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Fenwick and West doesn't come to my school's OCI so there is no data. Still want to mail in for an interview. How selective is FW grade wise?

Not selective at all for HYS. Summer offers in past years were made to individuals at the bottom of the class, and overall about as selective as Orrick/WSGR/MLB and less selective than Latham/MoFo/GDC.

You can be median or below median at HYSB. If you're not at one of those T14s, you're likely going to need better grades and/or relevant technical work experience.

I'm not sure re the above. They're fairly unselective grades wise across the board I believe. They've offered below median at my non B T14 more than once. Basically in line with WSGR grade-wise.

Fenwick associate here who lateraled from a firm that was INSANE ABOUT GRADES. Fenwick honestly seems to focus on other things in hiring than grades. Fit is really important, but I can't put my finger on what "fit" means. Compared to my prior firm, Fenwick is a lot more diverse not based only on number of women/minorities/LGBT, but also in work styles, personalities, etc. So there isn't some cookie-cutter personality type they look for. I think what they mean by fit is that you can't be an asshat or douchebag. My coworkers are good to work with and I actually like them as people. The other attorneys from other groups I meet are also cool too. Compared to my prior experience, it is shocking.

Anonymous User wrote:Fenwick associate here who lateraled from a firm that was INSANE ABOUT GRADES. Fenwick honestly seems to focus on other things in hiring than grades. Fit is really important, but I can't put my finger on what "fit" means. Compared to my prior firm, Fenwick is a lot more diverse not based only on number of women/minorities/LGBT, but also in work styles, personalities, etc. So there isn't some cookie-cutter personality type they look for. I think what they mean by fit is that you can't be an asshat or douchebag. My coworkers are good to work with and I actually like them as people. The other attorneys from other groups I meet are also cool too. Compared to my prior experience, it is shocking.

Thanks for this. Which firm were you with previously and which market? I understand this is sensitive so range is fine: V5/V10, etc.? Do they really prefer B to other T14?

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Fenwick associate here who lateraled from a firm that was INSANE ABOUT GRADES. Fenwick honestly seems to focus on other things in hiring than grades. Fit is really important, but I can't put my finger on what "fit" means. Compared to my prior firm, Fenwick is a lot more diverse not based only on number of women/minorities/LGBT, but also in work styles, personalities, etc. So there isn't some cookie-cutter personality type they look for. I think what they mean by fit is that you can't be an asshat or douchebag. My coworkers are good to work with and I actually like them as people. The other attorneys from other groups I meet are also cool too. Compared to my prior experience, it is shocking.

Thanks for this. Which firm were you with previously and which market? I understand this is sensitive so range is fine: V5/V10, etc.? Do they really prefer B to other T14?

V5, no change in market. I don't think there is a preference for Boalt grads over other T14s. I think it might be the other way around-it seems more like Boalt grads prefer Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen etc. more than others at other T14s, if that makes sense. I am involved in recruiting and the reason we don't go to more T14s is that there is just not a lot of interest in CA/Fenwick. I'll admit that 2L CCN me would have never considered Fenwick due to rankings.

If you are interested, of course send in your stuff to recruiting, but try to find an alumni from your school at Fenwick and reach out to them too, preferably in a practice area you are interested in but I don't even think that matters much. They will likely be happy to hear from you.

On that note, what practice area are you interested in?

Great advice, thank you for jumping in this thread. I'm interested in corporate and financing deals specifically. Looking at the roster of Fenwick's clients it's clear they are a tech firm. Is there any general advice on expressing interest in tech (above the general millennial addiction to technology)? I didn't major in programming in ugrad but I am genuinely interested in computers.

Mozart Lacrimosa wrote:Great advice, thank you for jumping in this thread. I'm interested in corporate and financing deals specifically. Looking at the roster of Fenwick's clients it's clear they are a tech firm. Is there any general advice on expressing interest in tech (above the general millennial addiction to technology)? I didn't major in programming in ugrad but I am genuinely interested in computers.

Not specifically no, but not many attorneys int he corporate group have a tech background.

if you're interested in bay area and similar work, check out WSGR. i'm currently here, and they've done a lot to improve culture. associates are generally a pretty happy bunch.

Anonymous User wrote:if you're interested in bay area and similar work, check out WSGR. i'm currently here, and they've done a lot to improve culture. associates are generally a pretty happy bunch.

Out of curiosity, what did WSGR do to improve culture? I am the Fenwick associate above, and culture/diversity is the main reason I chose Fenwick over WSGR and some others. But this was years and years ago.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:if you're interested in bay area and similar work, check out WSGR. i'm currently here, and they've done a lot to improve culture. associates are generally a pretty happy bunch.

Out of curiosity, what did WSGR do to improve culture? I am the Fenwick associate above, and culture/diversity is the main reason I chose Fenwick over WSGR and some others. But this was years and years ago.

Diff WSGR corporate associate here (seems to be a lot of us). I agree that I'm happy and most junior associates I talk to think they treat us pretty well. First of all the juniors are in a pool and are assigned work from different groups. At the very least it means that the groups have to compete for juniors' time, though I'm not so sure that does a lot. With the pool system they've also implemented some more oversight and partner committees that may have improved things.

Also many of the partner groups have consolidated as I understand in recent years and maybe some cultural changes came about there. Maybe they've just made it an initiative to develop a better reputation amongst law student and laterals.

To be honest though I don't really know where the old bad rep came from. When I talk to other juniors we generally just don't really understand it. Maybe mid levels have better insight.

Anonymous User wrote:Fenwick associate here who lateraled from a firm that was INSANE ABOUT GRADES. Fenwick honestly seems to focus on other things in hiring than grades. Fit is really important, but I can't put my finger on what "fit" means. Compared to my prior firm, Fenwick is a lot more diverse not based only on number of women/minorities/LGBT, but also in work styles, personalities, etc. So there isn't some cookie-cutter personality type they look for. I think what they mean by fit is that you can't be an asshat or douchebag. My coworkers are good to work with and I actually like them as people. The other attorneys from other groups I meet are also cool too. Compared to my prior experience, it is shocking.

Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen are my dream firm because I want to do corporate for tech startups from incorporation to IPO to licensing to basically everything. The thing is that I don't have ties to CA and I don't go to law school in CA. No alum of my law school is found in Fenwick. I am a rising 3L and have work experience at tech company. No tech background but I am summering in the IP practice group now. My 1L grade is bad but 2L grade is 30%ish (one of semesters is 15%ish) at T30.

Can anyone recommend ways to have a chance at Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen? How international Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen is?

Anyone can answer the Fenwick question? I am also interested!

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Fenwick associate here who lateraled from a firm that was INSANE ABOUT GRADES. Fenwick honestly seems to focus on other things in hiring than grades. Fit is really important, but I can't put my finger on what "fit" means. Compared to my prior firm, Fenwick is a lot more diverse not based only on number of women/minorities/LGBT, but also in work styles, personalities, etc. So there isn't some cookie-cutter personality type they look for. I think what they mean by fit is that you can't be an asshat or douchebag. My coworkers are good to work with and I actually like them as people. The other attorneys from other groups I meet are also cool too. Compared to my prior experience, it is shocking.

Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen are my dream firm because I want to do corporate for tech startups from incorporation to IPO to licensing to basically everything. The thing is that I don't have ties to CA and I don't go to law school in CA. No alum of my law school is found in Fenwick. I am a rising 3L and have work experience at tech company. No tech background but I am summering in the IP practice group now. My 1L grade is bad but 2L grade is 30%ish (one of semesters is 15%ish) at T30.

Can anyone recommend ways to have a chance at Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen? How international Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen is?

I lateraled to one of these firms after 1.5 years from an east coast market, where I worked in IP practice group (specifically patents) at a V50-100. I went to a T20 and had maybe top 40% grades. I have a couple of technical degrees (B.S. and M.S.). Law school was east coast, but undergrad and ties are in CA. Not sure how I landed the gig, but I interviewed for tech transaction positions, which was pretty in demand at the time (probably still is). I think the most important thing for me was having gotten some experience with deals and being able to sell that. I don't think the technical degrees gave much of a boost. I also don't think ties are that necessary either. I think it might be easier given your position to also look for tech trans positions, as opposed to general corporate positions. You can always switch practice areas later on.

Anonymous User wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:Fenwick associate here who lateraled from a firm that was INSANE ABOUT GRADES. Fenwick honestly seems to focus on other things in hiring than grades. Fit is really important, but I can't put my finger on what "fit" means. Compared to my prior firm, Fenwick is a lot more diverse not based only on number of women/minorities/LGBT, but also in work styles, personalities, etc. So there isn't some cookie-cutter personality type they look for. I think what they mean by fit is that you can't be an asshat or douchebag. My coworkers are good to work with and I actually like them as people. The other attorneys from other groups I meet are also cool too. Compared to my prior experience, it is shocking.

Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen are my dream firm because I want to do corporate for tech startups from incorporation to IPO to licensing to basically everything. The thing is that I don't have ties to CA and I don't go to law school in CA. No alum of my law school is found in Fenwick. I am a rising 3L and have work experience at tech company. No tech background but I am summering in the IP practice group now. My 1L grade is bad but 2L grade is 30%ish (one of semesters is 15%ish) at T30.

Can anyone recommend ways to have a chance at Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen? How international Fenwick/WSGR/Gundersen is?

Junior associate at one of those firms. Since you wanted an answer...

It doesn't look great from you. Very few 3Ls get hired at any of those firms, though some do. The above poster seems about right. That strategy is probably the best but not really anything to bank on. All you can do now is to try to improve your grades, pad your resume with entrepreneurial work and try to convince those firms you really want to be there.

I always tell people that the SV firms are more relaxed in terms of grades, that means we'll dip closer to median at a T14 if you have compelling reasons for wanting to work here and seem like a good fit. It also means we will dip below 10% at a couple (like literally two) regional schools for the same reason. But the standards are still fairly high generally. Mostly T17s plus Hasting and Santa Clara. If you're not at one of those schools, and maybe Davis, it is hard to get noticed for general corporate it seems to me. The exception is if you lateral from a NYC V15 type or maybe a national V20ish firm.

Thanks very much for your good answers, guys.

What do you mean by "pad your resume with entrepreneurial work?" Start my business while in school? :p I have been attending startup meetups and seminars just for fun but that is it. Prior to law school, I did new biz dev/strategy, etc.

Plus, how are 3Ls recruited? Mass-mailing?

More fit than grades, as others have said. They like corporate top firm NYC laterals, a lot, who tend to have better academics than their younger associates. I've seen median T6 students get jobs there but I've also seen honors students turned away.

Re: 3Ls, would it help if you had a tech background/extensive ties to CA, and worked in transactional for SA?