NY Bankruptcy / Restructuring Groups Forum

[Anonymous User]

Can anyone speak to cultures of the various large or prominent bankruptcy groups in NYC? Any info would be helpful, including work/life balance (if any), personalities, type of work juniors and midlevels are provided, how long the average associate lasts, etc. Toxic bankruptcy groups to steer clear of and why would be particularly relevant to me.

Would also be helpful to know if you're speaking from experience or second hand, although both are welcome.

I'm a junior associate who is considering lateraling to another firm given the market. I have ideas of some groups, ones that I've worked across from, but am seeking insider knowledge if it's out there.

Thanks everyone!

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Brown Rudnick like the plague.

(former BR associate)

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

delete

[Anonymous User]

no one is going to reply to you publicly on the forum - if you want feedback, you're going to need to post non-anonymously so folks can PM you.

[obx]

I'm interested. Particularly in Kirkland, Weil, Skadden, Latham, Davis Polk. Really interested in the first three at this point, though.

[What the f.supp?]

no one is going to reply to you publicly on the forum - if you want feedback, you're going to need to post non-anonymously so folks can PM you.

This is great advice.

[LedZep76]

OP here. Please feel free to PM me, as other users have suggested. Thanks.

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Brown Rudnick like the plague.

(former BR associate)

Could you go into any specifics please?

[Anonymous User]

Avoid Brown Rudnick like the plague.

(former BR associate)

Could you go into any specifics please?

It's a sweatshop boys' club where the partners are screamers. When I jumped ship to another firm, there were more partners than associates, so right out of the gates you are going to get thrown to the wolves with no barrier between you and a partner who has no patience for a new hire.

It's nothing against them personally, but I would bet that your experience at any other shop would be more enjoyable.

[sarahlaw0401]

Avoid Brown Rudnick like the plague.

(former BR associate)

Can you PM me?

[Anonymous User]

does anyone have any experience with the Milbank group?

[Anonymous User]

does anyone have any experience with the Milbank group?

would also be interested in this.

[MilbankAlum]

Haven't worked in the group but used to work hand in hand with them on lev fin deals. It's an excellent group, great group of personalities in the partners. As far as the work itself they do a lot of unsecured committee representation. If you're looking for more of a transactional type of bankruptcy practice this is probably not the best group for that - they are very much a big group of litigators who focus on bankruptcy work. Complex transactional issues would be handled out of my group and we would often loan (haha) out associates to FRG when the market for debt deals was slow. Definitely some of the hardest working folks at the firm, but on the flip side, definitely the most high flying. They're not Weil, but they're about as close as it gets while still being able to benefit from the relatively chill culture of MTHM. Will say that there are very few women who work in the group and women often leave because of a perception of it being a "boys' club". Based on my knowledge of some of the personalities there...it is somewhat fratty.

[Anonymous User]

Haven't worked in the group but used to work hand in hand with them on lev fin deals. It's an excellent group, great group of personalities in the partners. As far as the work itself they do a lot of unsecured committee representation. If you're looking for more of a transactional type of bankruptcy practice this is probably not the best group for that - they are very much a big group of litigators who focus on bankruptcy work. Complex transactional issues would be handled out of my group and we would often loan (haha) out associates to FRG when the market for debt deals was slow. Definitely some of the hardest working folks at the firm, but on the flip side, definitely the most high flying. They're not Weil, but they're about as close as it gets while still being able to benefit from the relatively chill culture of MTHM. Will say that there are very few women who work in the group and women often leave because of a perception of it being a "boys' club". Based on my knowledge of some of the personalities there...it is somewhat fratty.

thanks a lot - always appreciate your insight. Any knowledge about exit options for the group?

[MilbankAlum]

Haven't worked in the group but used to work hand in hand with them on lev fin deals. It's an excellent group, great group of personalities in the partners. As far as the work itself they do a lot of unsecured committee representation. If you're looking for more of a transactional type of bankruptcy practice this is probably not the best group for that - they are very much a big group of litigators who focus on bankruptcy work. Complex transactional issues would be handled out of my group and we would often loan (haha) out associates to FRG when the market for debt deals was slow. Definitely some of the hardest working folks at the firm, but on the flip side, definitely the most high flying. They're not Weil, but they're about as close as it gets while still being able to benefit from the relatively chill culture of MTHM. Will say that there are very few women who work in the group and women often leave because of a perception of it being a "boys' club". Based on my knowledge of some of the personalities there...it is somewhat fratty.

thanks a lot - always appreciate your insight. Any knowledge about exit options for the group?

Most of the folks I know who leave generally leave after 2-3 years. The exit options are usually to commercial litigation practices, some exits to finance/business practices, and others to other top-class RX practices on the Street. Usually people are "trading up" in terms of the Vault rankings and often in terms of the "prestige" rankings - speaks to the fact that the group is playing in a somewhat different league from the usual MM and UMM spaces in which Milbank's clients in other practices are usually playing. On the business side, some do go in-house to banks/PE shops, and I know at least one guy who went to the actual investing side at a merchant banking shop.

I know that two big RX IB firms with which Milbank works extensively are Houlihan and PJT (formerly Blackstone). Typically these guys are serving as financial advisors to the same group of junior creditors that Milbank is advising in an ongoing restructuring. Having interviewed with both firms while I myself was transitioning onto the business side, I can tell you that restructuring firms are extremely aggressive about trying to bring ex-lawyers into the fold who have a mind for finance. I haven't seen people from Milbank make that move, mainly because restructuring as a practice can definitely cause some burnout and RX banking is probably even more grueling, but it's an option that's open if you can get down basic corp fin / valuation concepts gleanable from BIWS or similar guides.

Last point: the firm lost Matt Barr to Weil last year. Not necessarily a devastating loss, but was a loss all the same. From what I hear from some friends still at Milbank, the group has nevertheless been slammed enough over the past year that they are borrowing associates from lit and lev fin to help distribute the workload. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it, given the concentration of major rainmakers in the group (Uzzi, Raval, et al)

[Anonymous User]

Haven't worked in the group but used to work hand in hand with them on lev fin deals. It's an excellent group, great group of personalities in the partners. As far as the work itself they do a lot of unsecured committee representation. If you're looking for more of a transactional type of bankruptcy practice this is probably not the best group for that - they are very much a big group of litigators who focus on bankruptcy work. Complex transactional issues would be handled out of my group and we would often loan (haha) out associates to FRG when the market for debt deals was slow. Definitely some of the hardest working folks at the firm, but on the flip side, definitely the most high flying. They're not Weil, but they're about as close as it gets while still being able to benefit from the relatively chill culture of MTHM. Will say that there are very few women who work in the group and women often leave because of a perception of it being a "boys' club". Based on my knowledge of some of the personalities there...it is somewhat fratty.

thanks a lot - always appreciate your insight. Any knowledge about exit options for the group?

Most of the folks I know who leave generally leave after 2-3 years. The exit options are usually to commercial litigation practices, some exits to finance/business practices, and others to other top-class RX practices on the Street. Usually people are "trading up" in terms of the Vault rankings and often in terms of the "prestige" rankings - speaks to the fact that the group is playing in a somewhat different league from the usual MM and UMM spaces in which Milbank's clients in other practices are usually playing. On the business side, some do go in-house to banks/PE shops, and I know at least one guy who went to the actual investing side at a merchant banking shop.

I know that two big RX IB firms with which Milbank works extensively are Houlihan and PJT (formerly Blackstone). Typically these guys are serving as financial advisors to the same group of junior creditors that Milbank is advising in an ongoing restructuring. Having interviewed with both firms while I myself was transitioning onto the business side, I can tell you that restructuring firms are extremely aggressive about trying to bring ex-lawyers into the fold who have a mind for finance. I haven't seen people from Milbank make that move, mainly because restructuring as a practice can definitely cause some burnout and RX banking is probably even more grueling, but it's an option that's open if you can get down basic corp fin / valuation concepts gleanable from BIWS or similar guides.

Last point: the firm lost Matt Barr to Weil last year. Not necessarily a devastating loss, but was a loss all the same. From what I hear from some friends still at Milbank, the group has nevertheless been slammed enough over the past year that they are borrowing associates from lit and lev fin to help distribute the workload. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it, given the concentration of major rainmakers in the group (Uzzi, Raval, et al)

Switching from BK law to RX banking without prior background in finance/MBA is extremely difficult, if even possible. Your strongest competitors for such positions at Lazard/PJT/Evercore/Houlihan/Rothschild/Moelis are M&A banking associates at places like GS/MS/Evercore/Lazard/JPM who are trying to switch to RX (since the M&A bankers at the top shops can quickly learn the legal pieces needed for RX banking, e.g., reading credit docs, understanding guaranty). Almost all of the people who switched from law firms to RX banking were star M&A/RX third/fourth associates at places like Wachtell, Skadden, and Kirkland.

[lawlorbust]

Just curious, how big is a big restructuring group?

[MilbankAlum]

Haven't worked in the group but used to work hand in hand with them on lev fin deals. It's an excellent group, great group of personalities in the partners. As far as the work itself they do a lot of unsecured committee representation. If you're looking for more of a transactional type of bankruptcy practice this is probably not the best group for that - they are very much a big group of litigators who focus on bankruptcy work. Complex transactional issues would be handled out of my group and we would often loan (haha) out associates to FRG when the market for debt deals was slow. Definitely some of the hardest working folks at the firm, but on the flip side, definitely the most high flying. They're not Weil, but they're about as close as it gets while still being able to benefit from the relatively chill culture of MTHM. Will say that there are very few women who work in the group and women often leave because of a perception of it being a "boys' club". Based on my knowledge of some of the personalities there...it is somewhat fratty.

thanks a lot - always appreciate your insight. Any knowledge about exit options for the group?

Most of the folks I know who leave generally leave after 2-3 years. The exit options are usually to commercial litigation practices, some exits to finance/business practices, and others to other top-class RX practices on the Street. Usually people are "trading up" in terms of the Vault rankings and often in terms of the "prestige" rankings - speaks to the fact that the group is playing in a somewhat different league from the usual MM and UMM spaces in which Milbank's clients in other practices are usually playing. On the business side, some do go in-house to banks/PE shops, and I know at least one guy who went to the actual investing side at a merchant banking shop.

I know that two big RX IB firms with which Milbank works extensively are Houlihan and PJT (formerly Blackstone). Typically these guys are serving as financial advisors to the same group of junior creditors that Milbank is advising in an ongoing restructuring. Having interviewed with both firms while I myself was transitioning onto the business side, I can tell you that restructuring firms are extremely aggressive about trying to bring ex-lawyers into the fold who have a mind for finance. I haven't seen people from Milbank make that move, mainly because restructuring as a practice can definitely cause some burnout and RX banking is probably even more grueling, but it's an option that's open if you can get down basic corp fin / valuation concepts gleanable from BIWS or similar guides.

Last point: the firm lost Matt Barr to Weil last year. Not necessarily a devastating loss, but was a loss all the same. From what I hear from some friends still at Milbank, the group has nevertheless been slammed enough over the past year that they are borrowing associates from lit and lev fin to help distribute the workload. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it, given the concentration of major rainmakers in the group (Uzzi, Raval, et al)

Switching from BK law to RX banking without prior background in finance/MBA is extremely difficult, if even possible. Your strongest competitors for such positions at Lazard/PJT/Evercore/Houlihan/Rothschild/Moelis are M&A banking associates at places like GS/MS/Evercore/Lazard/JPM who are trying to switch to RX (since the M&A bankers at the top shops can quickly learn the legal pieces needed for RX banking, e.g., reading credit docs, understanding guaranty). Almost all of the people who switched from law firms to RX banking were star M&A/RX third/fourth associates at places like Wachtell, Skadden, and Kirkland.

See above. I'm not saying you don't need to study up on valuation / corp fin to get this job; of course you do. But there are multiple lawyers who have jumped to RX banking (Lazard in particular comes to mind) despite not having WLRK on their resume without necessarily having an MBA or finance background - I almost was one. It's also not at all my experience that M&A bankers are falling over themselves to jump to restructuring, particularly not at the associate level. Anecdotal but at the associate level it seems like folks targeting RX are doing so right out the gate of business school / their analyst gig, not waiting around for a few years in M&A to jump to restructuring, which is a somewhat different skill set and workflow.

[Anonymous User]

Haven't worked in the group but used to work hand in hand with them on lev fin deals. It's an excellent group, great group of personalities in the partners. As far as the work itself they do a lot of unsecured committee representation. If you're looking for more of a transactional type of bankruptcy practice this is probably not the best group for that - they are very much a big group of litigators who focus on bankruptcy work. Complex transactional issues would be handled out of my group and we would often loan (haha) out associates to FRG when the market for debt deals was slow. Definitely some of the hardest working folks at the firm, but on the flip side, definitely the most high flying. They're not Weil, but they're about as close as it gets while still being able to benefit from the relatively chill culture of MTHM. Will say that there are very few women who work in the group and women often leave because of a perception of it being a "boys' club". Based on my knowledge of some of the personalities there...it is somewhat fratty.

thanks a lot - always appreciate your insight. Any knowledge about exit options for the group?

Most of the folks I know who leave generally leave after 2-3 years. The exit options are usually to commercial litigation practices, some exits to finance/business practices, and others to other top-class RX practices on the Street. Usually people are "trading up" in terms of the Vault rankings and often in terms of the "prestige" rankings - speaks to the fact that the group is playing in a somewhat different league from the usual MM and UMM spaces in which Milbank's clients in other practices are usually playing. On the business side, some do go in-house to banks/PE shops, and I know at least one guy who went to the actual investing side at a merchant banking shop.

I know that two big RX IB firms with which Milbank works extensively are Houlihan and PJT (formerly Blackstone). Typically these guys are serving as financial advisors to the same group of junior creditors that Milbank is advising in an ongoing restructuring. Having interviewed with both firms while I myself was transitioning onto the business side, I can tell you that restructuring firms are extremely aggressive about trying to bring ex-lawyers into the fold who have a mind for finance. I haven't seen people from Milbank make that move, mainly because restructuring as a practice can definitely cause some burnout and RX banking is probably even more grueling, but it's an option that's open if you can get down basic corp fin / valuation concepts gleanable from BIWS or similar guides.

Last point: the firm lost Matt Barr to Weil last year. Not necessarily a devastating loss, but was a loss all the same. From what I hear from some friends still at Milbank, the group has nevertheless been slammed enough over the past year that they are borrowing associates from lit and lev fin to help distribute the workload. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it, given the concentration of major rainmakers in the group (Uzzi, Raval, et al)

Switching from BK law to RX banking without prior background in finance/MBA is extremely difficult, if even possible. Your strongest competitors for such positions at Lazard/PJT/Evercore/Houlihan/Rothschild/Moelis are M&A banking associates at places like GS/MS/Evercore/Lazard/JPM who are trying to switch to RX (since the M&A bankers at the top shops can quickly learn the legal pieces needed for RX banking, e.g., reading credit docs, understanding guaranty). Almost all of the people who switched from law firms to RX banking were star M&A/RX third/fourth associates at places like Wachtell, Skadden, and Kirkland.

See above. I'm not saying you don't need to study up on valuation / corp fin to get this job; of course you do. But there are multiple lawyers who have jumped to RX banking (Lazard in particular comes to mind) despite not having WLRK on their resume without necessarily having an MBA or finance background - I almost was one. It's also not at all my experience that M&A bankers are falling over themselves to jump to restructuring, particularly not at the associate level. Anecdotal but at the associate level it seems like folks targeting RX are doing so right out the gate of business school / their analyst gig, not waiting around for a few years in M&A to jump to restructuring, which is a somewhat different skill set and workflow.

Most of the few lawyers who switched to Lazard were star associates at Wachtell, Kirkland, etc. I know many of them. Not saying you can't do it from Milbank; it's difficult, even from Wachtell. Many M&A bankers are interested in RX because of the technical skill set and the counter-cyclical nature of the work.

[Anonymous User]

Is an exit to commercial lit more realistic?

[Anonymous User]

Haven't worked in the group but used to work hand in hand with them on lev fin deals. It's an excellent group, great group of personalities in the partners. As far as the work itself they do a lot of unsecured committee representation. If you're looking for more of a transactional type of bankruptcy practice this is probably not the best group for that - they are very much a big group of litigators who focus on bankruptcy work. Complex transactional issues would be handled out of my group and we would often loan (haha) out associates to FRG when the market for debt deals was slow. Definitely some of the hardest working folks at the firm, but on the flip side, definitely the most high flying. They're not Weil, but they're about as close as it gets while still being able to benefit from the relatively chill culture of MTHM. Will say that there are very few women who work in the group and women often leave because of a perception of it being a "boys' club". Based on my knowledge of some of the personalities there...it is somewhat fratty.

thanks a lot - always appreciate your insight. Any knowledge about exit options for the group?

Most of the folks I know who leave generally leave after 2-3 years. The exit options are usually to commercial litigation practices, some exits to finance/business practices, and others to other top-class RX practices on the Street. Usually people are "trading up" in terms of the Vault rankings and often in terms of the "prestige" rankings - speaks to the fact that the group is playing in a somewhat different league from the usual MM and UMM spaces in which Milbank's clients in other practices are usually playing. On the business side, some do go in-house to banks/PE shops, and I know at least one guy who went to the actual investing side at a merchant banking shop.

I know that two big RX IB firms with which Milbank works extensively are Houlihan and PJT (formerly Blackstone). Typically these guys are serving as financial advisors to the same group of junior creditors that Milbank is advising in an ongoing restructuring. Having interviewed with both firms while I myself was transitioning onto the business side, I can tell you that restructuring firms are extremely aggressive about trying to bring ex-lawyers into the fold who have a mind for finance. I haven't seen people from Milbank make that move, mainly because restructuring as a practice can definitely cause some burnout and RX banking is probably even more grueling, but it's an option that's open if you can get down basic corp fin / valuation concepts gleanable from BIWS or similar guides.

Last point: the firm lost Matt Barr to Weil last year. Not necessarily a devastating loss, but was a loss all the same. From what I hear from some friends still at Milbank, the group has nevertheless been slammed enough over the past year that they are borrowing associates from lit and lev fin to help distribute the workload. I wouldn't be terribly concerned about it, given the concentration of major rainmakers in the group (Uzzi, Raval, et al)

Switching from BK law to RX banking without prior background in finance/MBA is extremely difficult, if even possible. Your strongest competitors for such positions at Lazard/PJT/Evercore/Houlihan/Rothschild/Moelis are M&A banking associates at places like GS/MS/Evercore/Lazard/JPM who are trying to switch to RX (since the M&A bankers at the top shops can quickly learn the legal pieces needed for RX banking, e.g., reading credit docs, understanding guaranty). Almost all of the people who switched from law firms to RX banking were star M&A/RX third/fourth associates at places like Wachtell, Skadden, and Kirkland.

See above. I'm not saying you don't need to study up on valuation / corp fin to get this job; of course you do. But there are multiple lawyers who have jumped to RX banking (Lazard in particular comes to mind) despite not having WLRK on their resume without necessarily having an MBA or finance background - I almost was one. It's also not at all my experience that M&A bankers are falling over themselves to jump to restructuring, particularly not at the associate level. Anecdotal but at the associate level it seems like folks targeting RX are doing so right out the gate of business school / their analyst gig, not waiting around for a few years in M&A to jump to restructuring, which is a somewhat different skill set and workflow.

Most of the few lawyers who switched to Lazard were star associates at Wachtell, Kirkland, etc. I know many of them. Not saying you can't do it from Milbank; it's difficult, even from Wachtell. Many M&A bankers are interested in RX because of the technical skill set and the counter-cyclical nature of the work.

Current Weil/KE restructuring associate here, really not sure where this is coming from. The world of restructuring professionals is a small one and associates at top firms absolutely can and do switch sides regularly. It's definitely not something that's only an option for star associates at Wachtell (lol?).

[Anonymous User]

Current Weil/KE restructuring associate here, really not sure where this is coming from. The world of restructuring professionals is a small one and associates at top firms absolutely can and do switch sides regularly.

Does this hold true for associates at Skadden/DPW/CGSH? I'm curious about these top firms with restructuring groups that may not be as well regarded as K&E/Weil.

[Anonymous User]

Current Weil/KE restructuring associate here, really not sure where this is coming from. The world of restructuring professionals is a small one and associates at top firms absolutely can and do switch sides regularly.

Does this hold true for associates at Skadden/DPW/CGSH? I'm curious about these top firms with restructuring groups that may not be as well regarded as K&E/Weil.

Go on Linkedin, run an advanced search, and see how many associates you can find. There should be a couple of associates who made such a switch every year.

Have 2 friends at WLRK trying to make the switch to RX and one more trying to switch to M&A at EB/BB, but with no success after months of trying. FWIW.

[Anonymous User]

Current Weil/KE restructuring associate here, really not sure where this is coming from. The world of restructuring professionals is a small one and associates at top firms absolutely can and do switch sides regularly.

Does this hold true for associates at Skadden/DPW/CGSH? I'm curious about these top firms with restructuring groups that may not be as well regarded as K&E/Weil.

Go on Linkedin, run an advanced search, and see how many associates you can find. There should be a couple of associates who made such a switch every year.

Have 2 friends at WLRK trying to make the switch to RX and one more trying to switch to M&A at EB/BB, but with no success after months of trying. FWIW.

switch to m&a banking or law?