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karl.jackson wrote:Hello all,

I cannot help but notice all of the Ivy leaguers on this post whining about where they will end up this summer, so I decided to offer up a bit of inspiration to all my of my fellow fourth Tier brothers and sisters. This past summer (my 1L summer) I clerked with a 180k law firm in a major city while attending a fourth tier law school. Although it is quite difficult, definitely harder than if I were at any Tier 1-2 school, it is possible if you put in the right amount of work effort towards your grades and networking.

The recipe is quite simple. First, during first semester 1L year dedicate all of your time to your studies. Second, during your second semester dedicate most of your time to school and network with the rest.

Hey, congrats on the job. But just to be clear, did you clerk or were you a summer associate? Was there the expectation that you would get an offer to come back, and then a full-time offer?

karl.jackson wrote:Hello all,

I cannot help but notice all of the Ivy leaguers on this post whining about where they will end up this summer, so I decided to offer up a bit of inspiration to all my of my fellow fourth Tier brothers and sisters. This past summer (my 1L summer) I clerked with a 180k law firm in a major city while attending a fourth tier law school. Although it is quite difficult, definitely harder than if I were at any Tier 1-2 school, it is possible if you put in the right amount of work effort towards your grades and networking.

The recipe is quite simple. First, during first semester 1L year dedicate all of your time to your studies. Second, during your second semester dedicate most of your time to school and network with the rest.

Study and network? Shit, I wish I had thought of that.

d

usernotfound wrote:

karl.jackson wrote:Hello all,

I cannot help but notice all of the Ivy leaguers on this post whining about where they will end up this summer, so I decided to offer up a bit of inspiration to all my of my fellow fourth Tier brothers and sisters. This past summer (my 1L summer) I clerked with a 180k law firm in a major city while attending a fourth tier law school. Although it is quite difficult, definitely harder than if I were at any Tier 1-2 school, it is possible if you put in the right amount of work effort towards your grades and networking.

The recipe is quite simple. First, during first semester 1L year dedicate all of your time to your studies. Second, during your second semester dedicate most of your time to school and network with the rest.

Study and network? Shit, I wish I had thought of that.

Yeah.

I mean anything's possible, and I don't want to take away from your getting that summer associate position, OP, but once you're past a certain ranking (certainly well before you get to Tier 4), I think it's really more like 60% luck, and then 10% working hard and 30% networking like your life depends on it. People here don't act like it's impossible because they literally think it's impossible; it's to dissuade the "Well if he could do it, I probably can too" mentality, and to try to get people realistic about what their actual odds will be.

Congrats! That's great.

karl.jackson wrote:I was a summer associate. The firm I worked at use summer clerk and summer associate interchangeably.

To your second question, yes. The expectation I had coming in was to learn as much as possible and do well to receive a offer to return during my 2L summer and then hopefully get a return offer. At the end of my clerkship I was told that the firm is considering extending me an offer for a return visit next summer, and hopefully I can turn that into a permanent offer thereafter.

You might want to consider not using your full real name on here. It took me all of 3 seconds during a break from bar studying to see that the firm you worked at has a pretty good alumni base from your TTTT school, so good job working those connections and good luck to you moving forward.

No one has ever said that 4th tier students can't get biglaw jobs. The point is just to warn people that the statistical likelihood of getting such a job from such a school is low. What is your class rank, and how many other people from your school got 1L summer SAs? How did you get the position - mass mail or through OCI?

dd

A. Nony Mouse wrote:No one has ever said that 4th tier students can't get biglaw jobs. The point is just to warn people that the statistical likelihood of getting such a job from such a school is low. What is your class rank, and how many other people from your school got 1L summer SAs? How did you get the position - mass mail or through OCI?

There were three people from my class of 300 that received Big Law internships after there 1L year. All I am saying is it is possible, and potential students should not be hung up on statistics. Honestly, a person should know who he or she before saying big law is for him or her. The question is are you willing to put in the time and effort regardless of what school you are coming from.

d

karl.jackson wrote:

elendinel wrote:Yeah.

I mean anything's possible, and I don't want to take away from your getting that summer associate position, OP, but once you're past a certain ranking (certainly well before you get to Tier 4), I think it's really more like 60% luck, and then 10% working hard and 30% networking like your life depends on it. People here don't act like it's impossible because they literally think it's impossible; it's to dissuade the "Well if he could do it, I probably can too" mentality, and to try to get people realistic about what their actual odds will be.

I think its more like 50% working hard and 50% luck/networking. Honestly I got lucky and met the right person, and it didn't hurt that I met the firms academic standard. Be that as it may, I recently transferred to a Tier 1 because I learned how important the prestige of a school is in Big Law.

Working hard is important (i.e., you will have zero chance of biglaw at a Tier 4 if you don't work hard), but my point was to say that "working hard" is going to be a default, and therefore not really a big part of what will get a Tier 4 student, specifically, into a biglaw summer associate position. For a Tier 4 specifically, it has to be assumed they worked hard; so the big deciding factors become whether or not they're networking a lot, and whether or not they're lucky enough to find the right person/firm to network with, and whether or not they're lucky enough to get someone to take them seriously despite where they've gone to school.

But seriously dude, congrats on what you achieved. Hope you land a biglaw job too, if that's where you're headed.

bwh8813 wrote:

karl.jackson wrote:I was a summer associate. The firm I worked at use summer clerk and summer associate interchangeably.

To your second question, yes. The expectation I had coming in was to learn as much as possible and do well to receive a offer to return during my 2L summer and then hopefully get a return offer. At the end of my clerkship I was told that the firm is considering extending me an offer for a return visit next summer, and hopefully I can turn that into a permanent offer thereafter.

You might want to consider not using your full real name on here. It took me all of 3 seconds during a break from bar studying to see that the firm you worked at has a pretty good alumni base from your TTTT school, so good job working those connections and good luck to you moving forward.

Second the advice to not use your real name. I heard through the grapevine (not TLS) that you're coming to UT. Welcome aboard!

karl.jackson wrote: There were three people from my class of 300 that received Big Law internships after there 1L year. All I am saying is it is possible, and potential students should not be hung up on statistics.

You're a literal idiot. I hope someone outs you and you get no-offered.

T4 at sticker is the best decision for future students, look where hard work can get 1% of the class!

OP, I understand that you made success while at TTTT and it was credited to your hard work and taking initiative. But it's quite condescending to say that everyone else in similar situation should strive for the star because your case is truly unique. It makes you sound like a humble bragger, especially using your real name. I'd delete this thread and stay low key if I were you. You are an exception and a cool story in the making, but it's not one people take as an example.

karl.jackson wrote:There were three people from my class of 300 that received Big Law internships after there 1L year. All I am saying is it is possible, and potential students should not be hung up on statistics.

karl.jackson wrote:I think its more like 50% working hard and 50% luck/networking. Honestly I got lucky and met the right person, and it didn't hurt that I met the firms academic standard. Be that as it may, I recently transferred to a Tier 1 because I learned how important the prestige of a school is in Big Law.

As a 0L, this is very helpful. Thank you. Resubmitting my app to local TTTT because of this post.

d

TTTier TTT RealiTTTy :*(

Was your connection from your Tttt of ur new transfer school?

karl.jackson wrote:

pancakes3 wrote:

karl.jackson wrote: There were three people from my class of 300 that received Big Law internships after there 1L year. All I am saying is it is possible, and potential students should not be hung up on statistics.

You're a literal idiot. I hope someone outs you and you get no-offered.

First, I expected some haters to emerge. Second, 1L internships are the exception not the rule.

In all seriousness, do you think a situation in which TWO HUNDRED AND NINETY-SEVEN out of THREE HUNDRED students don't get 1L internships is actually inspiring? Or is it more of a huge warning sign to anyone remotely thinking about attending that type of school?

pancakes3 wrote:

karl.jackson wrote: There were three people from my class of 300 that received Big Law internships after there 1L year. All I am saying is it is possible, and potential students should not be hung up on statistics.

You're a literal idiot. I hope someone outs you and you get no-offered.

lol

Bro, first congrats on what you've accomplished. I'm sure you put in the work and it's paid off for you. I hope that the firm gives you an offer and that things continue to work out over at UT.

But you have to realize how lucky you are and that for the other 80-90% of your former classmates, they won't have the same opportunity to go to a large TX firm. There's a reason why most people in these forums say to steer clear of these fourth tier schools, and it's not because of elitism. It's because the likelihood of getting a decent-paying job, not to mention biglaw, from one of these TTTT's is highly unlikely. You're not doing anyone any good by giving them false hope that their outcome is going to be drastically different from the other 250+ people that decided to go there. All outcomes are possible, but not all are probable. Just because you had a good outcome doesn't mean that going to South Texas or w/e is a good call for most people going into law school.

OP also fails to consider that his TTTT takes is the largest law school in the state and in the largest market of the state. Alumni are running around everywhere. Day to day at the firm I work at I run into more of his TTTT ex-school graduates than any other school by far. Shit 2/3 of Houston attorneys come from one of the two local TTTT. 2/3 of the Harris County DA's Office are TTTT grads. Congresspeople here are even TTTT grads.

Of course you can get big law, there is always that 1% chance that the one local TTTT BB partner will like you. Just study and network!

Don't attack this guy. His point was that TTTT's have way bigger problems than whether they will be at Cravath or doing a U.S. Court of Appeals internship.