Bridgewater Associates v. BigLaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

T10, V10 incoming corp associate here. Friend offered to get me an interview at Bridgewater for a management associate position paying roughly BigLaw salary.

Wanted to get the TLS braintrust on this idea. Any thoughts?

[misterjames]

T10, V10 incoming corp associate here. Friend offered to get me an interview at Bridgewater for a management associate position paying roughly BigLaw salary.

Wanted to get the TLS braintrust on this idea. Any thoughts?

seems easy enough to boil this down to whether or not you want to be lawyer

[deepseapartners]

Bridgewater is a Panopticon masquerading as a hedge fund. That being said, if you have any interest in the buy-side, now's your shot, don't look back.

[Anonymous User]

As a mid level T10 - V10 - Corporate I would do it in a second.

Also, as long as you are prepared interviewing for it is no big deal. Not leaving law yet, just feeling things out.

[Anonymous User]

I wouldn't bank on this working out- the BW interview process can take months and very few people actually get through it, as you have to be an exact culture fit to actually get an offer. Can't hurt to try to get an interview, although your quality of life may not improve much.

[lawlorbust]

Bridgewater is a Panopticon masquerading as a hedge fund. That being said, if you have any interest in the buy-side, now's your shot, don't look back.

This is a position in the buy side (basically a glorified mid/back office gig), not a buy side position.

[Budfox55]

Not sure how much you know about Bridgewater, but to echo some of the ppl above, the process at Bridgwater is really unorthodox. Also, I would try to inquire if there's any sort of career trajectory/advancement. A lot of these types of positions at funds(even larger funds) tend to be blackholes where they lure decently smart ppl in who couldn't get a better finance job elsewhere and have them do a lot bitch work without any means of career advancement. Of course if you don't intend to be a lawyer in the long-run, then this my be your chance to get in even if there is no career advancement as you could always use your experience to lateral.

[Anonymous User]

Bridgewater is a Panopticon masquerading as a hedge fund. That being said, if you have any interest in the buy-side, now's your shot, don't look back.

This is a position in the buy side (basically a glorified mid/back office gig), not a buy side position.

I didn't see this before I posted, but this is exactly what I meant by glorified blackhole with no career advancement if its MO. If its mid-office, your only exit opp is essentially other mid-office jobs. If its back-office, depending on what type of back-office, you might be able to lateral to something more interesting. Are we talking things like reconciling trades and reviewing derivative agreements? Or something like actual high-level strategy that would be more like corp-dev?

[Anonymous User]

Bridgewater is a Panopticon masquerading as a hedge fund. That being said, if you have any interest in the buy-side, now's your shot, don't look back.

This is a position in the buy side (basically a glorified mid/back office gig), not a buy side position.

I didn't see this before I posted, but this is exactly what I meant by glorified blackhole with no career advancement if its MO. If its mid-office, your only exit opp is essentially other mid-office jobs. If its back-office, depending on what type of back-office, you might be able to lateral to something more interesting. Are we talking things like reconciling trades and reviewing derivative agreements? Or something like actual high-level strategy that would be more like corp-dev?

Delete

[Budfox55]

Bridgewater is a Panopticon masquerading as a hedge fund. That being said, if you have any interest in the buy-side, now's your shot, don't look back.

This is a position in the buy side (basically a glorified mid/back office gig), not a buy side position.

I didn't see this before I posted, but this is exactly what I meant by glorified blackhole with no career advancement if its MO. If its mid-office, your only exit opp is essentially other mid-office jobs. If its back-office, depending on what type of back-office, you might be able to lateral to something more interesting. Are we talking things like reconciling trades and reviewing derivative agreements? Or something like actual high-level strategy that would be more like corp-dev?

Didn't mean for this to be anonymous

[MCFC]

http://www.wsj.com/articles/schism-at-t ... 1454695374

Employees at the world’s largest hedge fund carry around iPads with an app called “Pain Button.” It tracks negative feelings like “angry,” “frustrated” and “sad” with the twist of on-screen dials.

Bridgewater founder Ray Dalio and his presumed heir apparent, Greg Jensen, have called for votes on each other’s conduct.
The 66-year-old Mr. Dalio has asked the firm’s management and stakeholders committees if they believe Mr. Jensen, 42, has “integrity.” The term is defined in a 123-page treatise written by Mr. Dalio as never saying something about a person that you wouldn’t tell the person directly.

One former Bridgewater employee recalls debating with other employees for as long as an hour whether a misused apostrophe in one of Mr. Dalio’s research reports was intentional or not.

[Anonymous User]

Get the offer and details first, then ask for opinions.

[WhiteCollarBlueShirt]

http://dealbreaker.com/2012/04/a-wildeb ... get-eaten/

Isn't bridgewater like 10 investment professionals and 1300 mid/back office people (who are basically paid double what most mid/back office make and have much fancier degrees)? Seems risky if you get fired, also sounds interesting and like a good out if you don't want to get trapped as a corporate lawyer who will then go to some other mid/back office position in all likelihood.

I'd do it.

[Anonymous User]

Do not work at Bridgewater. It is much worse than Biglaw. Here are some of my friends' experiences working there:

Ray Dalio reads employees' e-mails and if you say something about someone who isn't CC'd on the e-mail, you will be put "out of the box" and get fired shortly thereafter. One time someone referred to Ray in an e-mail to a colleague about how big the garage parking passes were. Ray forwarded the e-mail to everyone that worked there and then that guy got fired.

I know a consultant who was removed from a project there because he moved chairs out of one conference room and into another for a meeting and then didn't put them back after the meeting.

Everyone there has a "baseball card" which is basically a rap sheet about you that everyone at the company has access too. Employees are encouraged to give negative feedback. Once enough bad stuff is on your baseball card, you are put "out of the box" and subsequently fired.

They have a huge mid/back office and then a separate group whose job it is to find ways to fire people in the mid/back office.

When management is considering putting you "out of the box," they will CC you on the e-mails discussing why you should be fired. The skills you learn are generally not transferable to other funds.

[mvp99]

Bridgewater sounds like hell on earth

[lawlorbust]

Bridgewater is a Panopticon masquerading as a hedge fund. That being said, if you have any interest in the buy-side, now's your shot, don't look back.

This is a position in the buy side (basically a glorified mid/back office gig), not a buy side position.

I didn't see this before I posted, but this is exactly what I meant by glorified blackhole with no career advancement if its MO. If its mid-office, your only exit opp is essentially other mid-office jobs. If its back-office, depending on what type of back-office, you might be able to lateral to something more interesting. Are we talking things like reconciling trades and reviewing derivative agreements? Or something like actual high-level strategy that would be more like corp-dev?

To clarify, I didn't mean by post to be a suggestion that the OP SHOULDN'T do the BW gig over biglaw. I've have quite a few friends do management associate positions at Bridgewater (albeit out of college). An MA's actual role seems quite variable, think anything from chief of staff to the COO to "special projects" for designing their new campus. From what I know, position pays pretty well (generally, support roles in finance do well on that front).

I only meant to respond to a previous poster that this is a chance to "break in" to finance. Whatever the pros of the MA position, it's decidedly not a finance job, and moving from a MO position to a FO investor position is very difficult, and possible impossible at Bridgewater. So don't apply if that's what you're actually interested in. In addition to the "culture" issue (which some people do actually really react well to), the firm's known for very restrictive non-competes, so think about that as you weigh your decision as well.

[lawlorbust]

Bridgewater sounds like hell on earth

TBF, so does big law.

[Anonymous User]

Bridgewater sounds like hell on earth

Can be if you're not the right personality fit for it. I know multiple (4-5) people who have worked there 5+ years and they all seem to like it. both the work and the method of doing business.

BUT it is probably not for many/most people.

that being said, it is considerably different than biglaw. they can work long hours during the week, but never on weekends, and you don't (i.e. you cannot) take work home with you. you are not chained to your phone because you generally don't have one with email on it to carry around with you.

[lacrossebrother]

Working in Westport would be the fucking tits when you're 30+ but I wouldn't do it now. I think id shoot myself after a fourth happy hour at Splash.
Edit: Splash is permanately closed so I don't know where the yuppies can douche out at all now?
Edit2: omg it's called the "inn at the longshore" now.

[Anonymous User]

I interviewed there a few years back for a similar position. Place is weird and the pay is good. I wouldn't go there though unless you are comfortable always being filmed and recorded and having those things be used against you in arguments, bonuses and ultimately whether or not to fire you. Too big brother-ish for me.

[Anonymous User]

OP here. Wow, didn't expect this level of response.

Re: Culture. My friend wanted to recommend me because she thought I'd be a perfect culture fit. I am also personally a huge fan of Dalio's Principles. I really like the way he runs the organization. The results speak for themselves. As the first poster said, I guess this is fundamentally more of a question about whether or not I want to be a lawyer or alternatively if I am ok stagnating in a backoffice role.

The non-compete issue would be pretty serious for me since, working in CT for the rest of my life also sounds like my version of hell. I appreciate all the insight.

[Anonymous User]

It sounds good on paper, but doesn't really operate well in real life when it extends to every minute thing you do. My friend got written up for taking more than one stick of gum because it wasn't "community minded" and another who got a write-up for not reporting that a light bulb was out. They will also go hard on you for not wanting to practice now that you're about to have your degree because it won't fit in their minds as a logical choice, so have an answer for that if you interview.

[Jchance]

I read that book by Ray. Bridgewater sounds like a cool concept on paper, but in reality, they are training real-life robots. I would never want to work there long-term.

[lacrossebrother]

you cant non-compete a lawyer. obviously if youre in ops though that wouldnt help you. but i guess you could always switch back.

[mvp99]

their ROI reminds me of enron