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Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:38 pm
by Anonymous User
Hi everyone,
Im an international student, and I got a 1L job to extern for a federal district judge for the summer and accepted his offer.
The problem is that I also got a biglaw offer job, who would sponsor me to stay in the US once I graduate.
I haven't accepted since I got the judge's job, and was looking for advice on what to do.
If I don't get a firm that sponsors me, I would have to go back to my original country.
(chances are OCI strike out)
T20 school.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:40 pm
by Anonymous User
100% renege
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:40 pm
by GreenEggs
Sounds like a no brainer to take the job with the potential of sponsorship, but you have to look into how this might affect you with CSO. Some schools might ban you from CSO for accepting and then ditching a judge (especially a federal one).
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:40 pm
by Mullens
Anonymous User wrote:Hi everyone,
Im an international student, and I got a 1L job to extern for a federal district judge for the summer and accepted his offer.
The problem is that I also got a biglaw offer job, who would sponsor me to stay in the US once I graduate.
I haven't accepted since I got the judge's job, and was looking for advice on what to do.
If I don't get a firm that sponsors me, I would have to go back to my original country.
(chances are OCI strike out)
T20 school.
Accept the biglaw offer immediately.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:44 pm
by Anonymous User
Anonymous User wrote:100% renege
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:45 pm
by Anonymous User
Guys, how do I go about telling the judge? And also, CSO?
I'm scared they might try to hurt my career or something like that. At the same time, I'm afraid of the risk of not being able to get a firm who will sponsor me.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:49 pm
by Anonymous User
Fellow international student here, who is very much aware of how impossible it can be to get sponsorship - now have green card, so don't need to deal with all that. Accept the biglaw offer and don't look back. This is a golden opportunity.
Screw CSO. I would talk to the judge and explain your situation; I'm sure most would understand. You are not the average law student, and are not reneging for some bs reason. Unless the judge is really pissed (which would mean he or she is a terrible person), there is very little chance he will call the school to complain. I wouldn't tell CSO yourself unless you absolutely have to.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:52 pm
by Anonymous User
Im getting four credit hours to work for the judge, so I would have to tell CSO, as I signed the agreement to get the credit hours.
Thank you so much for all the feedback so far. This is super stressful!
Not sure if this matters, but the judge is in a different city from where I go to school. (same state)
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:57 pm
by Serett
Anonymous User wrote:Guys, how do I go about telling the judge? And also, CSO?
I'm scared they might try to hurt my career or something like that. At the same time, I'm afraid of the risk of not being able to get a firm who will sponsor me.
C'mon, dude(tte?).
"Dear Judge Bob Loblaw,
I am truly grateful for the opportunity blahblahblah...After much consideration, I must withdraw blahblahblah...I apologize for any inconvenience, but because it is my desire to remain here long-term after graduation blahblahblah...
Sincerely,
Neurotic Anon
PS: Spell 'I cup' aloud
PPS: lol"
+ maybe express your continued interest in clerking post-grad, if you have the numbers and intent for it and it doesn't complicate sponsorship.
"Dear CSO,
[youtube]JDUjeR01wnU[/youtube]
Sincerely,
Neurotic Anon"
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 4:58 pm
by Anonymous User
Wow, you are making it seem like its not a big deal. Is it really not?
I can't clerk post grad, only US citizens.
But I appreciate all the support TLS!
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:03 pm
by Serett
Anonymous User wrote:Wow, you are making it seem like its not a big deal. Is it really not?
I can't clerk post grad, only US citizens.
But I appreciate all the support TLS!
Whether it's a big deal or not, you don't have much rational choice but to renege, and then it's just a matter of being forthright and graceful in doing so. It's only summer work; we're not that valuable or irreplaceable anyway. As other anon mentioned, CSO or the judge would have to be a horse's ass to be too peeved about it in your situation.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:06 pm
by Anonymous User
That's true!
What does CSO banning me mean? That I wouldn't be eligible for OCI? Or is it more than just that?
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:09 pm
by zhenders
Serett wrote:Anonymous User wrote:Wow, you are making it seem like its not a big deal. Is it really not?
I can't clerk post grad, only US citizens.
But I appreciate all the support TLS!
Whether it's a big deal or not, you don't have much rational choice but to renege, and then
it's just a matter of being forthright and graceful in doing so. It's only summer work; we're not that valuable or irreplaceable anyway. As other anon mentioned, CSO or the judge would have to be a horse's ass to be too peeved about it in your situation.
Bolded is key. There is a way to go about this such that the judge is genuinely happy for you, and a way to go it about it that harms you. Be as graceful and gracious as you can; show respect for the judge's time, genuine regret for not being able to do the clerkship, and thoroughly explain why you're actually left with no choice, because of its' long-term impact. Don't write a perfunctory letter; put real thought into it, and if you are the kind of person who can handle something like this eloquently in conversation (and if your judge is the talky kind), do it that way.
Congratulations on this
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:11 pm
by zhenders
Oh! Also: "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I wouldn't talk to your career services people until this is done, unless fellow students of yours can vouch for their sympathy. If they tell you no directly but you do it anyways, THAT will hurt you.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:16 pm
by Anonymous User
zhenders wrote:Oh! Also: "it's easier to ask for forgiveness than permission." I wouldn't talk to your career services people until this is done, unless fellow students of yours can vouch for their sympathy. If they tell you no directly but you do it anyways, THAT will hurt you.
x2. I think it's a general law school rule that Career Services don't care about individual students one bit. Write/Call (I think calling would be better, but I'm old-fashioned) the judge, accept the firm offer, and then tell CSO.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:33 pm
by A. Nony Mouse
Yeah, I think this works much better if you can say to your CSO, I withdrew from the position with the judge BUT I explained everything and s/he understood and has no problem with it, so you can head off any anxiety on their part about the judge's reaction.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:35 pm
by RaceJudicata
Accept the firm offer, sign your docs, etc. Get that shit locked in.
I would call chambers and speak with the clerks (who likely have been your only interaction at this point). Fully explain the situation. They will understand and probably won't go to CSO. After you get chamber's blessing, go to CSO and say you have chamber's blessing. Should be good ....
Of course, this is all contingent on everyone in this process being a decent human being. My bet is CSO are the first to break this rule, not the judge.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:39 pm
by emkay625
I second the call the clerks notion. Call and ask to speak to the clerk. They are most likely nice people who will understand if you apologize and explain the situation. Then ask if you could perhaps schedule a time to speak with the judge to apologize as well.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 5:54 pm
by Anonymous User
Awesome! Sounds like everyone thinks this is the right choice.
Also, not sure if it matters at all, but I submitted my fingerprint and all paperwork with the court already, and everything is pretty much set to go. Its been a bit more than a month since I accepted the offer.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:00 pm
by RaceJudicata
Anonymous User wrote:Awesome! Sounds like everyone thinks this is the right choice.
Also, not sure if it matters at all, but I submitted my fingerprint and all paperwork with the court already, and everything is pretty much set to go. Its been a bit more than a month since I accepted the offer.
I dont think that matters/changes the answer. But you should do this ASAP - they may have a desire to add another extern for the summer and can't do so unless you relinquish your spot...and the longer you wait the (relatively) worse it looks.
ETA: if a clerk chimes in to confirm these hunches..may be valuable to OP
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 6:14 pm
by Anonymous User
I agree with the above - the critical step here is having the guts to promptly call the judge and/or chambers and explain not only that you are reneging, but why you really have no choice but to reneg given the chance for sponsorship.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Wed Apr 27, 2016 10:32 pm
by Anonymous User
I'm confused-- Why do you think you would strike out at OCI? If you were able to get a 1L SA I would guess that you wouldn't have a hard time during OCI? Big law firms usually sponsor those they give offers to. I'm an international student too.
I would think about whether I want to take the risk of burning bridges and the CSO banning me from OCI when I could probably get a 2L summer offer anyway.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:55 am
by Anonymous User
Yeah i'm with the anon above me, anon because I was in your position too but now have a green card so dont have to deal with that.
The problem here is that, you are a ONE(1)L. And you are not in their normal summer class? Unless you somehow sign a contract with them about 2l summer as well as post-graduate employment-- THIS SCENARIO IS UNLIKELY IN ANY GIVEN CIRCUMSTANCES.
first of 1l summer job is not called "extern", it's internship. I found your description confusing.
second of, pretty much all firms love your judicial internship/ clerkship with the federal court, explain to them that you got this swanky gig at the district court and ask to split the summer: if they truly see you as the incoming summer associate as well as the future associate, they will let you split. YOU DON'T WANT TO RENEGE ON A FEDERAL JUDGE. Because that shit aint coming back.
final takeaway: tell the person who hired you that you have this federal internship and ask to split the summer- you can always work for them full-time 2L summer.
edit: moreover, i do wanna throw in a line. If you think your T20 school is not gonna get you an 2L SA through OCI, despite your grades right now, you always have that firm to fall back on. But do the OCI and use your 1L experience to leverage into a better firm
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:58 am
by A. Nony Mouse
Summer jobs are externships if you do them for credit through your school, which it sounds like the OP is doing here.
Re: Backing out from a federal judge after acceptance
Posted: Thu Apr 28, 2016 10:58 am
by kellyfrost
DCfilterDC wrote:Sounds like a no brainer to take the job with the potential of sponsorship, but you have to look into how this might affect you with CSO. Some schools might ban you from CSO for accepting and then ditching a judge (especially a federal one).
What exactly does a CSO ban entail? Are you trespassed from the CSO office? Do they block you from sending emails? I understand if they won't assist you with your job or internship search, but I have never heard of a full on ban. I didn't go to a law school with an active or helpful CSO so I am unfamiliar with how these offices are supposed to work.