How much are incoming NYC associates planning on spending on an apartment? Forum

[sublime]

Paying $2500 for a studio on the UES. Went through a broker (~ 1 month rent), because even with the broker fee I'm getting a pretty solid deal on the place). Going through a broker sucks, but a lot of apartments can only be rented through a broker (and, often enough they're higher quality dollar for dollar).

One month rent seems below market rate. Would you mind either posting or PMing me the one you used if you were happy with them?

[imalreadyamember?]

Paying $2500 for a studio on the UES. Went through a broker (~ 1 month rent), because even with the broker fee I'm getting a pretty solid deal on the place). Going through a broker sucks, but a lot of apartments can only be rented through a broker (and, often enough they're higher quality dollar for dollar).

One month rent seems below market rate. Would you mind either posting or PMing me the one you used if you were happy with them?

Ditto here. Assuming they do more than just upper Manhattan, I'd love to know who this broker is.

[Sgtpeppernyc]

Paying $2500 for a studio on the UES. Went through a broker (~ 1 month rent), because even with the broker fee I'm getting a pretty solid deal on the place). Going through a broker sucks, but a lot of apartments can only be rented through a broker (and, often enough they're higher quality dollar for dollar).

One month rent seems below market rate. Would you mind either posting or PMing me the one you used if you were happy with them?

FirstService residential. Had an exclusive on a bunch of rental buildings on the UES - pretty good folks. Cooper & Cooper in NYC also has lower fees.

[sublime]

Paying $2500 for a studio on the UES. Went through a broker (~ 1 month rent), because even with the broker fee I'm getting a pretty solid deal on the place). Going through a broker sucks, but a lot of apartments can only be rented through a broker (and, often enough they're higher quality dollar for dollar).

One month rent seems below market rate. Would you mind either posting or PMing me the one you used if you were happy with them?

FirstService residential. Had an exclusive on a bunch of rental buildings on the UES - pretty good folks. Cooper & Cooper in NYC also has lower fees.

Thanks, I was looking at Cooper and Cooper bc that's what I had heard as well.

[Sgtpeppernyc]

Paying $2500 for a studio on the UES. Went through a broker (~ 1 month rent), because even with the broker fee I'm getting a pretty solid deal on the place). Going through a broker sucks, but a lot of apartments can only be rented through a broker (and, often enough they're higher quality dollar for dollar).

One month rent seems below market rate. Would you mind either posting or PMing me the one you used if you were happy with them?

FirstService residential. Had an exclusive on a bunch of rental buildings on the UES - pretty good folks. Cooper & Cooper in NYC also has lower fees.

Thanks, I was looking at Cooper and Cooper bc that's what I had heard as well.

Yeah, though I prefer to look without a broker - if I find a place where a broker has the exclusive, and I think that the rent + the brokers fee (hypothetically paid over 24 months) is worth it, I just pay for it.

[TheColonel]

W/r/t broker fees, my understanding is that the standard fee is 15%. Usually you have a broker representing you and there's also a listing broker, so the two brokers split the 15%. If your broker is the listing broker, then sometimes they're willing to give you a half-fee since they're not splitting it with anyone.

[mvp99]

can someone explain to me why are brokers necessary these days (for rentals)? Beyond the fact that they make themselves necessary by controlling information and fear mongering. I'm really don't want to use a broker.

[Mr. Peanutbutter]

can someone explain to me why are brokers necessary these days (for rentals)? Beyond the fact that they make themselves necessary by controlling information and fear mongering. I'm really don't want to use a broker.

They're not necessary, they're just used by a lot of lazy landlords because what the fuck do they care the tenant is the one paying for it.

[Br3v]

LLs should care though. By requiring a broker, a LL is making their property relatively more expensive than an equal-but-broker-free property. At least for that percentage of potential-buyers who would prefer to not use a broker.

[sublime]

LLs should care though. By requiring a broker, a LL is making their property relatively more expensive than an equal-but-broker-free property. At least for that percentage of potential-buyers who would prefer to not use a broker.

But if you are in Manhattan, particularly in a desireable area, and your shit is going to fill anyway, fuck it. Especially when currently it seems like Brokers are still the norm, and non-fee places the outlier.

[buddhabelly]

can someone explain to me why are brokers necessary these days (for rentals)? Beyond the fact that they make themselves necessary by controlling information and fear mongering. I'm really don't want to use a broker.

Brokers are easy because they do the legwork for you, you hit them up and spend a day looking at a bunch of places and just pick one. No fuss, no problems. Other than that, no, a broker is a lazy and not smart way to find a good deal on an apartment in the city. If you want a specific building, contact the leasing dep for that building directly. If you don't, troll housing search websites until you find something you like. There is zero need for broker if you don't want one.

[sublime]

can someone explain to me why are brokers necessary these days (for rentals)? Beyond the fact that they make themselves necessary by controlling information and fear mongering. I'm really don't want to use a broker.

Brokers are easy because they do the legwork for you, you hit them up and spend a day looking at a bunch of places and just pick one. No fuss, no problems. Other than that, no, a broker is a lazy and not smart way to find a good deal on an apartment in the city. If you want a specific building, contact the leasing dep for that building directly. If you don't, troll housing search websites until you find something you like. There is zero need for broker if you don't want one.

Living out of state qualify?

[Br3v]

LLs should care though. By requiring a broker, a LL is making their property relatively more expensive than an equal-but-broker-free property. At least for that percentage of potential-buyers who would prefer to not use a broker.

But if you are in Manhattan, particularly in a desireable area, and your shit is going to fill anyway, fuck it. Especially when currently it seems like Brokers are still the norm, and non-fee places the outlier.

Yeah I hear you, and it's not like LLs are engaging in some deep form of game theory when they get sold on a given broker's pitch, but you would think a LL would want to extract the premium resulting from excess demand (excess tenants) by slightly increasing their rates rather than let the broker extract it. Unless my theory isn't giving enough weight to (a) rent control and/or (b) some marketing issues with potential-tenants being scared away by higher base rents (even when mathematically they would be paying the same with a lower base rent + broker).

[buddhabelly]

can someone explain to me why are brokers necessary these days (for rentals)? Beyond the fact that they make themselves necessary by controlling information and fear mongering. I'm really don't want to use a broker.

Brokers are easy because they do the legwork for you, you hit them up and spend a day looking at a bunch of places and just pick one. No fuss, no problems. Other than that, no, a broker is a lazy and not smart way to find a good deal on an apartment in the city. If you want a specific building, contact the leasing dep for that building directly. If you don't, troll housing search websites until you find something you like. There is zero need for broker if you don't want one.

Living out of state qualify?

I don't get why you can't do the legwork even if you're out of state. Pick up a phone. Honestly for the best deal it's best to wait until the very last minute, get a hotel for a week and do your whole apartment search the week you move. You will get a nicer and cheaper apartment than you would have 3 months in advance.

[sublime]

can someone explain to me why are brokers necessary these days (for rentals)? Beyond the fact that they make themselves necessary by controlling information and fear mongering. I'm really don't want to use a broker.

Brokers are easy because they do the legwork for you, you hit them up and spend a day looking at a bunch of places and just pick one. No fuss, no problems. Other than that, no, a broker is a lazy and not smart way to find a good deal on an apartment in the city. If you want a specific building, contact the leasing dep for that building directly. If you don't, troll housing search websites until you find something you like. There is zero need for broker if you don't want one.

Living out of state qualify?

I don't get why you can't do the legwork even if you're out of state. Pick up a phone. Honestly for the best deal it's best to wait until the very last minute, get a hotel for a week and do your whole apartment search the week you move. You will get a nicer and cheaper apartment than you would have 3 months in advance.

Just seems difficult logistically, especially accounting for getting my shit moved through a provided moving company. I was on the fence before, but with the salary increases, and if I can get a broker to do it for a more reasonable amount than 15%, I'll probably just say fuck it and do that, especially since the main opportunity for me to do it would be right after taking the bar, and that probably isn't something I will want to be doing.

[timbs4339]

LLs should care though. By requiring a broker, a LL is making their property relatively more expensive than an equal-but-broker-free property. At least for that percentage of potential-buyers who would prefer to not use a broker.

But if you are in Manhattan, particularly in a desireable area, and your shit is going to fill anyway, fuck it. Especially when currently it seems like Brokers are still the norm, and non-fee places the outlier.

Yeah I hear you, and it's not like LLs are engaging in some deep form of game theory when they get sold on a given broker's pitch, but you would think a LL would want to extract the premium resulting from excess demand (excess tenants) by slightly increasing their rates rather than let the broker extract it. Unless my theory isn't giving enough weight to (a) rent control and/or (b) some marketing issues with potential-tenants being scared away by higher base rents (even when mathematically they would be paying the same with a lower base rent + broker).

This is MFH real estate you are talking about here. You're missing the fact that landlords are lazy. Brokers are lazy too, which also benefits landlords since the broker just wants to get you in an apartment as quickly as possible. They can sense when you are jammed up and need to rent fast. And of course there's plenty of opportunity for landlords and brokers to pull illegal shit with fees during this whole process.

Unless you are wealthy and willing to spend enough to live in the types of buildings that have management companies that will deal directly with tenants, the best brokers are your friends in the city who, if the timing is right and they are moving out, may let you take over their leases or know somebody whose lease you can take over

[1styearlateral]

I think our budget is about $3500 max, but my wife is a lawyer and will be at a PD (she has a soul) and I'll be starting as a 2nd year (we're both clerks) so our income is higher than a single first year. Probably doing Brooklyn because both our offices are downtown and fuck Manhattan (or jersey LOL though it would be cheaper). Probably 1br but 2 would be great if we could. Lastly, would really prefer not to use a broker and we have people who can help look at places, but sometimes the market in that stupid city is set up such that a broker is necessary. Fuck it.

The biggest problem is that apts and brokers all need their shit up front. Well listen, I'll be making quite a bit of money soon enough but I won't have it when I show up. But if we find a place we want for a couple years, at near our max, where they will want a security deposit, thay could be $7k plus the fucking massive broker fee. I have a quick turnaround before my wife starts, her job isn't gonna advance her salary, and we can't accept money while working for judges. So we're in a bit of a pickle there and might have to live with her parents and commute about 45 min by train from Long Island for a month or two (ugh seriously shoot me).

I wish I could find a place that will give me a couple weeks but that seems unlikely. I'm rambling now and sure nobody cares.

If your budget is $3500 you could get a great place (great 2 be or AMAZING 1 br) in Hoboken right next to th Path. Be downtown in 10 min. But if your wife is going to be a PD, she might be required to be a NY resident (not sure about that though).

[Anonymous User]

Anon because sharing enough to maybe out myself.

No loans (paid off 6 months after school since I was a night student with a good job). Bought a house in NJ ~$3800 all in for mortgage and property tax. Its a bit tight but with 2 kids it was necessary and I have to do the maintenance myself for the most part to save a bit. Pretty handy though and can do carpentry etc.

Tax savings for being in NJ are significant.

[dixiecupdrinking]

NYC brokers don't work for you. They work for the landlord. They show the apartment for the landlord and they screen tenants for the landlord. You just pay them. Realizing this is step one to understanding how fucked the NYC rental market is. If you have even a little time, you're better off going on streeteasy or craigslist and lining up a bunch of places rather than having a broker take you around to whatever they feel like showing you. You might still have to pay a broker because it's all a huge scam, but you won't be taking whatever shitty deals they think they can pawn off on you because you're a walking ATM machine from out of town.

[imalreadyamember?]

I think our budget is about $3500 max, but my wife is a lawyer and will be at a PD (she has a soul) and I'll be starting as a 2nd year (we're both clerks) so our income is higher than a single first year. Probably doing Brooklyn because both our offices are downtown and fuck Manhattan (or jersey LOL though it would be cheaper). Probably 1br but 2 would be great if we could. Lastly, would really prefer not to use a broker and we have people who can help look at places, but sometimes the market in that stupid city is set up such that a broker is necessary. Fuck it.

The biggest problem is that apts and brokers all need their shit up front. Well listen, I'll be making quite a bit of money soon enough but I won't have it when I show up. But if we find a place we want for a couple years, at near our max, where they will want a security deposit, thay could be $7k plus the fucking massive broker fee. I have a quick turnaround before my wife starts, her job isn't gonna advance her salary, and we can't accept money while working for judges. So we're in a bit of a pickle there and might have to live with her parents and commute about 45 min by train from Long Island for a month or two (ugh seriously shoot me).

I wish I could find a place that will give me a couple weeks but that seems unlikely. I'm rambling now and sure nobody cares.

If your budget is $3500 you could get a great place (great 2 be or AMAZING 1 br) in Hoboken right next to th Path. Be downtown in 10 min. But if your wife is going to be a PD, she might be required to be a NY resident (not sure about that though).

Anon because sharing enough to maybe out myself.

Tax savings for being in NJ are significant.

The PATH would be really convenient because it spits out close to our jobs on the Manhattan side. And the savings would definitely be significant. Do you have to pay any NY/NYC income taxes or just NJ, and how much lower would it be? If we're just renting, then other than lower rent, would we save a lot (e.g., taxes and other stuff I haven't thought of)?

One main problem is that my wife is from Long Island and her parents still live there. We lived in Brooklyn for a short time before we moved away to clerk, and it was convenient and nice being about 30-45 min drive from her parents. They could stop by to visit, bring us stuff... we stored/will store our car at their house, and they can just pop over and bring it to us easily, that sort of thing. So living in NJ would double that time (and even more when there's terrible city/tunnel traffic. So the location would be convenient for work but really inconvenient for that purpose.

If the cost savings are really really significant then we need to consider the option but it might be too hard for us.

[bretby]

NYC brokers don't work for you. They work for the landlord. They show the apartment for the landlord and they screen tenants for the landlord. You just pay them. Realizing this is step one to understanding how fucked the NYC rental market is. If you have even a little time, you're better off going on streeteasy or craigslist and lining up a bunch of places rather than having a broker take you around to whatever they feel like showing you. You might still have to pay a broker because it's all a huge scam, but you won't be taking whatever shitty deals they think they can pawn off on you because you're a walking ATM machine from out of town.

There are a lot of downsides to a broker, but the major upside is that is far and away the easiest way to move to the city. You don't want to be penny wise and pound foolish. It is very difficult to look for apartments without a broker when you don't know the neighborhoods well, aren't really sure what a reasonable rent for a given space is, are pressed for time, etc., etc. I think using a broker for your first apartment is the way to go then, after you are more familiar with the city/your habits and needs, walk around desirable neighborhoods and ask doormen/call the management company.

[2014]

Most firms reimburse you and then you pay tax on the reimbursement

Have you gone through this yet? Most NY firms don't pay the whole thing. It's possible some do, but the ones I'm familiar with either only pay part or all up to a cap that you will likely exceed.

[1styearlateral]

I think our budget is about $3500 max, but my wife is a lawyer and will be at a PD (she has a soul) and I'll be starting as a 2nd year (we're both clerks) so our income is higher than a single first year. Probably doing Brooklyn because both our offices are downtown and fuck Manhattan (or jersey LOL though it would be cheaper). Probably 1br but 2 would be great if we could. Lastly, would really prefer not to use a broker and we have people who can help look at places, but sometimes the market in that stupid city is set up such that a broker is necessary. Fuck it.

The biggest problem is that apts and brokers all need their shit up front. Well listen, I'll be making quite a bit of money soon enough but I won't have it when I show up. But if we find a place we want for a couple years, at near our max, where they will want a security deposit, thay could be $7k plus the fucking massive broker fee. I have a quick turnaround before my wife starts, her job isn't gonna advance her salary, and we can't accept money while working for judges. So we're in a bit of a pickle there and might have to live with her parents and commute about 45 min by train from Long Island for a month or two (ugh seriously shoot me).

I wish I could find a place that will give me a couple weeks but that seems unlikely. I'm rambling now and sure nobody cares.

If your budget is $3500 you could get a great place (great 2 be or AMAZING 1 br) in Hoboken right next to th Path. Be downtown in 10 min. But if your wife is going to be a PD, she might be required to be a NY resident (not sure about that though).

Anon because sharing enough to maybe out myself.

Tax savings for being in NJ are significant.

The PATH would be really convenient because it spits out close to our jobs on the Manhattan side. And the savings would definitely be significant. Do you have to pay any NY/NYC income taxes or just NJ, and how much lower would it be? If we're just renting, then other than lower rent, would we save a lot (e.g., taxes and other stuff I haven't thought of)?

One main problem is that my wife is from Long Island and her parents still live there. We lived in Brooklyn for a short time before we moved away to clerk, and it was convenient and nice being about 30-45 min drive from her parents. They could stop by to visit, bring us stuff... we stored/will store our car at their house, and they can just pop over and bring it to us easily, that sort of thing. So living in NJ would double that time (and even more when there's terrible city/tunnel traffic. So the location would be convenient for work but really inconvenient for that purpose.

If the cost savings are really really significant then we need to consider the option but it might be too hard for us.

You pay NJ state income and NYC tax, but I received nearly all of the NYC taxes I paid back on my return. If you're going to be spending north of $3k/mo. in rent in Hoboken, you'll more than likely be getting a parking spot with that. To compare, I pay $2,800/mo. for a 2 bed, 2 bath that includes a deeded parking spot (W/D too!). Granted, I'm not near the Path (I'm uptown), and the closer you get to the Path the more expensive the apartments, but not that much more. It's not a luxury condo by any means (no doorman), but it's definitely more than habitable.

I think having to have 2 people drive 30-45 min to drop a car off is pretty inconvenient for everyone involved, but to each his own. And if it were me, I wouldn't mind putting 2 rivers between me and my wife's parents.

I only play devil's advocate because I'm pretty familiar with the NYC real estate market and Williamsburg, Bed Stuy, Park Slope, and Bushwick are all nearing Manhattan-esq prices. I had a buddy who lived in Crown Heights, and that place is a dump. Plus, the commute isn't that great because the subway cars are PACKED in the mornings and it's not uncommon to have to let one go by in order to squeeze in the next.

Honestly, unless you're within walking distance or a 3-5 subway stop away from work, you're just going to have to pick your poison. I make the NJ to NY commute work for me, but I definitely wouldn't mind being closer to the office. That being said, I don't think my moving from Hoboken to Brooklyn would really change my commute and would increase my rent or decrease my standard of living.

[Anonymous User]

I think our budget is about $3500 max, but my wife is a lawyer and will be at a PD (she has a soul) and I'll be starting as a 2nd year (we're both clerks) so our income is higher than a single first year. Probably doing Brooklyn because both our offices are downtown and fuck Manhattan (or jersey LOL though it would be cheaper). Probably 1br but 2 would be great if we could. Lastly, would really prefer not to use a broker and we have people who can help look at places, but sometimes the market in that stupid city is set up such that a broker is necessary. Fuck it.

The biggest problem is that apts and brokers all need their shit up front. Well listen, I'll be making quite a bit of money soon enough but I won't have it when I show up. But if we find a place we want for a couple years, at near our max, where they will want a security deposit, thay could be $7k plus the fucking massive broker fee. I have a quick turnaround before my wife starts, her job isn't gonna advance her salary, and we can't accept money while working for judges. So we're in a bit of a pickle there and might have to live with her parents and commute about 45 min by train from Long Island for a month or two (ugh seriously shoot me).

I wish I could find a place that will give me a couple weeks but that seems unlikely. I'm rambling now and sure nobody cares.

If your budget is $3500 you could get a great place (great 2 be or AMAZING 1 br) in Hoboken right next to th Path. Be downtown in 10 min. But if your wife is going to be a PD, she might be required to be a NY resident (not sure about that though).

Anon because sharing enough to maybe out myself.

Tax savings for being in NJ are significant.

The PATH would be really convenient because it spits out close to our jobs on the Manhattan side. And the savings would definitely be significant. Do you have to pay any NY/NYC income taxes or just NJ, and how much lower would it be? If we're just renting, then other than lower rent, would we save a lot (e.g., taxes and other stuff I haven't thought of)?

One main problem is that my wife is from Long Island and her parents still live there. We lived in Brooklyn for a short time before we moved away to clerk, and it was convenient and nice being about 30-45 min drive from her parents. They could stop by to visit, bring us stuff... we stored/will store our car at their house, and they can just pop over and bring it to us easily, that sort of thing. So living in NJ would double that time (and even more when there's terrible city/tunnel traffic. So the location would be convenient for work but really inconvenient for that purpose.

If the cost savings are really really significant then we need to consider the option but it might be too hard for us.

You pay NJ state income and NYC tax, but I received nearly all of the NYC taxes I paid back on my return. If you're going to be spending north of $3k/mo. in rent in Hoboken, you'll more than likely be getting a parking spot with that. To compare, I pay $2,800/mo. for a 2 bed, 2 bath that includes a deeded parking spot (W/D too!). Granted, I'm not near the Path (I'm uptown), and the closer you get to the Path the more expensive the apartments, but not that much more. It's not a luxury condo by any means (no doorman), but it's definitely more than habitable.

I think having to have 2 people drive 30-45 min to drop a car off is pretty inconvenient for everyone involved, but to each his own. And if it were me, I wouldn't mind putting 2 rivers between me and my wife's parents.

I only play devil's advocate because I'm pretty familiar with the NYC real estate market and Williamsburg, Bed Stuy, Park Slope, and Bushwick are all nearing Manhattan-esq prices. I had a buddy who lived in Crown Heights, and that place is a dump. Plus, the commute isn't that great because the subway cars are PACKED in the mornings and it's not uncommon to have to let one go by in order to squeeze in the next.

Honestly, unless you're within walking distance or a 3-5 subway stop away from work, you're just going to have to pick your poison. I make the NJ to NY commute work for me, but I definitely wouldn't mind being closer to the office. That being said, I don't think my moving from Hoboken to Brooklyn would really change my commute and would increase my rent or decrease my standard of living.

One of the anons above:

NY City tax is 3.65% with virtually no deductions, that would come out to be like $6500 a year on $180k by itself that you save by being in NJ. Depending on your office your commute from NJ transit - Penn or Ferry or Path will be about the same time as a commute from BK or Queens. A 3 bedroom townhouse in my town rents for about $3k and its walking distance to a 40 minute train from Penn in one of the top school districts in the country. Definitely not insignificant even if you're not in the Hoboken/Jersey City area.

[imalreadyamember?]

You pay NJ state income and NYC tax, but I received nearly all of the NYC taxes I paid back on my return. If you're going to be spending north of $3k/mo. in rent in Hoboken, you'll more than likely be getting a parking spot with that. To compare, I pay $2,800/mo. for a 2 bed, 2 bath that includes a deeded parking spot (W/D too!). Granted, I'm not near the Path (I'm uptown), and the closer you get to the Path the more expensive the apartments, but not that much more. It's not a luxury condo by any means (no doorman), but it's definitely more than habitable.

I think having to have 2 people drive 30-45 min to drop a car off is pretty inconvenient for everyone involved, but to each his own. And if it were me, I wouldn't mind putting 2 rivers between me and my wife's parents.

I only play devil's advocate because I'm pretty familiar with the NYC real estate market and Williamsburg, Bed Stuy, Park Slope, and Bushwick are all nearing Manhattan-esq prices. I had a buddy who lived in Crown Heights, and that place is a dump. Plus, the commute isn't that great because the subway cars are PACKED in the mornings and it's not uncommon to have to let one go by in order to squeeze in the next.

Honestly, unless you're within walking distance or a 3-5 subway stop away from work, you're just going to have to pick your poison. I make the NJ to NY commute work for me, but I definitely wouldn't mind being closer to the office. That being said, I don't think my moving from Hoboken to Brooklyn would really change my commute and would increase my rent or decrease my standard of living.

I like my wife's parents, but we got married 2 weeks ago so give it time. I would love to walk to work, but everywhere in walking distance is pretty expensive too while being tiny compared to BK---we're planning on looking in Lower Manhattan but not getting our hopes up. I lived in FiDi for my SA and absolutely loved walking to work and not having to squeeze in a subway car. Then again that was summer, and walking 15-20 min in winter might be awful too.

I think we need to go to Hoboken and actually see how we like it before we decide. We love Brooklyn but yeah it's getting way too expensive in some areas. Good point about Crown Heights. There are some nice apts there but the commute is not great. We lived in Park Slope before and my wife commuted on the R train which was awful. ETA: wouldn't those same trains from Crown Heights be packed if we had a closer commute, or do a lot of people get off at Borough Hall-ish? If we end up on the same line anyway that's a consideration. Is there any GOOD subway line at all?

We're thinking about somewhere in shallow BK like BK Heights if we can find a place, and we might just bite the bullet on rent if it's convenient. We could walk the bridge to work in theory but idk if that would ever actually happen. We like having a nice place to live and we don't go out drinking (although we eat out too much), so I guess higher rent isn't the worst thing. I would rather have a short, easy commute and pay $500-1000 more, because I'm kind of a wuss. In my current job I drive 45 min each way, and I really really want something easy for a change.