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Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:25 pm**

helped

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:33 pm**

So they aren't a NALP, firm, right? Although I actually don't know what kind of recourse there would be even if there was.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:34 pm**

Accept and then renege if you get another job.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:36 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.

Yea, that's probably what I would do.

I think the ethics of this changes drastically when they refuse to give you even 3 BD to decide.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:41 pm**

Wouldnt leaving after a month considered burning bridges and unethical? Also how do you do this? It just seems like such an awkward conversation.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 12:52 pm**

sublime wrote:So they aren't a NALP, firm, right? Although I actually don't know what kind of recourse there would be even if there was.

Not a NALP firm.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:05 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:09 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:Wouldnt leaving after a month considered burning bridges and unethical? Also how do you do this? It just seems like such an awkward conversation.

Burning bridges, maybe. Unethical, no. They'd lay you off after a month. This is their problem if they hire this way. You hire people like they're baristas and they'll treat the job like it's a barista job.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:19 pm**

TBH, this firm seems really crappy. 3 days to decide? Is this normal? Plus, 74k and 2000+ billable hours is not all that enticing.

Two choices:

1. Accept and then renege if you get a better offer. Downside is this sucks and could have repercussions for your reputation. Plus side is that you don't end up jobless in case your other possibilities fall through. In all fairness, they haven't left you with a lot of options. Reneging here seems less problematic because of the way they put their offer to you.

2. Tell the firm to you're really interested, but you simply can't make a decision that fast. Ask for an extension. If they really deny you, then it doesn't seem like the firm is really somewhere you want to work anyways.

If it were me, I'd go with choice #2. It just seems like the better thing to do. However, getting a job can be tough, and you don't want to come up empty handed.

I guess I have a few follow up questions for you:

What's the likelihood of coming into contact with this firm again if you renege? Do the other firms practice in the same areas?

Are you already outperforming yourself by getting an offer from a not-so-great school/lousy grades?

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:26 pm**

Only $74K for $2000 billable? Adjusted for a normal human being work schedule that's like $37K/yr. Avoid this firm IMO

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:27 pm**

eyeofvigilence wrote:TBH, this firm seems really crappy. 3 days to decide? Is this normal? Plus, 74k and 2000+ billable hours is not all that enticing.

Two choices:

1. Accept and then renege if you get a better offer. Downside is this sucks and could have repercussions for your reputation. Plus side is that you don't end up jobless in case your other possibilities fall through. In all fairness, they haven't left you with a lot of options. Reneging here seems less problematic because of the way they put their offer to you.

2. Tell the firm to you're really interested, but you simply can't make a decision that fast. Ask for an extension. If they really deny you, then it doesn't seem like the firm is really somewhere you want to work anyways.

If it were me, I'd go with choice #2. It just seems like the better thing to do. However, getting a job can be tough, and you don't want to come up empty handed.

I guess I have a few follow up questions for you:

What's the likelihood of coming into contact with this firm again if you renege? Do the other firms practice in the same areas?

Are you already outperforming yourself by getting an offer from a not-so-great school/lousy grades?

This is a non NALP firm that gets paid by insurance companies. Im not sure if I am outperforming myself. I am still i the run at 1 large firm and 1 midsize firm with much better pay and hours, as well as 1 small firm, but no cigar yet. Im a median at Tier 1 school with strong softs.

I doubt I will come into contact with this firm again as they do defense work. Does it matter though? Will they remember me years from now?

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:41 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
eyeofvigilence wrote:TBH, this firm seems really crappy. 3 days to decide? Is this normal? Plus, 74k and 2000+ billable hours is not all that enticing.

Two choices:

1. Accept and then renege if you get a better offer. Downside is this sucks and could have repercussions for your reputation. Plus side is that you don't end up jobless in case your other possibilities fall through. In all fairness, they haven't left you with a lot of options. Reneging here seems less problematic because of the way they put their offer to you.

2. Tell the firm to you're really interested, but you simply can't make a decision that fast. Ask for an extension. If they really deny you, then it doesn't seem like the firm is really somewhere you want to work anyways.

If it were me, I'd go with choice #2. It just seems like the better thing to do. However, getting a job can be tough, and you don't want to come up empty handed.

I guess I have a few follow up questions for you:

What's the likelihood of coming into contact with this firm again if you renege? Do the other firms practice in the same areas?

Are you already outperforming yourself by getting an offer from a not-so-great school/lousy grades?
This is a non NALP firm that gets paid by insurance companies. Im not sure if I am outperforming myself. I am still i the run at 1 large firm and 1 midsize firm with much better pay and hours, as well as 1 small firm, but no cigar yet. Im a median at Tier 1 school with strong softs.

I doubt I will come into contact with this firm again as they do defense work. Does it matter though? Will they remember me years from now?

I think you can do better. Screw this firm. It sounds like you'd be miserable there anyway.

Basically any other firm sounds better than this one. Tell them no.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:45 pm**

Whatever you do, you definitely don't cancel an interview at a good place, gotten for you by connections. That's absolutely not an option. The fact that they're happy to have you do this so you can work at their shitty layoff factory tells you what kind of respect you should have for these people: zero.

Don't fuck yourself over in order to avoid an "awkward conversation" or in order to please some asshole partner who needs you to start ASAP because they stupidly fired too many people.

Be a lawyer. Think strategically. Your number one WORST option is to start at this shithole, stop your job search prematurely, and "suck it up." Don't do that. Whether or not you start here for a short-term money infusion (and I would argue that you should), you definitely should not start here if you're going to let them giving you a job be some kind of ethical yoke that keeps you from getting a real, decent, legitimate job.

tl;dr: If you're going to be the kind of person who will let these people fuck you for a year+ because you think leaving is "unethical" or will be "awkward" then you need to not start at this job, because it's not worth it.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:46 pm**

If I were you:

Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.

unless you expect to deal with people in this firm again/you're going into a niche field. Never renege in a niche field.

I'd be trying extremely hard to find another one in the meantime, because $74k for 2000/year in billables is absolutely ridiculous. It generally sounds like the firm doesn't have its ducks in a row and is trying to fill in gaps ASAP until they can figure out a solution, which is a terrible position to put yourself in. As for what to say, just tell them the truth (something came up, you can no longer accept the offer, you appreciate the opportunity, etc.). Keep it professional.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 1:55 pm**

You should do a poll, OP:

Accept & Renege or Tell them no

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:01 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Wouldnt leaving after a month considered burning bridges and unethical? Also how do you do this? It just seems like such an awkward conversation.
Burning bridges, maybe. Unethical, no. They'd lay you off after a month. This is their problem if they hire this way. You hire people like they're baristas and they'll treat the job like it's a barista job.

Exactly this. People always worry it's unethical to leave a job almost right away. It's not. It might piss off people at the job you leave, but nothing in the ethics rules requires you staying at a crappy job if you get a better one.

Sure, it's probably going to be an awkward conversation. Better an awkward conversation than being stuck in a crappy job if you have a better option (and taking the crappy job and leaving if something better comes along is also better than turning down the crappy job and being unemployed for longer).

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:05 pm**

Chill_Out wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.

Perhaps I am wrong about this, but I believe on the bar application there was this question: “have you ever reneged?” I am not positive where I saw this question asked, but I did see it.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:10 pm**

Toni V wrote:
Chill_Out wrote:
Anonymous User wrote:Accept and then renege if you get another job.
Perhaps I am wrong about this, but I believe on the bar application there was this question: “have you ever reneged?” I am not positive where I saw this question asked, but I did see it.

Pretty sure not on the bar application. Don't fearmonger.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:13 pm**

You can literally look on the bar application for your state and see if this question is asked.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 2:51 pm**

OP here. so the dude on the phone sounded like if I wasn't going to accept the offer right away he was going to give it to someone else. I sort of can't believe they aren't flexible with giving me even 3 business days to decide. I thought the normal was 2 weeks. Well I will wait until end of business day on Monday to figure out my next plan of action.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:07 pm**

Take the job, interview elsewhere, and if you leave tell them "I give firms 3 days to decide if I want to leave or not."

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 3:10 pm**

2k billable for 74k.... what the hell

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 4:58 pm**

Take it and keep looking / interviewing. They sound terrible and you should keep at it as if you don't have a job, but this at least gives you a safety net. A safety net full of vileness and horror, but a net nonetheless.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:10 pm**

So leaving after a month or less is okay right? It wont hurt my career?

As someone above mentioned, ppl get canned after a month due to layoff as well. So I guess it works both ways.

Posted: **Sat Aug 27, 2016 5:11 pm**

Anonymous User wrote:So leaving after a month or less is okay right?

Yes. 100% yes.

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