What should I do now? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Hello all.

I am looking for some honest advice here. I am a K-JD. Usually this forum has been very helpful here, and I have gotten some great advice from here before. Such great advice that I've been successful adhering to it. I am very confused and need some serious guidance. I am anxious and extremely worried and may fall into a loophole. My career counseling is not serious and wastes my time reading my resume over and over again. Thus, I need help from others, specifically those who have been in my shoes or are more experienced.

I transferred from a T4 to a T1 (ranked 40-50) within the same state my T4 was in. I did OCI at the T1. I received only three screeners. Today I was dinged by my last screener. Thus, I got no callbacks or anything. My OCI was all 100% preselect.

I always wanted to work in big law but have struck out. I cried, and cried, and cried all day today. I am not sure what to do now? Have I struck out of BigLaw for good? I mass mailed a lot and got dinged from most, and I know I will continue to. I was top 11% at my T4, so I don't really have a chance and by now everyone is full already. My T4 ranked in the lower 190s, so it is a really bad T4 in ranking.

Please give me serious advice as to if there is any other way I can get into biglaw after my 2L grades and/or 3L grades? Please be honest. I am completely okay with it if I've struck out for good. What matters is that I tried.

I have heard of 3L OCI or something does that work? Would I apply again with my 2L grades at the new transfer school or after 3L grades, or should I just stop trying for BigLaw and seek something else?

Thank you so much guys and god bless everyone that has a SA job lined up. You deserve it more than likely.

[rpupkin]

First, don't feel bad about striking out. Someone who is top 11% at a TTTT has basically a 0% chance at big law. Transferring to a T50 did not meaningfully improve your chances. I understand that you're disappointed in your OCI outcome, but it's totally expected given your stats.

As for moving forward, you can certainly try mass mailing and 3L OCI, but big law remains a huge longshot for you. I suggest focusing more on medium-sized and small law firms that hire from your law school.

Finally, if it makes you feel any better, the vast majority of big law associates hate their lives and can't wait to quit. I know big law was your dream, but there is a silver lining here.

Good luck.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you. FWIW, in the future am I still looking at close to 0% even if I do well at this school. It's a low-ranked T1.

[RaceJudicata]

Thank you. FWIW, in the future am I still looking at close to 0% even if I do well at this school. It's a low-ranked T1.

Yes. But you--and only you--can marginally improve that chance. Do well (read: all A's), network your ass off, get an externship to bolster resume, etc.

That said, rpupkin is right - focus your energy on mid law/small firms and even govt jobs. No shame in any of those outcomes.

[Anonymous User]

OP, I was in a very similar situation. I was at a T3 and transferred into T14. Struck out at OCI with 1 CB. I applied to every single position I saw on Simplicity; NALP'd every city I could think of, googled firms, mass mailed everything I could think of firm-wise. Small, medium, large firms. Hundreds of dings.

Finally, one of my mass mails invited me in. I interviewed, and was offered. I just had another CB last week that was produced through my school's resume book (when firms need students because they don't like the ones they interviewed, they contact the school for resumes). I was dinged at that firm, so I'll be going to my 1 offer firm most likely.

Seriously, OCI was the toughest thing I've ever been through. Everyone else had offers so fast after OCI, and I was left grinding hard. I had a lot of anxiety, depression, frustration, and down right anger that I couldn't get anything; I started wondering what the hell was wrong with me and my interviewing skills (or lack thereof). It is a testing time, but don't give up. Keep mass mailing until mid November. Firms are still taking students.

[Anonymous User]

I guess I should preface this with the explicit disclaimer that biglaw is still almost assuredly off the table. That being said, I worked at a V40 firm that seemed to consistently hire 1st-3rd year associates that from schools ranked lower than the one you're currently at, mostly through a non-trad path (not SA>1st yr). I don't know how the T4>T1 wrinkle plays into it, but it seemed like the common feature in all their backgrounds was that they had loaded up on their resume while in law school (lots of different intern/externships, journals, leadership positions, etc.) and then they managed to get into some sort of clerkship.

As I noted at the start, there is still still not a whole lot of these jobs out there for those going this path (we're really talking about pushing yourself from like 0% to 0.5% chances) and you really have to hustle in every aspect to make it work. Keep getting good grades, probably even better grades than what you have now. Build up relationships with professors and network with attorneys in your area. Biglaw is out the window for this upcoming summer, but there's still some gov't jobs out there that would look good on a resume for a clerkship and later app to a firm. Hustle, hustle, hustle.

[Johann]

careers are long and have a funny way of playing out. its not likely, but plenty of people get into biglaw through backdoor ways so to speak. i do not think biglaw should be anyone's metric of whether to consider themself successful, and in practice, you will see it often plays out this way. if you must have another shot at biglaw, take a lot of tax law classes and read up on a tax llm at top schools.

i would study hard at your T1 and keep getting good grades. id be open to other opportunities, small law, mid law, govt, corporations, compliance etc. ultimately the goal is to learn a skill and do it very well. if you can do that, youll be successful on your own terms without needing biglaw.

[RaceJudicata]

OP, I was in a very similar situation. I was at a T3 and transferred into T14. Struck out at OCI with 1 CB. I applied to every single position I saw on Simplicity; NALP'd every city I could think of, googled firms, mass mailed everything I could think of firm-wise. Small, medium, large firms. Hundreds of dings.

Finally, one of my mass mails invited me in. I interviewed, and was offered. I just had another CB last week that was produced through my school's resume book (when firms need students because they don't like the ones they interviewed, they contact the school for resumes). I was dinged at that firm, so I'll be going to my 1 offer firm most likely.

Seriously, OCI was the toughest thing I've ever been through. Everyone else had offers so fast after OCI, and I was left grinding hard. I had a lot of anxiety, depression, frustration, and down right anger that I couldn't get anything; I started wondering what the hell was wrong with me and my interviewing skills (or lack thereof). It is a testing time, but don't give up. Keep mass mailing until mid November. Firms are still taking students.

You transferred to a T14, OP transferred to a T1 school. The differences are significant.

[Anonymous User]

working at a small/mid firm should be your focus...There are plently of great small/midsize firms that pay a lot; maybe not Biglaw rates, but more than enough, and will most likely come with more reasonable hours.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for the advice. maybe I'll find a Backdoor entrance into big law just like I did to my T1. I can only hope.

Is it necessary I work in big law to be able to lateral in a few years, or can I lateral from small law/mid law?

[cron1834]

You sound pretty obsessed with biglaw. Why did you go to a T4 school where at most 1-2 people are going to end up there?

That's not meant to be snarky. You must have had SOME motivation to go to school other than working for Skadden.

[Anonymous User]

Yes, I am obsessed with BigLaw. I had no choice to go to a T4. I didn't have much information, and I thought I could do BigLaw at any law school. The reason I had no choice was because I could not get my LSAT score past 140s. I went to the only law school that accepted me out of the 14 I applied to. I had an excellent T-14 category gpa, however but the LSAT killed me.

[trebekismyhero]

OP here. Thanks for the advice. maybe I'll find a Backdoor entrance into big law just like I did to my T1. I can only hope.

Is it necessary I work in big law to be able to lateral in a few years, or can I lateral from small law/mid law?

Not necessary. I have co-workers at my firm that started at smaller firms and then made the move up. It is not likely, but it is possible depending on the practice group.

As others have mentioned you should focus on smaller firms and local gov't. Why do you want to work in big law so badly anyways, besides the $?

[RaceJudicata]

Yes, I am obsessed with BigLaw. I had no choice to go to a T4. I didn't have much information, and I thought I could do BigLaw at any law school. The reason I had no choice was because I could not get my LSAT score past 140s. I went to the only law school that accepted me out of the 14 I applied to. I had an excellent T-14 category gpa, however but the LSAT killed me.

Bolded.. Smh... This has gone from sympathetic to asinine rather quickly.

[ClubberLang]

It does not sound like you have much real interest in practicing law. When I hear "obsessed with big law" I think "obsessed with money." At this stage, big law is not a realistic possibility. Maybe just do yourself a solid financially and drop out. I'm guessing you're paying full freight for tuition, the outcomes you are looking at are not worth the 100k plus.

[Anonymous User]

OP: You may want to try and focus on getting a judicial clerkship out of your school. Depending on how good the clerkship is your judge may be able to open doors for you in the local market. You could also try to work for a federal government agency for a few years. Obviously you are going to need fantastic grades from your current school (and hopefully your school is the top school in a non-saturated market that doesn't see a lot of competition from T14 or other T1 students).

Other than that, there really isn't much way to get a biglaw associate position after you graduate, because biglaw tends to have most of the work in its types of practice areas so associates lateral around different firms. It's more likely that if you got one of the few midlaw or boutique jobs in biglaw practice areas and eventually worked up to having a very good reputation in a niche area/substantial book of business you might be able to join as a counsel or partner, but we're talking a very low shot at getting one of these jobs and decades of work on top of that.

I would suggest you try to find a non-biglaw area of law you could be happy practicing and commit to working in that area.

[cron1834]

This has gone from sympathetic to asinine rather quickly.

Yup.

[smallfirmassociate]

Biglaw sucks anyway. Get over it and go find something that works for you. It'll be more tolerable than biglaw, and you have a long time to work on paying back loans (and you can use PAYE or do public service for ten years). There are plenty of ways to make money with a JD other than biglaw.

I know it's tempting to cry when you see the gravy train pulling out of the station with you not being on it, but think of it more as a train going to prison than a train going to Hogwarts. You dodged a bullet, IMO. Besides, you never had a legit chance at securing a ticket. Time to move on.