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Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:06 pm
by Anonymous User
I know most (or all) biglaw places give you another chance if you fail the first time around.
What if you weren't a summer there, had lower grades than what they normally look for (essentially, a subpar applicant), and basically got the job after graduation due to incredible luck.
Would they treat you the same as every other associate there or would it be likely they would rescind the offer?
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:22 pm
by Anonymous User
They won't rescind your offer (as you already started working after you find out bar results), but if you fail, you should start looking for another job ASAP.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 4:57 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:They won't rescind your offer (as you already started working after you find out bar results), but if you fail, you should start looking for another job ASAP.
Thanks. Can you elaborate?
Does this mean they'll start pushing you out? So this is a V10...If you find another job, should you just leave the V10 and go elsewhere?
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 8:57 pm
by Anonymous User
Bump. I'm worried I might be in the same boat.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sat Aug 06, 2016 10:00 pm
by Anonymous User
I know two people who failed the bar. Two were ushered out in approximately a year, maybe a bit more, though both passed second time around. Both landed at other biglaw firms, albeit with a noticeable step down in prestige. If your firm is gangbusters it might not matter, but it's definitely a black mark and puts you at the front of the line to get chopped.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 10:52 am
by Anonymous User
If you fail the bar, you will be pushed out in short order. You cannot recover from it at your original firm.
To be fair, given how easy the bar is, that's a fair consequence for failing.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 11:20 am
by kellyfrost
Anonymous User wrote:If you fail the bar, you will be pushed out in short order. You cannot recover from it at your original firm.
To be fair, given how easy the bar is, that's a fair consequence for failing.
I like how this little bitch is hiding behind the anon feature. He or she is likely a shit attorney and the biggest accomplishment of their career so far, and the foreseeable future, is only passing a bar exam. Good job, counselor!
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:00 pm
by 84651846190
kellyfrost wrote:Anonymous User wrote:If you fail the bar, you will be pushed out in short order. You cannot recover from it at your original firm.
To be fair, given how easy the bar is, that's a fair consequence for failing.
I like how this little bitch is hiding behind the anon feature. He or she is likely a shit attorney and the biggest accomplishment of their career so far, and the foreseeable future, is only passing a bar exam. Good job, counselor!
lol
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:31 pm
by Toni V
Perhaps way too anecdotal but the two V firms I am familiar with proudly claim that they have never recruited an associate who failed the bar.
(Since I have never known an associate who actually failed, hard to guess what happens or know what other factors might go into play.)
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 1:49 pm
by thegrayman
Your firm will make things exceptionally awkward for you if you fail the bar and it will probably light the fuse on your career there. My firm held a cocktail hour for everyone who passed the bar (we all did), I can only imagine how bad that would have been if I hadn't passed. So, if it happens, I think the advice to start looking for a lateral move asap is credited.
That said, I would never look down on someone for failing the bar once, it can happen to anyone.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:32 pm
by kellyfrost
thegrayman wrote:Your firm will make things exceptionally awkward for you if you fail the bar and it will probably light the fuse on your career there. My firm held a cocktail hour for everyone who passed the bar (we all did), I can only imagine how bad that would have been if I hadn't passed. So, if it happens, I think the advice to start looking for a lateral move asap is credited.
That said, I would never look down on someone for failing the bar once, it can happen to anyone.
So you would begin to look down on them after their second failure?
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:39 pm
by 84651846190
kellyfrost wrote:thegrayman wrote:Your firm will make things exceptionally awkward for you if you fail the bar and it will probably light the fuse on your career there. My firm held a cocktail hour for everyone who passed the bar (we all did), I can only imagine how bad that would have been if I hadn't passed. So, if it happens, I think the advice to start looking for a lateral move asap is credited.
That said, I would never look down on someone for failing the bar once, it can happen to anyone.
So you would begin to look down on them after their second failure?
I would, and I don't think that's unreasonable.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 3:41 pm
by sublime
Well this thread certainly raised my stress level.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:06 pm
by Bluem_11
It's a real shame firms do this. The numbers reflect extremely high passage rates from top schools or top students at mediocre schools (the people who end up in big firms). Either you fooled everyone along the way about your study skills or something went horribly wrong/unlucky in your bar prep or test. I firmly believe there should be a mulligan on first fail if you've clearly shown up to then you're the real deal.
I'm aware reality is different from my preference.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:18 pm
by pancakes3
to be fair though, it makes more sense for employment to be bar-dependent than 1L-exam-dependent. it's just super shitty given the sunk costs and expectations tied to the initial decision to extend the offer.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:28 pm
by Single-Malt-Liquor
sublime wrote:Well this thread certainly raised my stress level.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 4:29 pm
by philepistemer
sublime wrote:Well this thread certainly raised my stress level.
Yeah, seriously. Can someone give me an anecdote of a person failing the bar the first time around and having no problems at his firm?
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:04 pm
by Startled Rabbit
sublime wrote:Well this thread certainly raised my stress level.
This.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:33 pm
by Single-Malt-Liquor
If this is truth I'll just deal with it. It's the not knowing if this is truth that's gonna bother me.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 5:55 pm
by Anonymous User
philepistemer wrote:sublime wrote:Well this thread certainly raised my stress level.
Yeah, seriously. Can someone give me an anecdote of a person failing the bar the first time around and having no problems at his firm?
I know of several people that failed the first time, passed the second and were fine.
I am in a slightly different scenario - I passed the bar but I am having significant delays in being admitted due to C&F. I will be admitted, but likely not until I am a 2nd year.
Am I doomed at this firm?
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:06 pm
by bearsfan23
philepistemer wrote:sublime wrote:Well this thread certainly raised my stress level.
Yeah, seriously. Can someone give me an anecdote of a person failing the bar the first time around and having no problems at his firm?
Not a personal anecdote but I've directly asked this question (about failing the bar, not about the applicant part) to attorneys at the firm I'm going to, and was told failing once is not a big deal, but you're gone if you fail twice.
I think that's a reasonable policy and it seems weird to me that a firm would blacklist or fire you after one failure
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:12 pm
by generaltoast
Anonymous User wrote:philepistemer wrote:sublime wrote:Well this thread certainly raised my stress level.
Yeah, seriously. Can someone give me an anecdote of a person failing the bar the first time around and having no problems at his firm?
I know of several people that failed the first time, passed the second and were fine.
I am in a slightly different scenario - I passed the bar but I am having significant delays in being admitted due to C&F. I will be admitted, but likely not until I am a 2nd year.
Am I doomed at this firm?
Any chance you could PM me your C&F issue that's dealying you? Curious if I will run into simialr delays
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:28 pm
by Desert Fox
Honestly people will talk shit for a while, so it's a strike against you.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:34 pm
by Anonymous User
A lot of fearmongering ITT. I'm a second year at a New York V20, and between my firm and my law school/friend group, I know more than a few people who didn't pass the bar the first time, including within my practice group, and as far as I can tell nobody batted an eyelash. I don't know anyone who failed twice, so I'm not sure how continuing failure is treated, but nobody at my firm made it sound like you would be auto-dinged for a second failure. From my experience, at least in transactional, firms are desperate for people who are willing to be on call 24/7 and bill 2000 hours a year, and the bar exam is seen as an archaic joke -- to partners, all that you are is a machine that turns coffee into billable hours, not a counselor at law matlocking it up in the Midwest in the 1950s. FWIW I passed the bar on the first try.
Re: Biglaw and failing bar... if you were/are a subpar applicant
Posted: Sun Aug 07, 2016 6:56 pm
by cron1834
Anonymous User wrote:not a counselor at law matlocking it up in the Midwest in the 1950s. FWIW I passed the bar on the first try.
I LOLed.