European Biglaw Forum

[Anonymous User]

I came across some related past threads, but most seemed to be over 5 years old.
Background
-LS towards the middle of the T14
-Most interested in practicing cap markets/securities law
-Interested in working within the European office of a U.S. law firm - UK/France/Germany/Spain, etc.
-Speak 3 languages fluently - family lives in one of the above countries.

My inquiries at my LS led me to believe that this is not a particularly well-beaten path.. But for anyone who might have experience:
1) Which are the best U.S. firms to target (with the largest offices) abroad in Europe?
2) How do COLAs work? I'm guessing they're awarded more freely when the firm has a specific overseas need rather than someone having an interest in working abroad..
3) How does the work experience compare? (Pros/Cons, Responsibilities, work/life balance, travel, etc.)
Thank you.

[mvp99]

I came across some related past threads, but most seemed to be over 5 years old.
Background
-LS towards the middle of the T14
-Most interested in practicing cap markets/securities law
-Interested in working within the European office of a U.S. law firm - UK/France/Germany/Spain, etc.
-Speak 3 languages fluently - family lives in one of the above countries.

My inquiries at my LS led me to believe that this is not a particularly well-beaten path.. But for anyone who might have experience:
1) Which are the best U.S. firms to target (with the largest offices) abroad in Europe?
2) How do COLAs work? I'm guessing they're awarded more freely when the firm has a specific overseas need rather than someone having an interest in working abroad..
3) How does the work experience compare? (Pros/Cons, Responsibilities, work/life balance, travel, etc.)
Thank you.

+1. is there any chance to go in house in Europe as a US attorney?

[kellyfrost]

I came across some related past threads, but most seemed to be over 5 years old.
Background
-LS towards the middle of the T14
-Most interested in practicing cap markets/securities law
-Interested in working within the European office of a U.S. law firm - UK/France/Germany/Spain, etc.
-Speak 3 languages fluently - family lives in one of the above countries.

My inquiries at my LS led me to believe that this is not a particularly well-beaten path.. But for anyone who might have experience:
1) Which are the best U.S. firms to target (with the largest offices) abroad in Europe?
2) How do COLAs work? I'm guessing they're awarded more freely when the firm has a specific overseas need rather than someone having an interest in working abroad..
3) How does the work experience compare? (Pros/Cons, Responsibilities, work/life balance, travel, etc.)
Thank you.

+1. is there any chance to go in house in Europe as a US attorney?

Yes, I believe that is a possibility and many global companies have done similar arrangements. I know I have read, not on this forum but in other corporate counsel magazines and publications, that American attorneys have gone in house in Asia and Africa or other middle eastern countries. I would check out Association Of Corporate Counsel's website and see what kind of stuff you can find there.

[Xnegd]

Can check with https://www.sra.org.uk/home/home.page for UK. They've been very helpful for me.

Might be worth looking one by one at magic circle firms and just see where they have offices - that my plan.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know much about the other European cities but in London there are a number of US lawyers. Most of the US firms in London have US lawyers there as well as UK lawyers. I'm British and a UK qualified lawyer, and I'm now working in the US (where I'm also qualified) so I've gone the other way, but in my biglaw firm, most of the US lawyers in the London office applied as normal in the US and then asked to go or were asked to go to the London office. A number of those US qualified lawyers then left and went in house in various European countries.
In response to the previous poster who said to look at Magic Circle firms - I don't agree with that. I used to work for one before going to my US biglaw firm and there were very few, if any, US lawyers in the European offices. I'd focus on US firms as many of them have US partners who want US associates to work with them, often on US-based deals with European components.

[Anonymous User]

I don't know much about the other European cities but in London there are a number of US lawyers. Most of the US firms in London have US lawyers there as well as UK lawyers. I'm British and a UK qualified lawyer, and I'm now working in the US (where I'm also qualified) so I've gone the other way, but in my biglaw firm, most of the US lawyers in the London office applied as normal in the US and then asked to go or were asked to go to the London office. A number of those US qualified lawyers then left and went in house in various European countries.
In response to the previous poster who said to look at Magic Circle firms - I don't agree with that. I used to work for one before going to my US biglaw firm and there were very few, if any, US lawyers in the European offices. I'd focus on US firms as many of them have US partners who want US associates to work with them, often on US-based deals with European components.

Thanks for this.
Any thoughts on if/how the work experience differs from US biglaw? Responsibilities, travel, work/life balance, etc..

[jbagelboy]

There are many NY-based American firms that keep American-trained JD's in their London office for capital markets work. Kirkland, Cravath, Davis Polk, and Simpson come to mind.

For Paris and Brussels, there are a handful of US attorneys but only for arbitration or competition law. These tend to be senior people, not first or second years, although Cleary Gottlieb, Davis Polk, and a handful of others allow 2-3 year rotations for capital markets/finance attorneys through the Paris office.

There are tradeoffs to starting in Europe or going there early in your career. To make partner at an elite new york firm, it's essential to spend your first few years and your 6-8 years in the New York office. Starting in Paris or Hong Kong and staying will usually hurt your chances at long-term growth in the firm. Second, you usually become less flexible in your practice, since you're basically stuck in a narrow field doing cap markets or arbitration and don't have the structural support of the firm's rotation systems or other training systems that broaden your practice experience. Additionally from a human resources perspective, you won't have nearly as many US partners to work for, which limits your exposure to different areas of the firm, different potential partnership boosters, and ways to escape a particularly brutal partner you might get stuck with overseas.

These collected downsides are why despite the opportunity many corporate associates have to start abroad or rotate there, live in Europe (which is fucking amazing), and cop $$$ from COLA, very few of them do.

[cookiejar1]

The quoted may be helpful information to you. It's from this thread (you may have missed it while searching since the thread's title is "London Magi Circle," lol): http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 6&start=50. Numbers are for London offices.

I'm at US firm in London right now, and I used to work at a Magic Circle. The following COLA information might be useful:

Freshfields: £25,000 (GBP)
Linklaters: $60,000
Cravath: $109,000
Latham: $100,000
Simpson: $66,000
Kirkland: $100,000

Out of the above, I would recommend Latham. They have one of the top reputations in the market, have a huge team (60+ US/JD lawyers, 200+ lawyers total in London) and bill less than Cravath and Kirkland. Also, if you work for a US firm over here, you will probably focus on high-yield debt work. High yield is especially grueling compared to other corporate work (most associates at US firms in London bill 2,200 hours to 3,000 hours (Cravath and Kirkland seriously have you billing near 3,000 hours) per year). If you go to a magic circle (except for Links), you will probably also get to do more equity and investment-grade debt deals. Your hours are also generally lower at magic circles (many colleagues did 1,600 - 1,800 hours per year for 6-7 years consistently) and you can make a long-term career at those firms. Firms like Cravath, Latham and Kirkland will grind you up and spit you out after 2-3 years.

ETA: Also important to consider the tax benefits for working abroad. You can take out more deductions for working abroad (I've even heard people say that you can deduct all living expenses (e.g., rent!). Haven't confirmed whether this is true.). Also, you may possibly take advantage of a tax shield. I'm not an accountant and I barely passed federal income tax so someone more knowledgable than I should comment.

[HonestAdvice]

Not directly relevant, but European lawyers at these firms are generally paid much less. I found that interesting when I learned it, and never made sense of it.

[Anonymous User]

Not directly relevant, but European lawyers at these firms are generally paid much less. I found that interesting when I learned it, and never made sense of it.

Probably because their educational track towards becoming a lawyer/solicitor/barrister is much shorter and less costly than the U.S. track.

[heythatslife]

ETA: Also important to consider the tax benefits for working abroad. You can take out more deductions for working abroad (I've even heard people say that you can deduct all living expenses (e.g., rent!). Haven't confirmed whether this is true.). Also, you may possibly take advantage of a tax shield. I'm not an accountant and I barely passed federal income tax so someone more knowledgable than I should comment.

Except that most European countries (the ones that matter for this purpose, anyway) have higher personal income tax rates than the US especially at the brackets big firm lawyers tend to find themselves in, so you likely won't be coming out ahead on account of tax.

[HonestAdvice]

Not directly relevant, but European lawyers at these firms are generally paid much less. I found that interesting when I learned it, and never made sense of it.

Probably because their educational track towards becoming a lawyer/solicitor/barrister is much shorter and less costly than the U.S. track.

Point 1 makes sense. I don't see how Point 2 factors in. If you're ordering pizza, you don't care about how much the pizza store pays per slice.

[heythatslife]

It makes sense because if the price people pay for pizza doesn't cover the costs that went into it, pretty soon you'll see that no one wants to open new pizza shops