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People say big law working hours are awful. Exactly how awful is it? Can you guys share your experience sth along the lines like "150ish-person shop, making 150K, works 9-8. SF"? More general version is ok as long as the no of lawyers is over 100.

All I can say is I'm in an office 8-5:30 and have a hard time breaking 7 hours of work. That's 35 hrs a week at 5 day weeks. With 2 weeks vacation, I would be far short of 2000 hours.

You still have to eat, shit, take a coffee break, go to meetings/trainings, and handle personal matters throughout a week so you'll never come close to billing as much time you spend in the office.

9-8 5 days a week with 2 weeks vacation wouldn't even come close to billable requirements in NYC or SF.

I love you, dude, but aren't you on a 1L SA? Do you think that really counts as hours worked at a big law firm?

I think biglaw hours are exactly why in house positions are so desirable, although I've heard that even sometimes in house hours can be somewhat brutal.

PeanutsNJam wrote:All I can say is I'm in an office 8-5:30 and have a hard time breaking 7 hours of work. That's 35 hrs a week at 5 day weeks. With 2 weeks vacation, I would be far short of 2000 hours.

You still have to eat, shit, take a coffee break, go to meetings/trainings, and handle personal matters throughout a week so you'll never come close to billing as much time you spend in the office.

9-8 5 days a week with 2 weeks vacation wouldn't even come close to billable requirements in NYC or SF.

because a 1L SA in a secondary market is totally representative of an NYC/SF associate position

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I love you, dude, but aren't you on a 1L SA? Do you think that really counts as hours worked at a big law firm?

Yeah I'm saying I'm working way less than a full time associate doing way less sophisticated work, and it's already hard to log enough hours. Idk what the confusion is.

PeanutsNJam wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I love you, dude, but aren't you on a 1L SA? Do you think that really counts as hours worked at a big law firm?

Yeah I'm saying I'm working way less than a full time associate doing way less sophisticated work, and it's already hard to log enough hours. Idk what the confusion is.

Probably just meant that it is hard to know what it is really like to bill at a biglaw firm until you are an actual associate.

Lacepiece23 wrote:

PeanutsNJam wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:I love you, dude, but aren't you on a 1L SA? Do you think that really counts as hours worked at a big law firm?

Yeah I'm saying I'm working way less than a full time associate doing way less sophisticated work, and it's already hard to log enough hours. Idk what the confusion is.

Probably just meant that it is hard to know what it is really like to bill at a biglaw firm until you are an actual associate.

Yeah, this was pretty much it. I'm not sure that "it's hard to log enough hours as a 1L SA" is really responsive to "how many hours do you really work at a large law firm," is all, especially since the OP didn't make any distinction between billing/working.

OP: just read this

https://www.law.yale.edu/student-life/c ... lable-hour

There are so many threads on this, I can't imagine the value of going through the exercise again. But, when I worked in Biglaw (5 years, lit. associate), my hours were generally 9-7 M-F, with maybe another 5-10 hours per week spread among various weeknights or weekend work. Obviously, there were stretches (during crunch times, depos, and leading up to big filings) where I was working more like 8a-9p, 6 or 7 days per week. And during and immediately preceding trials it's basically work during all waking hours (maybe 14-16 hours per day), 7 days per week.

If you're not working a lot something is wrong with either you or your firm. There's nothing reassuring about consistently going home at 6.

PeanutsNJam wrote:OP: just read this

https://www.law.yale.edu/student-life/c ... lable-hour

Don't read that, because that's fucking stupid. Who the fuck takes an hour lunch every fucking day?

PnJ - just stop posting about shit you don't have first-hand knowledge about. We have enough lawyers here to give real answers without your vague bullshit.

I am around 2300 hours for the year and work 8:30-630 with a half saturday/sunday for 4 hours. I take 12 minutes to eat lunch at my desk and chat up people for another 15 or so. I bill at least 9 hours without issue. If I am not billing, I go home. This is not hard. I do not understand how people do not spend every minute (minus lunch) billing.

I am at one of the larger corporate shops in a large secondary market. I get to the office at about 9am most days and usually leave between 8-9pm. I usually have to log on from home for at least an hour between 9pm-midnight. I usually get stuck at the office till 2am one or two nights a week and working an entire weekend once a month would be pretty average. The other weekends I typically bill about 6-8 hours one day and take the other off. My average billable month is 225 (with months like January and sometimes December being much slower unless I am closing a deal in December). The hours are longer than the billables imply and I am not even in NYC/SF/DC.

Also, the other concern is when you are slow it is not like "oh yay, lets just relax!" you are still in the office from 9-5 even if you bill nothing (unless you are on vacation or something) and then you start worrying about hours and how one super low hour week kills those 3 all nighters you put in the week before.

Anon above me: are you in litigation? This is definitely not how it is in corporate. It is easy not to bill 9 hours after closing a bunch of deals because you don't have instant turnaround on deals.

Anonymous User wrote:I am around 2300 hours for the year and work 8:30-630 with a half saturday/sunday for 4 hours. I take 12 minutes to eat lunch at my desk and chat up people for another 15 or so. I bill at least 9 hours without issue. If I am not billing, I go home. This is not hard. I do not understand how people do not spend every minute (minus lunch) billing.

the 4 minutes you spent reading and replying to this probably shouldn't have been billed

First Offense wrote:

PeanutsNJam wrote:OP: just read this

https://www.law.yale.edu/student-life/c ... lable-hour

Don't read that, because that's fucking stupid. Who the fuck takes an hour lunch every fucking day?

PnJ - just stop posting about shit you don't have first-hand knowledge about. We have enough lawyers here to give real answers without your vague bullshit.

My lunch consists of a homemade sandwich that takes me three hours to eat because shit keeps coming up.

Very sad.

Anonymous User wrote:I am around 2300 hours for the year and work 8:30-630 with a half saturday/sunday for 4 hours. I take 12 minutes to eat lunch at my desk and chat up people for another 15 or so. I bill at least 9 hours without issue. If I am not billing, I go home. This is not hard. I do not understand how people do not spend every minute (minus lunch) billing.

Pretty much ditto - Third year >V50 trans/reg associate in secondary market. Salary not relevant to question presented.

Typical day is 8:30-7 with a 10-20 minute lunch, a couple bathroom breaks and a non-billable meeting every couple days with 4-8 hours every other weekend, usually reserved for a non-billable client development article or something that can be done with a beer in hand. Generally, if I'm sitting in the office, I'm billing. Also do a lot of non-billable community work in off hours and weekends. IMHO, if you don't hit your hours, you're doing it wrong because doing it right means you should have found the work or a different job or practice group.

Anonymous User wrote:I am at one of the larger corporate shops in a large secondary market. I get to the office at about 9am most days and usually leave between 8-9pm. I usually have to log on from home for at least an hour between 9pm-midnight. I usually get stuck at the office till 2am one or two nights a week and working an entire weekend once a month would be pretty average. The other weekends I typically bill about 6-8 hours one day and take the other off. My average billable month is 225 (with months like January and sometimes December being much slower unless I am closing a deal in December). The hours are longer than the billables imply and I am not even in NYC/SF/DC.

Also, the other concern is when you are slow it is not like "oh yay, lets just relax!" you are still in the office from 9-5 even if you bill nothing (unless you are on vacation or something) and then you start worrying about hours and how one super low hour week kills those 3 all nighters you put in the week before.

Anon above me: are you in litigation? This is definitely not how it is in corporate. It is easy not to bill 9 hours after closing a bunch of deals because you don't have instant turnaround on deals.

What year are you? Billing 2700 is not unheard of, but it is far above median at almost every firm. So, this experience is not "typical" in any sense. Staying at the office until 2am one or two nights per week is crazy -- I probably averaged 5-10 nights like that per year in 5 years of Biglaw in a major market (not NYC)

B0bL0blaw wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I am at one of the larger corporate shops in a large secondary market. I get to the office at about 9am most days and usually leave between 8-9pm. I usually have to log on from home for at least an hour between 9pm-midnight. I usually get stuck at the office till 2am one or two nights a week and working an entire weekend once a month would be pretty average. The other weekends I typically bill about 6-8 hours one day and take the other off. My average billable month is 225 (with months like January and sometimes December being much slower unless I am closing a deal in December). The hours are longer than the billables imply and I am not even in NYC/SF/DC.

Also, the other concern is when you are slow it is not like "oh yay, lets just relax!" you are still in the office from 9-5 even if you bill nothing (unless you are on vacation or something) and then you start worrying about hours and how one super low hour week kills those 3 all nighters you put in the week before.

Anon above me: are you in litigation? This is definitely not how it is in corporate. It is easy not to bill 9 hours after closing a bunch of deals because you don't have instant turnaround on deals.

What year are you? Billing 2700 is not unheard of, but it is far above median at almost every firm. So, this experience is not "typical" in any sense. Staying at the office until 2am one or two nights per week is crazy -- I probably averaged 5-10 nights like that per year in 5 years of Biglaw in a major market (not NYC)

Sorry, should have prefaced this - just a second year, but started early, so been here a little while longer than most 2nd years. I billed 25xx year one (the full billable year) and am on pace for something like 2750 this year. I have been unusually busy this year, but so have most juniors. Many people in my class hit the 1000 hour mark early last month.

This thread shows two extremes. PnJ is way off but some folks here seem kinda psychopathically efficient (or are just really unethical)

In my admittedly limited experience, you'll bill one or two hours in the morning and can probably bill most of the evening.

This means staying until 7:30 or so to hit a nice 8 or more hours on the day. I find that if I'm there past 9 I probably billed 10 or more, depending on the day.

The bigger problem is what DELG was pointing to. It doesn't matter if you were well over 200 hours the month before, leaving at 6 repeatedly would feel weird. I'm sure this varies by firm and group but I know I feel slow if I'm below 170-180 a month and feel very busy when I approach 220 or so. I know folks get in the 250-300 range at times and cannot comprehend it unless it involves lots of billable travel.

My general habit is 9:30-7:30, with relatively little time on the weekends but frequently touching work between 8 and 12 (I'd say there's something small to do in that window most nights.)

I've had some incredibly slow months, and even stretches of months, especially in the billable ledger. (There's an endless supply of pro bono work available.) It's not because they're actively trying to tell me something, though. I just never really found a place at my firm. I get dinged for it in my review session every time.

In May I billed 224 hours (some was pro bono and a handful of "practice development" hours doing some research for a partner).

It sucks. I hope I can find a job where I can make about $100-150K not practicing law and preserve my nights, weekends, and a short commute. But I don't know if those jobs exist.

V10 in NYC/DC/SF/CHI. 9:30-7:30 most days. 10 hours in the office, bill about 8 of them. On average about one weekend a month I'm working the entire weekend, and one week a month when work is 9am-midnight/1am/2am. On course for about 2000. Hard to stress how up and down it is though. I've had months where I billed less than 50 hours, and other months over 300.

V10 M&A in NYC

Midlevel

I work 10 - 8 normally....but last night I pulled an all-nighter and I haven't had a weekend of under 10 billables since March.

On pace for about 2400 this year. M&A is by its nature start and stop work, and those jerks of the chain aren't great for quality of life.

Last year about 2200. In litigation so tried to bill 10 hours every day, but usually would be just short of that. If I had down time, I would work on pro bono. Usually in the office 9:30-7:30ish but obviously there were some later nights and some earlier ones. I ate lunch at my desk unless I was going out with summers or was invited to something. I usually did a few hours of work on the weekends, but often that would just be responding to emails (if I could swing it). Didn't use any vacation though, so that may skew it a bit.

The problem isn't the number of hours. It's when people expect you to get tasks completed in a completely unreasonable amount of time. And it's even worse when three or four or five people are all expecting you to get tasks completed in a completely unreasonable amount of time simultaneously.