other hand, if there's some heroic associate out there who decided to take 8-10 weeks of vacation their last year before quitting, it would be a real treat to hear about.

jotarokujo

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Re: On Vacations

Post by jotarokujo » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:17 pm

elmar wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:28 pm
Bosque wrote:
Tue Jun 15, 2021 11:15 am
jotarokujo wrote:
Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:53 pm
Anonymous User wrote:
Sun Oct 16, 2016 9:01 pm
Capitol_Idea wrote:
RaceJudicata wrote:
Capitol_Idea wrote:We get unlimited vacation days
Aren't these unlimited vacation policies just another way for firms (or companies in general) to avoid having to pay out unused vacation days?
(Weeps slightly louder)
Having worked at firms that have both (small sample alert), people feel more comfortable taking vacation when you get a payout in the end versus "unlimited," which, yes, is an excuse to skirt vacation laws.
seems counterintuitive because if there's a payout, it's more acceptable to not take vacation because you at least get extra comp for not taking vacation. i would think without a payout, you are more incentivized to take a vacation because if you don't, you don't get extra comp
You are looking at it from the perspective of the associate looking to take vacation, not the firm who has to pay it.
I get the sense that 20 days of vacation is probably typical at biglaw firms? I'd be curious if more than a handful of associates at firms with "unlimited" vacation take that much, especially in multiple years. My sense it that the unlimited leave is not only intended to reduce vacation usage, but is quite effective in doing so.

On the other hand, if there's some heroic associate out there who decided to take 8-10 weeks of vacation their last year before quitting, it would be a real treat to hear about.
right if you are at unlimited and take fewer than the market 20, you are basically getting undercomped. take those vacation days folks!

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:45 pm

Don't listen to anyone who tells you not to take a vacation in general (listen to trusted mentors who may suggest that you schedule it not to be gone during a known busy period, however).

When I started at my V10, the very well-liked midlevel mentors told us that we should try to take vacations in remote places where we would not have reliable Internet access. Ignore this, too, unless that's actually where you want to vacation. Every associate has much more opportunity to set reasonable boundaries than many realize. When you're gone, you're gone, and they will survive without you.

I am actually planning to take two lengthy vacations this year (most folks do one) because I didn't take any in 2020. I don't really care if that rubs anyone the wrong way, and if anyone wants to talk with me about it, I'd love to hear the bullshit that they'd try to use to justify me being wrong. I do good work and enough of it to hit hours, and I follow the firm's vacation policy - that's good enough for me.

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Re: On Vacations

Post by Anonymous User » Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:53 pm

I'm an income partner at a V50. Please take your vacation. I took multiple 2 to 3 week vacations in my career, and at least two one week vacations each year. Get your co-workers to cover for you and you cover for them.

The only thing that isn't cool is to get your co-workers to cover you during Thanksgiving or Christmas. Those are holidays for everyone and not fair for you to take advantage.

Seriously? What are you waiting for?

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