Summer Associate Class of 2016 Forum

[Anonymous User]

Anyone else at the awkward point where they have to submit a cab expense for the first time? I know it shouldn't be a big deal. But oh am I good at over analyzing ...

Do you have an assistant that handles that? Just send them an email with the receipt and thank them for helping you out with that. Otherwise I think you contact HR (whatever your firm's policy is). It's not a big deal, a lot of other summers do it, especially after social events when you're going home after hours and are not in the best shape.

[TheoO]

First day where I billed like 9 hours. Honestly, it was a lot of fluff. The average associate can probably do it in like 1 to 2 hours, probably less. But still felt exhausting: review docs, change parties, dates, and a few sentences or two, reread to account for consistency, and fix any errors. I took forever just making sure it was as carefully reviewed as possible. It came back littered with mark ups.

I can already see how people burn out.

[Londonbear]

Still haven't really billed any actual "work" time, but haven't gone home earlier than 8pm either.

[RaceJudicata]

When y'all say swag are you literally referring to firm branded merchandise? Why on earth would you want that crap?!

[Serett]

Anyone else out there really bad at ending conversations? I'm a sociable person and actually competent at holding a conversation but ending a conversation is such a challenge. I feel like there are people out there who are good at steering a conversation to a stopping point. I always feel like I'm ending it abruptly. Any tips? I was thinking of walking around with signs that say "1 minute," "30 seconds," and "10 seconds" so people are prepared when I end the conversation.

God, I was about to jump on an anon for this before I saw it was you.

[Anonymous User]

Hows it been for the folks in secondary markets? Is there much swag/events? Im 1 of 2 SAs in a secondary market and I start next week

Also in a secondary market with a small class; don't start for another week (June 6). AFAIK, there are no quarter system summers either, so it's strange to start that late. Otherwise, I'm excited to meet more people and settle in.

Also, this is PB&J.D. I'm on my phone and have fat fingers (hence anon).

[Anonymous User]

Secondary market here. Lot of swag, many events, and endless amounts of work. Just finished after remoting in for 1.5 hours. Secondary market doesn't always mean lesser experience haha.

[sublime]

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[PeanutsNJam]

Ok I did a 8-5:30 today and billed 6.2 hours. We get free lunch every day which lasts 1-1.5 hrs, and have 1 hr training sessions each day this week. Still, how are people billing 9-12 hrs a day? You're ether lying, padding your hours, or legit doing a 6am-9pm day. Are you billing the time when you go take a shit, grab a cup of coffee on the way back, then ask how an assistant's day went, checking your email, texting your friends about weekend plans, etc? I get full time associates billing 12 hours by literally staying till midnight, but who here is doing that?

[sublime]

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[lavarman84]

Yea, I don't really get you guys billing that much/talking about staying long hours. What possibly could they be having you do on like your first week as an SA that requires that?

I had to research and find the perfect cat video.

[Londonbear]

Well isn't there like "billable hours" and also "non-billable hours"? You still bill to account for the time at the firm so I think that's where you might get 12+ hours, unless you're at the exceptionally known NY working firms - then that might be all client related billable hours which would kinda suck.

[Avian]

Ok I did a 8-5:30 today and billed 6.2 hours. We get free lunch every day which lasts 1-1.5 hrs, and have 1 hr training sessions each day this week. Still, how are people billing 9-12 hrs a day? You're ether lying, padding your hours, or legit doing a 6am-9pm day. Are you billing the time when you go take a shit, grab a cup of coffee on the way back, then ask how an assistant's day went, checking your email, texting your friends about weekend plans, etc? I get full time associates billing 12 hours by literally staying till midnight, but who here is doing that?

I knew summers who stayed until 1 or 2 in the morning at a non-working summer firm. Totally unnecessary, but there you go. I don't know if they were just being obsessive about checking for errors, or if they were trying to turn things around way faster than was asked for.

[Serett]

Well isn't there like "billable hours" and also "non-billable hours"? You still bill to account for the time at the firm so I think that's where you might get 12+ hours, unless you're at the exceptionally known NY working firms - then that might be all client related billable hours which would kinda suck.

Barring a long social event post-work, summers (excluding full-on working summers, who have my sympathy, but those should be the minority and most likely knew what they were getting into) shouldn't be putting in 12+ hour days of any kind regularly, and almost certainly not this early.

Of course, judging by this topic so far, I wouldn't be surprised if we have a disproportionate number of people working 12+ hour days unnecessarily, so what Avian noted is probably happening.

[El Pollito]

You guys aren't "billing" hours.

[Anonymous User]

I think people bill lunches. It's mostly bullshit anyways and the partners probably reduce it drastically later on.

[Mr. Blackacre]

Ok I did a 8-5:30 today and billed 6.2 hours. We get free lunch every day which lasts 1-1.5 hrs, and have 1 hr training sessions each day this week. Still, how are people billing 9-12 hrs a day? You're ether lying, padding your hours, or legit doing a 6am-9pm day. Are you billing the time when you go take a shit, grab a cup of coffee on the way back, then ask how an assistant's day went, checking your email, texting your friends about weekend plans, etc? I get full time associates billing 12 hours by literally staying till midnight, but who here is doing that?

I'm impressed you even got that much out of your day. Granted, we still had quite a bit of orientation today, but at around the same hours I barely "billed" 4 hours. And the firm I'm at is not one of the party firms.

I'm assuming anyone who claims they're already billing 10+ hours day is either 1) at Cravath, 2) full of shit, or 3) heaaaaaavily padding / counting training and social events as billing.

[stannis]

Ok I did a 8-5:30 today and billed 6.2 hours. We get free lunch every day which lasts 1-1.5 hrs, and have 1 hr training sessions each day this week. Still, how are people billing 9-12 hrs a day? You're ether lying, padding your hours, or legit doing a 6am-9pm day. Are you billing the time when you go take a shit, grab a cup of coffee on the way back, then ask how an assistant's day went, checking your email, texting your friends about weekend plans, etc? I get full time associates billing 12 hours by literally staying till midnight, but who here is doing that?

I've been billing between 9 and 11, usually in the office 11-13. I'll also "bill" another half hour for time I spend socializing with anyone at the firm, or getting a cup of coffee with someone. My firm doesn't really do lunches, so lunch is just however long it takes to pick something up nearby. Then it's back to my office and I start billing again. Those 1.5-2 unbilled hours are the things you mentioned (texting friends, using the bathroom, refilling coffee mug).

@Pollito I know 75% (probably 100% for those in biglaw) doesn't end up on the client's bill so it isn't billing, strictly speaking. But it's a useful proxy for us to discuss how much we are working at each firm.

[sublime]

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[BigZuck]

People get told "Just do good work and don't be a weirdo and you're fine" about a billion times, if some people ITT don't understand that by now then they're simply never not going to be law students about everything.

[El Pollito]

People get told "Just do good work and don't be a weirdo and you're fine" about a billion times, if some people ITT don't understand that by now then they're simply never not going to be law students about everything.

I hope everyone gets an offer but there is a lot of weirdness going on ITT.

[Mr. Blackacre]

Ok I did a 8-5:30 today and billed 6.2 hours. We get free lunch every day which lasts 1-1.5 hrs, and have 1 hr training sessions each day this week. Still, how are people billing 9-12 hrs a day? You're ether lying, padding your hours, or legit doing a 6am-9pm day. Are you billing the time when you go take a shit, grab a cup of coffee on the way back, then ask how an assistant's day went, checking your email, texting your friends about weekend plans, etc? I get full time associates billing 12 hours by literally staying till midnight, but who here is doing that?

I've been billing between 9 and 11, usually in the office 11-13. I'll also "bill" another half hour for time I spend socializing with anyone at the firm, or getting a cup of coffee with someone. My firm doesn't really do lunches, so lunch is just however long it takes to pick something up nearby. Then it's back to my office and I start billing again. Those 1.5-2 unbilled hours are the things you mentioned (texting friends, using the bathroom, refilling coffee mug).

@Pollito I know 75% (probably 100% for those in biglaw) doesn't end up on the client's bill so it isn't billing, strictly speaking. But it's a useful proxy for us to discuss how much we are working at each firm.

Damn that is depressing. Definitely makes me appreciate how little I'm working right now. Market?

[stannis]

Damn. I probably worked a total of 10 hours before 9AM, after 6PM, or on the weekends over a 12 week summer.

Hope you guys are at least at Cravath.

Not in biglaw, not in NYC (or any primary market). I can see why a firm that hires 50+ summer associates and expects most of them to be gone in 7 years would just let summers have fun and weed out the insufferable ones. But at a firm with >50 lawyers where ~50% of new associates go on to make partner, I think it's fairly easy to see why they would want to make sure you are actually willing and able to work really hard and produce good work product before they take you on as an associate.

[sublime]

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[stannis]

Damn. I probably worked a total of 10 hours before 9AM, after 6PM, or on the weekends over a 12 week summer.

Hope you guys are at least at Cravath.

Not in biglaw, not in NYC (or any primary market). I can see why a firm that hires 50+ summer associates and expects most of them to be gone in 7 years would just let summers have fun and weed out the insufferable ones. But at a firm with >50 lawyers where ~50% of new associates go on to make partner, I think it's fairly easy to see why they would want to make sure you are actually willing and able to work really hard and produce good work product before they take you on as an associate.

That's fair, although I have to imagine that 12 hours per day is overkill. Are there other summers? What are they doing?

2 more on their way, but just me for now. All the associates have told me I have it easy so far and that they worked harder as summers. Every single person at the firm works very hard, so yeah, they want to make sure you can work just as hard. It's one thing to say "I'm a hardworker" in a 20 minute interview, it's another to actually show them you can do it. The upside is they don't end up having to push associates out for not working enough.