Kirkland Bonuses? Forum

[Anonymous User]

Yeah, I don’t know what sick practice group this poster was in, but among my class year friends, 1900-2300 is the normal spread.

Anyway - 2nd year, ~2170hrs, ~$33k

This is pretty much my experience too. Most folks are billing ~180/month, but obviously varies a ton depending on practice group. Restructuring folks bill crazy hours from what I hear but litigation tends to be a lot more chill.

My lit-heavy office (can probably guess which one by this description alone) was incredibly slow for the end of 2018 and first quarter to 4 months of 2019. Associates were really low on hours. Then partners overcorrected and we were absolutely swamped for the last 5 months or so. Probably closer to a 200 average over those months for lit associates in my office, with some obviously well above. So, not so chill at least in that instance.

[QContinuum]

Yeah and the perception in other groups in the firm is that the entire restructuring and M&A groups pad their hours like crazy. Like I'm sorry but if you're billing 12.5 hours in a day but you were only there for 13 hours, you need to re-evaluate when you are turning your timers on and off.

General, non-Kirkland-specific observation. Depending on the type of work, it is absolutely possible to bill 12.5 out of 13 hours without padding. You achieve this by 1) having a huge pile of rote work to churn through, diligence being the most obvious candidate, and 2) being too busy to take any real breaks in between.

This kind of efficiency is harder in specialist groups, which tend to get a lesser volume of rote work.

[Pulsar]

That's just not true. If you are there 13 hours, you will spend more than 30 minutes on (a) multiple bathroom breaks; (b) getting water; (c) coffee; (d) food; (e) non-billable bullshit (e.g., expense reports, firmwide whatever); (f) minimal personal time. People who say they bill 12.5 out of 13 are either padding their hours or are pretty inhuman.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel, below 1900 hours, 3 rating, got a just-barely-above market bonus. Pretty happy with that.

Hours have been higher lately.

[MillllerTime]

That's just not true. If you are there 13 hours, you will spend more than 30 minutes on (a) multiple bathroom breaks; (b) getting water; (c) coffee; (d) food; (e) non-billable bullshit (e.g., expense reports, firmwide whatever); (f) minimal personal time. People who say they bill 12.5 out of 13 are either padding their hours or are pretty inhuman.

It's pretty rare I would bill 12.5 / 13. Frankly, I'm usually pretty inefficient unless there is a gun to my head (~10 hours in office for 7.5 billable). But in M&A there is a gun to your head every month or two: 2-3 deals moving quickly at the same time results in some pretty ridiculous hours. I'll take my bathroom and water breaks while dialed-in to calls I need to be on but am not critical to. Only food is a granola bar or two + free stuff the firm puts out. And who the hell would be doing expense reports while busy (also your secretary should handle all of that)?

[LaLiLuLeLo]

That's just not true. If you are there 13 hours, you will spend more than 30 minutes on (a) multiple bathroom breaks; (b) getting water; (c) coffee; (d) food; (e) non-billable bullshit (e.g., expense reports, firmwide whatever); (f) minimal personal time. People who say they bill 12.5 out of 13 are either padding their hours or are pretty inhuman.

It's pretty rare I would bill 12.5 / 13. Frankly, I'm usually pretty inefficient unless there is a gun to my head (~10 hours in office for 7.5 billable). But in M&A there is a gun to your head every month or two: 2-3 deals moving quickly at the same time results in some pretty ridiculous hours. I'll take my bathroom and water breaks while dialed-in to calls I need to be on but am not critical to. Only food is a granola bar or two + free stuff the firm puts out. And who the hell would be doing expense reports while busy (also your secretary should handle all of that)?

Yep, when shit is hitting the fan it really is nonstop. I’ve regularly skipped meals and am too busy to even be hungry. The only “break” I get is driving into work or showering and there’s a good chance I’m on calls.

[Anonymous User]

Midlevel, below 1900 hours, 3 rating, got a just-barely-above market bonus. Pretty happy with that.

Hours have been higher lately.

Sub-1900 and market bonus is an good outcome.

[The Lsat Airbender]

It's not padding if you spend 4 hours turning a draft and walk to the pantry and back for coffee sometime in that 4-hour span. Like, that probably doesn't even add a 6-minute increment.

ETA: if you take a 15-minute dump while watching Youtube videos, or shoot the shit by the water cooler with a colleague, obviously that's different, but in the "gun-to-your-head" scenario described above that basically never happens.

[Anonymous User]

I know first years do not get a bonus for their stub year, but do the hours they bill during their stub year count towards calculating the first year bonus at least?

[The Lsat Airbender]

I know first years do not get a bonus for their stub year, but do the hours they bill during their stub year count towards calculating the first year bonus at least?

Bonus targets are kinda fuzzy for first-years anyway. If you somehow crushed it during your stub year then you might be able to get away with a bit less during your actual first year. But generally no, the stub year doesn't matter at all. It's an extended training/onboarding exercise.

edit: forgot this is a K&E-specific thread. Kirkland might be different, although I doubt it.

[Anonymous User]

I know first years do not get a bonus for their stub year, but do the hours they bill during their stub year count towards calculating the first year bonus at least?

Bonus targets are kinda fuzzy for first-years anyway. If you somehow crushed it during your stub year then you might be able to get away with a bit less during your actual first year. But generally no, the stub year doesn't matter at all. It's an extended training/onboarding exercise.

edit: forgot this is a K&E-specific thread. Kirkland might be different, although I doubt it.

Anon KE associate. KE is different (and think a lot of firms work like this). The bonus year is measured September through August. So all time counts.

[malibustacy]

I know first years do not get a bonus for their stub year, but do the hours they bill during their stub year count towards calculating the first year bonus at least?

Bonuses are calculated September 1 to August 31, so yes.

[Anonymous User]

Bringing it back for this bonus season. Anyone know the usual multiplier tacked on for associates who receive a 2 in their review? Would this be seniority dependent or would a 5th year associate and an 8th year NSP both get a similar multiplier on their market bonus for getting a 2?

[Anonymous User]

Bringing it back for this bonus season. Anyone know the usual multiplier tacked on for associates who receive a 2 in their review? Would this be seniority dependent or would a 5th year associate and an 8th year NSP both get a similar multiplier on their market bonus for getting a 2?

It varies by class year. A very senior share partner put the bonus matrix from a few years ago into a public folder on DMS but it’s clearly a mistake that it’s publicly available and I’m sure they’d fire you if you got caught looking so consider how badly you want to know.

[Anonymous User]

Bringing it back for this bonus season. Anyone know the usual multiplier tacked on for associates who receive a 2 in their review? Would this be seniority dependent or would a 5th year associate and an 8th year NSP both get a similar multiplier on their market bonus for getting a 2?

It varies by class year. A very senior share partner put the bonus matrix from a few years ago into a public folder on DMS but it’s clearly a mistake that it’s publicly available and I’m sure they’d fire you if you got caught looking so consider how badly you want to know.

Don’t think I’m gonna do that… Mostly curious about what kind of multiplier a midlevel associate might get with a 2 rating.

[fly_lawy3r]

For the uninitiated... what do the various ratings mean at Kirkland? (E.g., what is a 2 vs. a 3?)

[Anonymous User]

For the uninitiated... what do the various ratings mean at Kirkland? (E.g., what is a 2 vs. a 3?)

You get a grade from 1-5 in your annual review in a October. 3 is satisfactory/with class. I don’t think junior associates can do better than this. 2 means you are doing well and I think 4th year is the earliest you can “break out” and get a 2. And 1 means rock star and (I think) mostly reserved for NSPs who are on the real path to shares.

4 means you aren’t meeting expectations and I understand is used mostly to signal you’re getting pushed out; often a 4 is paired with a mid-year review (another review in April, rather than waiting to October) and the general consensus is that if you get a 4 with a midyear review scheduled, you should endeavor to leave the firm before April rolls around. And I haven’t heard of anyone getting a 5, though I imagine it’s happened and it probably means you need to leave now.

Year end bonuses at Kirkland are a function of hours and merit; the merit component is your grade from 1-5. Think of a graph with hours as the X axis and merit as the Y; each point on the graph is essentially a different multiplier above the market bonus. But these multipliers can vary by seniority, so the graph for say 5th years isn’t the same as for 2nd years or for 9th year NSPs.

[Anonymous User]

For the uninitiated... what do the various ratings mean at Kirkland? (E.g., what is a 2 vs. a 3?)

You get a grade from 1-5 in your annual review in a October. 3 is satisfactory/with class. I don’t think junior associates can do better than this. 2 means you are doing well and I think 4th year is the earliest you can “break out” and get a 2. And 1 means rock star and (I think) mostly reserved for NSPs who are on the real path to shares.

4 means you aren’t meeting expectations and I understand is used mostly to signal you’re getting pushed out; often a 4 is paired with a mid-year review (another review in April, rather than waiting to October) and the general consensus is that if you get a 4 with a midyear review scheduled, you should endeavor to leave the firm before April rolls around. And I haven’t heard of anyone getting a 5, though I imagine it’s happened and it probably means you need to leave now.

Year end bonuses at Kirkland are a function of hours and merit; the merit component is your grade from 1-5. Think of a graph with hours as the X axis and merit as the Y; each point on the graph is essentially a different multiplier above the market bonus. But these multipliers can vary by seniority, so the graph for say 5th years isn’t the same as for 2nd years or for 9th year NSPs.

The ratings scale resets for NSPs. Your first year as an NSP, you're capped at a 3, whether you got a 1 in your last year as an associate or a 3. A 2 means you're on track for shares but far from a lock (and the longer you have a 2, the lower the odds). A 1 used to mean, so I've been told, that you're going to get shares next year. Whether it still does I can't say, and that probably varies by group and office (and the state of the legal market, for that matter), and maybe it was never literally true.

[Anonymous User]

Any word on extra bonuses on top of EOY bonus?

[Anonymous User]

Do people have any sense how much extra $$$$ you get for getting a 1 or a 2? Also how frequently 4th years get 2s?

I haven't heard any buzz about extra money.

[Anonymous User]

.

[Anonymous User]

For the uninitiated... what do the various ratings mean at Kirkland? (E.g., what is a 2 vs. a 3?)

You get a grade from 1-5 in your annual review in a October. 3 is satisfactory/with class. I don’t think junior associates can do better than this. 2 means you are doing well and I think 4th year is the earliest you can “break out” and get a 2. And 1 means rock star and (I think) mostly reserved for NSPs who are on the real path to shares.

4 means you aren’t meeting expectations and I understand is used mostly to signal you’re getting pushed out; often a 4 is paired with a mid-year review (another review in April, rather than waiting to October) and the general consensus is that if you get a 4 with a midyear review scheduled, you should endeavor to leave the firm before April rolls around. And I haven’t heard of anyone getting a 5, though I imagine it’s happened and it probably means you need to leave now.

Year end bonuses at Kirkland are a function of hours and merit; the merit component is your grade from 1-5. Think of a graph with hours as the X axis and merit as the Y; each point on the graph is essentially a different multiplier above the market bonus. But these multipliers can vary by seniority, so the graph for say 5th years isn’t the same as for 2nd years or for 9th year NSPs.

The ratings scale resets for NSPs. Your first year as an NSP, you're capped at a 3, whether you got a 1 in your last year as an associate or a 3. A 2 means you're on track for shares but far from a lock (and the longer you have a 2, the lower the odds). A 1 used to mean, so I've been told, that you're going to get shares next year. Whether it still does I can't say, and that probably varies by group and office (and the state of the legal market, for that matter), and maybe it was never literally true.

Idiotic question - pre-NSP, I went 2-2-2. I understand that you're supposed to go 3-2-1 or 2-2-1. I'm assuming my 2-2-2 isn't going to kill me but does anyone have insight here? Received my 3 as an NSP last year and assume I'm doing well this year but who knows.

[Anonymous User]

For the uninitiated... what do the various ratings mean at Kirkland? (E.g., what is a 2 vs. a 3?)

You get a grade from 1-5 in your annual review in a October. 3 is satisfactory/with class. I don’t think junior associates can do better than this. 2 means you are doing well and I think 4th year is the earliest you can “break out” and get a 2. And 1 means rock star and (I think) mostly reserved for NSPs who are on the real path to shares.

4 means you aren’t meeting expectations and I understand is used mostly to signal you’re getting pushed out; often a 4 is paired with a mid-year review (another review in April, rather than waiting to October) and the general consensus is that if you get a 4 with a midyear review scheduled, you should endeavor to leave the firm before April rolls around. And I haven’t heard of anyone getting a 5, though I imagine it’s happened and it probably means you need to leave now.

Year end bonuses at Kirkland are a function of hours and merit; the merit component is your grade from 1-5. Think of a graph with hours as the X axis and merit as the Y; each point on the graph is essentially a different multiplier above the market bonus. But these multipliers can vary by seniority, so the graph for say 5th years isn’t the same as for 2nd years or for 9th year NSPs.

The ratings scale resets for NSPs. Your first year as an NSP, you're capped at a 3, whether you got a 1 in your last year as an associate or a 3. A 2 means you're on track for shares but far from a lock (and the longer you have a 2, the lower the odds). A 1 used to mean, so I've been told, that you're going to get shares next year. Whether it still does I can't say, and that probably varies by group and office (and the state of the legal market, for that matter), and maybe it was never literally true.

Idiotic question - pre-NSP, I went 2-2-2. I understand that you're supposed to go 3-2-1 or 2-2-1. I'm assuming my 2-2-2 isn't going to kill me but does anyone have insight here? Received my 3 as an NSP last year and assume I'm doing well this year but who knows.

I assume 2-2-2 is still pretty good. Surely less than half of the 6th year class receives a 1 or has ever received a 1.

[Anonymous User]

Also interested in hearing more on “how frequently 4th years get 2” and whether it’s unusual for people who got to become NSPs to get a 3 for their 4th year review. Does it vary by practice group?

[Anonymous User]

[Deleted]