Top Law Schools

If biglaw work/life balance isn't an oxymoron....

what would you say?

I'm thinking SF>all others>NY

Austin big law associate here. Honestly not as chill as I would have thought but significantly better than NY where I lateraled from.

TX

SF is definitely NOT the most chill.

Anonymous User wrote:SF is definitely NOT the most chill.

So where do you think is?

yeah west coast biglaw is no chill

esp when everyone's day is ahead of yours

Chicago

Edit: or Toronto

I know salaries are lower, but I've heard good stuff about Denver.

Backpacker wrote:I know salaries are lower, but I've heard good stuff about Denver.

Salaries are only going up in secondary markets like Denver while stalling in NYC/LA/DC. It's what is making these places so attractive to people. You can make 125-130k+ in Denver and your money is going to go a hell of a lot farther than in NYC. I get why people go to NYC and there are a lot of reasons to be there, but the personal finance math is certainly not one of them anymore.

There's more to comp than starting salary, Denver or any other secondary isn't giving you ~10% annual raises and market bonuses. I get that COL and taxes cuts (heavily) into that, but there's more to the story than taking starting salary and throwing it into a calculator.

lol at the idea of "chill" big law.

ticklemesilly wrote:If biglaw work/life balance isn't an oxymoron....

what would you say?

I'm thinking SF>all others>NY

Probably more accurate to say -- all others > SF > NY

Assuming we are talking hours worked. Attitude / chillness of colleagues different calculus.

jimmythecatdied6 wrote:lol at the idea of "chill" big law.

Yeah I've worked with and against people in big firms in places like Minneapolis, Seattle, Denver, etc and never got the impression that they were any less "on call" or working less than we were in NYC. Maybe at the margins, but working for major corporate clients generally means you work when they need you, no matter where you are, I think.

Sigh. Can we stop pretending life/work balance exists in BigLaw? This can only serve to confuse prospective students into getting a lot of debt to chase a pretty awful dream.

OP, if you want BigLaw, do it. Just be prepared for it to not be great. Trust me, it'll make it easier than getting your soul crushed because it wasn't the paradise you thought it would be.

zot1 wrote:Sigh. Can we stop pretending life/work balance exists in BigLaw? This can only serve to confuse prospective students into getting a lot of debt to chase a pretty awful dream.

OP, if you want BigLaw, do it. Just be prepared for it to not be great. Trust me, it'll make it easier than getting your soul crushed because it wasn't the paradise you thought it would be.

But whoever considered big law to be paradise before starting is delusional. I don't think anyone with any sense believes that going in. It's just all about managing expectations. Its almost impossible to predict how your big law experience will be anyway. Even within the same firm, who you get assigned to will have the most influence on your work/life balance. If you have an above average EQ and a lot of luck, you can maneuver yourself to working with the best people at your firm. I don't know what to say if everyone at your firm is nasty.

glitched wrote:

zot1 wrote:Sigh. Can we stop pretending life/work balance exists in BigLaw? This can only serve to confuse prospective students into getting a lot of debt to chase a pretty awful dream.

OP, if you want BigLaw, do it. Just be prepared for it to not be great. Trust me, it'll make it easier than getting your soul crushed because it wasn't the paradise you thought it would be.

But whoever considered big law to be paradise before starting is delusional. I don't think anyone with any sense believes that going in. It's just all about managing expectations. Its almost impossible to predict how your big law experience will be anyway. Even within the same firm, who you get assigned to will have the most influence on your work/life balance. If you have an above average EQ and a lot of luck, you can maneuver yourself to working with the best people at your firm. I don't know what to say if everyone at your firm is nasty.

I like everyone I work with but the work is the work, and it involves giving up a lot of nights and weekends, often on short notice.

on a whole i like it, but it does suck in a lot of ways

glitched wrote:

zot1 wrote:Sigh. Can we stop pretending life/work balance exists in BigLaw? This can only serve to confuse prospective students into getting a lot of debt to chase a pretty awful dream.

OP, if you want BigLaw, do it. Just be prepared for it to not be great. Trust me, it'll make it easier than getting your soul crushed because it wasn't the paradise you thought it would be.

But whoever considered big law to be paradise before starting is delusional. I don't think anyone with any sense believes that going in. It's just all about managing expectations. Its almost impossible to predict how your big law experience will be anyway. Even within the same firm, who you get assigned to will have the most influence on your work/life balance. If you have an above average EQ and a lot of luck, you can maneuver yourself to working with the best people at your firm. I don't know what to say if everyone at your firm is nasty.

i think people know it's going to be bad but you can't really understand in what way from the outside

El Pollito wrote:

glitched wrote:

zot1 wrote:Sigh. Can we stop pretending life/work balance exists in BigLaw? This can only serve to confuse prospective students into getting a lot of debt to chase a pretty awful dream.

OP, if you want BigLaw, do it. Just be prepared for it to not be great. Trust me, it'll make it easier than getting your soul crushed because it wasn't the paradise you thought it would be.

But whoever considered big law to be paradise before starting is delusional. I don't think anyone with any sense believes that going in. It's just all about managing expectations. Its almost impossible to predict how your big law experience will be anyway. Even within the same firm, who you get assigned to will have the most influence on your work/life balance. If you have an above average EQ and a lot of luck, you can maneuver yourself to working with the best people at your firm. I don't know what to say if everyone at your firm is nasty.

i think people know it's going to be bad but you can't really understand in what way from the outside

I think that's partially because of denial though.

I know tons of people in BigLaw and have TLS to provide all the info without actually having to set foot in a BigLaw firm.

I actually went through the OCI process and it turned me off from it right away. To give two quick examples, I had a screener with two associates, one junior and one senior. They were looking at my resume and they saw I had work in house at a company where another associate had recently gone to. Both associates commented to one another how lucky this associate was and how they wish they could go with him.

At a different firm, this time a CB, every attorney I met but one seemed depressed and one of them seemed suicidal. I spent half a day there and it was long enough to find out there was something wrong with that picture--no matter the money.

i know the media laughs at it, but Detroit isn't bad. I'm going in at the high end of the salary range so living will be pretty comfortable. Salaries for the semi-national firms is around $105k, but at the high end the national firms are at $145k. Housing isn't bad either, if your interested in living in the downtown or mid-town region (which will have rail service to the business district in 2017) rents for 1 bedrooms range in the $900-2k range. The kicker is car insurance, which is multiples of the national average, but it seems like the city is working to drop them. If you can look past the grittiness, it's not bad place to be.

People at my firm would leave most nights around 4:30-530pm. Many don't come in on Friday and face time was minimal. even first year associates were working from home w/in a few weeks of starting. Work seems pretty solid, many clients come to these markets b/c the fees are lower but the work-product is the same as you would find in NYC/Chicago/DC/etc.

dixiecupdrinking wrote:

glitched wrote:

zot1 wrote:Sigh. Can we stop pretending life/work balance exists in BigLaw? This can only serve to confuse prospective students into getting a lot of debt to chase a pretty awful dream.

OP, if you want BigLaw, do it. Just be prepared for it to not be great. Trust me, it'll make it easier than getting your soul crushed because it wasn't the paradise you thought it would be.

But whoever considered big law to be paradise before starting is delusional. I don't think anyone with any sense believes that going in. It's just all about managing expectations. Its almost impossible to predict how your big law experience will be anyway. Even within the same firm, who you get assigned to will have the most influence on your work/life balance. If you have an above average EQ and a lot of luck, you can maneuver yourself to working with the best people at your firm. I don't know what to say if everyone at your firm is nasty.

I like everyone I work with but the work is the work, and it involves giving up a lot of nights and weekends, often on short notice.

Definitely agree. But I'm not just talking about liking your coworkers. I'm talking about the partner that intentionally gives you some shit assignment at 8 pm on a Friday due Monday morning for seemingly no reason vs. the partner that will make sure to give you good assignments for your development and protects your hours to make sure you're not burned out. Fire drills, weekend work, and crazy weeks/months before a trial are a given and should be expected going in.

I've heard regulatory in DC isn't that bad.

Everybody either works hard or gets pushed out--doesn't matter where you live. You are always on call, so good luck planning outings, etc.

Biglaw_Associate_V20 wrote:Everybody either works hard or gets pushed out--doesn't matter where you live. You are always on call, so good luck planning outings, etc.

i am presently being badgered by someone who is ostensibly on vacation

I'm only a 1L, but seattle seems pretty chill? Secondary market, but some big firms here