DPW, Paul Weiss, Quinn (NYC) vs. Williams & Connolly Forum

[Anonymous User]

I'm having a hard time deciding between firms and deadlines are approaching more rapidly than I thought. I am interested in litigation (mostly white collar, but I also am interested in general commercial and would like to try IP lit if possible). I am hoping to clerk, work at a firm for a bit and then go to the USAO somewhere down the line. I've never lived in DC (or really been there), but I've lived in NYC for a bit and know that I would be comfortable there. I don't think I want to be in DC long term, and I'm apprehensive about moving to a city where I've never been and don't know anyone, but it seems like W&C is the best for my career prospects down the line (is this true if I don't want DC long term?) and I also liked the people I met there and how they seem to get a lot of early experience. In NYC, my favorite right now is Paul, Weiss because I really clicked with the people during my interview, the litigation practice seems pretty varied so that I can try a bunch of different things, and they seem to really value their pro bono work.

Also looking at DPW and Quinn if anyone has insights on those two, but I don't like them as much as PW at the moment.

My concerns:
Compensation -- W&C compensation system is strange to me. The base is higher, but it seems with no bonus that higher year attorneys are getting paid below market?
Hours -- Are there any real differences in the amount of hours that people work at any of these places or are they all sweatshops?
Career prospects -- Will any of these firms be able to get me where I want to go more easily?
People -- Are the people at W&C particularly intense?
Mobility -- Will I be stuck in the city that I choose for this summer?
Splitting -- Does anyone do this between firms? Has anyone tried this for the firms im looking at? What are the negatives (if it's even allowed, I havent inquired yet).

Please help!

[jbagelboy]

If you are committed to NY, then Davis Polk. It's the AUSO pipeline for SDNY/EDNY and the lit partners (mostly former federal prosecutors) take pains to place interested associates in government. Of course Paul Weiss has a terrific practice too and if you like them more, go ahead. QE would be my bottom selection here.

Overall, Williams & Connolly. It's the best place to litigate among these four hands down. Someone with your credentials will almost certainly be clerking, and dpw/pw/quinn will still be options in three years if you decide you hate DC.

[Anonymous User]

Your poll will tell you W&C, because it's considered the most "prestigious" and objectively is the hardest to get hired at among your choices.

How much being in NYC matters or becoming an AUSA in NYC is maybe the first step in the analysis. If not that much, then W&C. If a lot, then a toss-up between DPW and PW. (My bias: Despite the DPW AUSA pipeline, I also vastly preferred the culture and personalities at PW and would choose it over DPW. PW places well too for AUSAs.) Since it's just a summer, I'd go W&C. I was just talking to DPW partners about how people who didn't accept their offers 2L summer came back and were hired as 3Ls.

[Anonymous User]

I would go to William & Connolly for the summer, as it's a new city that you aren't familiar with and probably has the strongest litigation practice overall. Literally every single one of the aforementioned firms will hire you as a 3L if you reapply, though--so you might as well go to a new place.

Similarly, if you reject W&C and obtain a clerkship, they're likely to re-offer you after you finish clerking. I don't know of any firms who refuse to re-offer someone after the person rejected the firm as a 2L. If you don't like W&C, just go back to where you know (NYC) as a 3L. But you can't really make a bad choice here.

[quiver]

Overall, Williams & Connolly. It's the best place to litigate among these four hands down. Someone with your credentials will almost certainly be clerking, and dpw/pw/quinn will still be options in three years if you decide you hate DC.

This is my vote.

[Anonymous User]

Go to WC, but take the NY bar exam and waive into DC. That way, when you decide to lateral from WC to wherever in NYC, you'll already have the bar exam out of the way. Also, if you do WC, but think you may want to do SDNY down the line, maybe clerk on SDNY/2 Cir.

Of course, if you go to WC and ultimate goal is USAO, EDVA in Alexandria is probably just as selective as SDNY and has a docket of interesting cases in cyber, national security, and white collar enforcement.

[Anonymous User]

You get paid less at Williams and Connolly. You'll work more hours in New York, but you'll go into the office earlier in DC. Each firm is fine for lateraling to USAO. Remember, these are all elite firms. No one except law students really thinks there's that much difference among them. Just get on the right cases and work for the right partners. People at Williams & Connolly are not any more/less intense from the others firms in my experience. The culture at Williams & Connolly is more collegial because it only has one office. It is sort of like WLRK in that respect. No, you won't be stuck in the city you chose during the summer unless that's where you want to go.

[legends159]

Clerk --> W&C/DPW/PW for 4-5 years --> AUSA home state or where you want to live long term

When you get to the last step, you'll realize where you ended up in the 2nd step didn't matter.

So now it comes down to living in NYC or DC for 4-5 years. This part matters because it's where you'll spend 4-5 very important years. These are the years you will learn the most about yourself, your aspirations and your future goals (people don't just burnout b/c they can't hack it - you're not more special than the other thousands of SAs who got biglaw offers). In these years you'll either meet your s/o or marry your current s/o and start a family. You'll spend late nights in the office and go home to some apartment for a few hours of sleep - for weeks at a time. You'll be so attached to your phone that even the thought of it not being within reach of you will set off panic attacks...but then you'll leave, go in-house or AUSA or a smaller firm and start the next chapter of your life. Or maybe you are special and you stick it out and make partner. And by special I mean you're crazy but to each their own.

So visit DC, revisit NYC and when you decide which city to live in then just flip a coin.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP...

Would the answers be the same for Covington DC/Wilmer DC, i.e., going to one of those over DPW, PW, or Quinn in New York?

[rpupkin]

Clerk --> W&C/DPW/PW for 4-5 years --> AUSA home state or where you want to live long term

When you get to the last step, you'll realize where you ended up in the 2nd step didn't matter.

I disagree with this. I think litigation-skill-acquisition/trial experience really helps when you're applying for an AUSA position, and OP is more likely to get that experience at W&C.

[Anonymous User]

Not OP...

Would the answers be the same for Covington DC/Wilmer DC, i.e., going to one of those over DPW, PW, or Quinn in New York?

Depends. If you want to be in DC and go into government, Covington is the gold standard. Wilmer is good too. Covington doesn't pay its associates though so there is the trade off.

If you want to be in NYC no way you should go to cov or Wilmer DC.

[legends159]

Clerk --> W&C/DPW/PW for 4-5 years --> AUSA home state or where you want to live long term

When you get to the last step, you'll realize where you ended up in the 2nd step didn't matter.

I disagree with this. I think litigation-skill-acquisition/trial experience really helps when you're applying for an AUSA position, and OP is more likely to get that experience at W&C.

You've worked long enough to realize that it's all noise. The real deciding factor won't come down to which firm you go to. It's akin to the question of which of HYS gives me best chance of getting a job at W&C/DPW/PW etc.

Anyway, don't mean to derail OP. No need to argue over this point.

[Anonymous User]

At one of these firms that isn't W&C. Would go to W&C. My interactions with W&C attorneys have been very positive when they are on the other side of the v. All of these firms will work you hard, but I think you'd learn the most (and learn it the fastest) at W&C.

[rpupkin]

Clerk --> W&C/DPW/PW for 4-5 years --> AUSA home state or where you want to live long term

When you get to the last step, you'll realize where you ended up in the 2nd step didn't matter.

I disagree with this. I think litigation-skill-acquisition/trial experience really helps when you're applying for an AUSA position, and OP is more likely to get that experience at W&C.

You've worked long enough to realize that it's all noise. The real deciding factor won't come down to which firm you go to. It's akin to the question of which of HYS gives me best chance of getting a job at W&C/DPW/PW etc.

I don't think you understand my point. This isn't about which firm is more prestigious or anything like that. It's about the firm that gives you the best opportunities for early litigation experience. I think that's W&C, followed by PW and DPW, in that order.

[legends159]

Clerk --> W&C/DPW/PW for 4-5 years --> AUSA home state or where you want to live long term

When you get to the last step, you'll realize where you ended up in the 2nd step didn't matter.

I disagree with this. I think litigation-skill-acquisition/trial experience really helps when you're applying for an AUSA position, and OP is more likely to get that experience at W&C.

You've worked long enough to realize that it's all noise. The real deciding factor won't come down to which firm you go to. It's akin to the question of which of HYS gives me best chance of getting a job at W&C/DPW/PW etc.

I don't think you understand my point. This isn't about which firm is more prestigious or anything like that. It's about the firm that gives you the best opportunities for early litigation experience. I think that's W&C, followed by PW and DPW, in that order.

I understood your point; I simply disagree. But again no need to derail thread simply because we have differences in opinion.

[Anonymous User]

OP, would you mind if I asked what school you go to? It seems like W&C gives offers by schools, and only CLS offers have been reported so far here. Lots of people over in the DC CB --> offer thread would love to know.

[Anonymous User]

OP, would you mind if I asked what school you go to? It seems like W&C gives offers by schools, and only CLS offers have been reported so far here. Lots of people over in the DC CB --> offer thread would love to know.

Penn has received at least one offer.

[Anonymous User]

OP, would you mind if I asked what school you go to? It seems like W&C gives offers by schools, and only CLS offers have been reported so far here. Lots of people over in the DC CB --> offer thread would love to know.

Penn has received at least one offer.

Thank you!!

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Thanks for all the responses guys. This really made the decision a lot less stressful. I'm not attached to NYC by any means, I just know I'd be fine living there for a while. Since it doesnt seem like this summer is going to tie me down I think I'm going to DC.

OP, would you mind if I asked what school you go to? It seems like W&C gives offers by schools, and only CLS offers have been reported so far here. Lots of people over in the DC CB --> offer thread would love to know.

At a school that's already reported offers on here lol