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Hi all. Quick question regarding clearance. Have a shot at a DOJ internship/clinic that requires disclosure of drug use up to 7 years ago. I smoked weed a couple times in 2011 while in college. Haven't done it since, and don't intend to.

I intend to disclose, because I'd rather lose a gig now than screw myself long term, but does anyone have experience with how strict DOJ/OPM is regarding drug use in this context?

It's not what you know, it's what you can prove...

Why would you disclose this

OP here.
I was going to disclose because if I fail to and it comes up in the background investigation, I run the risk of being blacklisted for Fed employment post-grad. Also (secondary) I am just generally averse to lying on things.

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all. Quick question regarding clearance. Have a shot at a DOJ internship/clinic that requires disclosure of drug use up to 7 years ago. I smoked weed a couple times in 2011 while in college. Haven't done it since, and don't intend to.

I intend to disclose, because I'd rather lose a gig now than screw myself long term, but does anyone have experience with how strict DOJ/OPM is regarding drug use in this context?

Hey man, don't worry about it.

I did a DOJ internship my 1L summer with a full background check. Like you, I'd almost never smoked but had a very small number of marijuana instances in undergrad. It won't do you in. I hear it's actually more problematic if you have an enormous pirated music/movie library, versus any weed.

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Why would you disclose this

This always comes up. You disclose because it's asked, and because lawyers have an ethical obligation not to engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation, and because in the legal profession, lack of disclosure is almost always worse than the sin you're disclosing. Some people don't want to start their legal career lying to the feds. Other people aren't bothered by that. Some people don't want to take any risk of being caught not disclosing, others are comfortable with some risk. Everyone has to make their own choice about what they want to do, but it's not like there's no reason to disclose.

OP, I can't speak definitively for how DOJ/OPM will handle this, but don't think it's likely to be an issue, especially since you can draw a distinction between "in college" and "since college/in law school."

Definitely disclose.

Since it's been a while, I think it will likely be fine.

Thank you all.
I am going to disclose and hope for the best. More than anything I just don't want to have to go through add/drop if I get denied.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Why would you disclose this

This always comes up. You disclose because it's asked, and because lawyers have an ethical obligation not to engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation, and because in the legal profession, lack of disclosure is almost always worse than the sin you're disclosing. Some people don't want to start their legal career lying to the feds. Other people aren't bothered by that. Some people don't want to take any risk of being caught not disclosing, others are comfortable with some risk. Everyone has to make their own choice about what they want to do, but it's not like there's no reason to disclose.

OP, I can't speak definitively for how DOJ/OPM will handle this, but don't think it's likely to be an issue, especially since you can draw a distinction between "in college" and "since college/in law school."

Makes sense if they really don't care. How is it possible something like this would come up in the background check tho

Anonymous User wrote:Hi all. Quick question regarding clearance. Have a shot at a DOJ internship/clinic that requires disclosure of drug use up to 7 years ago. I smoked weed a couple times in 2011 while in college. Haven't done it since, and don't intend to.

I intend to disclose, because I'd rather lose a gig now than screw myself long term, but does anyone have experience with how strict DOJ/OPM is regarding drug use in this context?

Did you inhale?

Mack.Hambleton wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Why would you disclose this

This always comes up. You disclose because it's asked, and because lawyers have an ethical obligation not to engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation, and because in the legal profession, lack of disclosure is almost always worse than the sin you're disclosing. Some people don't want to start their legal career lying to the feds. Other people aren't bothered by that. Some people don't want to take any risk of being caught not disclosing, others are comfortable with some risk. Everyone has to make their own choice about what they want to do, but it's not like there's no reason to disclose.

OP, I can't speak definitively for how DOJ/OPM will handle this, but don't think it's likely to be an issue, especially since you can draw a distinction between "in college" and "since college/in law school."

Makes sense if they really don't care. How is it possible something like this would come up in the background check tho

Well, again, because they ask, and you answer truthfully, which you affirm you're doing when you submit the thing.

But also because they ask for people who knew you at all your residences and all throughout the period of the background check and you can't control what people say about you. (It's unlikely - but not impossible - they'd actually check references for a student position, but if the OP were to get a post-grad position - which they said they would like - they will check at that point, and the answers submitted at that point will be checked against the answers submitted on any previous applications. And they are perfectly likely to ask your references about your drug use.)

And I know this is going to sound incredibly self-righteous and easy to say blah blah blah, but I don't think "will they ever find out" is really the standard you should be using to decide how to answer on a background check.

Mack.Hambleton wrote:

A. Nony Mouse wrote:

Mack.Hambleton wrote:Why would you disclose this

This always comes up. You disclose because it's asked, and because lawyers have an ethical obligation not to engage in conduct involving dishonesty, fraud, deceit or misrepresentation, and because in the legal profession, lack of disclosure is almost always worse than the sin you're disclosing. Some people don't want to start their legal career lying to the feds. Other people aren't bothered by that. Some people don't want to take any risk of being caught not disclosing, others are comfortable with some risk. Everyone has to make their own choice about what they want to do, but it's not like there's no reason to disclose.

OP, I can't speak definitively for how DOJ/OPM will handle this, but don't think it's likely to be an issue, especially since you can draw a distinction between "in college" and "since college/in law school."

Makes sense if they really don't care. How is it possible something like this would come up in the background check tho

Like Mouse says, they do call people you knew throughout your life and check to see if you are a legit dude. I had a 1L internship with a federal agency, and they called people I knew. But there's also a concern that at a later date you get a lie detector test administered if you apply for a higher clearance than "Restricted" or whichever one it is you get for a DOJ internship. Obviously that's a pretty remote possibility, but you don't really want to be in a position of having lied on an application to the feds at that point, I would think.

Putting moral considerations aside, a doj internship isn't worth lying to the government for. Tell the truth with appropriate contrition or invent a reason to withdraw

OP, I applied for a USAO position for 1L summer and I had disclosed smoking weed ~10 times during college. It wasn't an issue. Smoking twice 5 years ago is so unlikely to be an issue that there's no reason not to disclose it.

Make sure you get your clearance papers in ASAP. From what I understand it takes longer to go through DOJ when you have to disclose something. I did 1L USAO last summer and I wasn't cleared until 2 and a half weeks into the internship. To be fair, I had to disclose smoking a bunch of weed and a public intoxication arrest, but you get the picture!

My experiences talking with my engineering friends regarding DoD clearance disclosures is that at least the DoD doesn't really care about weed use that was a while ago, even though within the 7 year window. What they do care about—and what is also a felony—is lying on the disclosures form.

eta: also, with regard to "how could this ever be revealed?", if OP were to ever go on to something that required top secret clearance, they vet the shit out of you. we had feds show up at my fraternity house unannounced asking questions about someone who graduated a few years back and was seeking TS clearance.

also, it's a lie that will follow you forever, as one of the questions on the disclosures form is "have you ever lied on one of these forms in the past?"

I have two close friends who both did DOJ internships. One had used pot recreationally a bit in college and was truthful about it--no issue. Another had used harder drugs and actually had been to treatment and had been sober for a few years--also no issue. The one who had used pot recreationally and told the truth about it is now actually working in DOJ honors FWIW.

Definitely disclose. It is not going to be an issue and any negligible risk associated with disclosing is vastly outweighed by the risks of failing to disclose.