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I can't find a recent post that discusses this. What's better for students a pure lottery, partial lottery, or no lottery for OCI? Benefits and pitfalls of each?

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Dr. Nefario wrote:I can't find a recent post that discusses this. What's better for students a pure lottery, partial lottery, or no lottery for OCI? Benefits and pitfalls of each?

My school had partial lottery, I think that worked out best (I think it was 80/20 preselect/lottery). Firms see the majority of the candidates they are most likely to hire. Sure, there will be some lottery picks that aren't qualified, but the limited number of lottery spots will discourage people wasting their bids at places they really have no chance at. I knew more than a handful of people who got lottery for firms they weren't quite at GPA range for, but interviewed very well and got offers.

Plus having no lottery would just lead to the same small top portion of the class taking up all of the interview spots. Pure lottery seems strange to me and seems like it would only work at HYS not other schools.

sublime wrote:It depends on your credentials.

If you are top of your class, preselect is better.

If you are not, lottery is better.

For example, top of the class at my T20 which is entirely preselect can get like 40+ screeners. On the other hand, if you are below a certain point, you can get none.

Basically. From a "choosing a law school" standpoint, you would want pure lottery because you can probably assume you will be around median.

Anonymous User wrote:

sublime wrote:It depends on your credentials.

If you are top of your class, preselect is better.

If you are not, lottery is better.

For example, top of the class at my T20 which is entirely preselect can get like 40+ screeners. On the other hand, if you are below a certain point, you can get none.

Basically. From a "choosing a law school" standpoint, you would want pure lottery because you can probably assume you will be around median.

This. Pure lottery seems to work great for schools like Cornell: http://www.lstscorereports.com/schools/cornell/

Anyone that tells you preselect is better is at the tip-top of their class.

favabeansoup wrote: Pure lottery seems strange to me and seems like it would only work at HYS not other schools.

I think pure lottery is pretty standard throughout the T-14. I know UVA has some pre-select, anyone know the others that differ?

RaceJudicata wrote:Anyone that tells you preselect is better is at the tip-top of their class.

I think pre-select can help for secondaries if you have ties and it shows (or you can make it show) in the materials you submit. The above is definitely true for NYC/DC tho.

Tiago Splitter wrote:

favabeansoup wrote: Pure lottery seems strange to me and seems like it would only work at HYS not other schools.

I think pure lottery is pretty standard throughout the T-14. I know UVA has some pre-select, anyone know the others that differ?

GULC has like 20% pre-select.

So is it uncommon for T1 schools to change away from the lottery and steer towards purely pre-select/no ranking of bids?

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Dr. Nefario wrote:So is it uncommon for T1 schools to change away from the lottery and steer towards purely pre-select/no ranking of bids?

This is not a matter of school choice. Employers aren't going to come to lesser schools (in terms of rankings) to get stuck with students selected via lottery. They are only going to take the top students at T1 and lower schools. Therefore, they are going to want pre-select to weed out the bottom 80% of the class...or more.

Both have their pros and cons. With a pre-select system, you at least know that every firm you are meeting with is truly interested in you and wants to speak with you.

In the end, I prefer lottery, but you have to bid carefully. Some people get over-eager and bid way too many of the very top firms. I had multiple interviews where I could tell that the interviewer was just humoring me and not taking it seriously. That doesn't happen when you are preselected.

That being said, pure lottery has some great positives. First, you can tailor your schedule based on the firms you truly want and are most interested in. By bidding those firms high, you are very likely to get them. Of my top 20 bids, I got something like 15 or 16. And by bidding the most and least selective firms lower, I maximized the number of interviews (its the mid-range firms that get the most bids since the top students treat them like a safety while lower-end students treat them like a reach).

Second, and more importantly, the firms you don't get through the lottery never rejected you. So you have an easy excuse to reach out to them on the side (this also includes firms you never even bid on). Let them know you are interested, that you would love to still meet with them, etc. I got a few extra callbacks that way. Some were from dropping resumes in hospitality suites, while others were just through back-door networking with alums.

FYI, GULC is 70% lottery, 30% preselect. It used to be pure lottery but changed a couple years back. The current system works well to ensure the top of the class gets what they want while everyone else gets a reasonable shot (as long as you're median or close). For what it's worth, plenty of people within the top third get preselects too (myself included), so it's not just the cream creaming on the creme.

Glasseyes wrote:FYI, GULC is 70% lottery, 30% preselect. It used to be pure lottery but changed a couple years back. The current system works well to ensure the top of the class gets what they want while everyone else gets a reasonable shot (as long as you're median or close). For what it's worth, plenty of people within the top third get preselects too (myself included), so it's not just the cream creaming on the creme.

Top third at GULC. Most schools aren't GULC. Many firms attending pre-select schools have firm Top 10%/5% cut offs.

RaceJudicata wrote:

Glasseyes wrote:FYI, GULC is 70% lottery, 30% preselect. It used to be pure lottery but changed a couple years back. The current system works well to ensure the top of the class gets what they want while everyone else gets a reasonable shot (as long as you're median or close). For what it's worth, plenty of people within the top third get preselects too (myself included), so it's not just the cream creaming on the creme.

Top third at GULC. Most schools aren't GULC. Many firms attending pre-select schools have firm Top 10%/5% cut offs.

Oh for sure. Just clarifying the specifics (someone mentioned GULC above) and what it means to have a split lottery/preselect system. I realize it's not particularly relevant to anyone outside of GULC, but there's a misconception that the preselects only go to the top 5-10% at our school and that's not how it tends to play out.

Yea, it seems like employers are also smart about who they're pre-selecting at GULC by pre-selecting around their GPA range. Shadow pre-selects (firms bringing you in off-schedule if you didnt get a screener through bidding) seem pretty prevalent as well.

Glasseyes wrote:

RaceJudicata wrote:

Glasseyes wrote:FYI, GULC is 70% lottery, 30% preselect. It used to be pure lottery but changed a couple years back. The current system works well to ensure the top of the class gets what they want while everyone else gets a reasonable shot (as long as you're median or close). For what it's worth, plenty of people within the top third get preselects too (myself included), so it's not just the cream creaming on the creme.

Top third at GULC. Most schools aren't GULC. Many firms attending pre-select schools have firm Top 10%/5% cut offs.

Oh for sure. Just clarifying the specifics (someone mentioned GULC above) and what it means to have a split lottery/preselect system. I realize it's not particularly relevant to anyone outside of GULC, but there's a misconception that the preselects only go to the top 5-10% at our school and that's not how it tends to play out.

Oh gotcha gotcha. Yeah.. I admittedly don't know much about split systems. My experience was with a straight pre-select system.

Is there any general consensus on typical GPA or % cutoffs for pure pre-select OCI at schools around the top 20?

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