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i have a couple market paying 1L SA offers but also a PI offer from the PI organization I want to work with after i graduate and do biglaw for a couple years. this PI firm generally only hires from their former intern pool, but some exceptions apply to the baller applicants. i want the SA money but feel like the mature thing is to take the PI offer. right? i'm on a full ride + stipend so money isn't a critical thing, but i would like to build a strong nest egg in my late 20s so i can retire early, or at least do unicorn legal shit that doesn't pay anything. (that's why i wanna do biglaw for a few years).

background: top 10% at T10-14; deep connections to the PI industry I want; 2 profs from last semester said they would "go to bat" re: jobs/clerkships; want a clerkship before biglaw; not smart but generally can fake it w/ hard work; significant work experience; going for politics down the road. not URM.

eta: the PI job is ACLU-esque; the 1L SA offers are V10, V20, and amlaw250. still waiting on about 50 firms for screeners and have been rejected by around that many.

Anonymous User wrote:i have a couple market paying 1L SA offers but also a PI offer from the PI organization I want to work with after i graduate and do biglaw for a couple years. this PI firm generally only hires from their former intern pool, but some exceptions apply to the baller applicants. i want the SA money but feel like the mature thing is to take the PI offer. right? i'm on a full ride + stipend so money isn't a critical thing, but i would like to build a strong nest egg in my late 20s so i can retire early, or at least do unicorn legal shit that doesn't pay anything. (that's why i wanna do biglaw for a few years).

background: top 10% at T10-14; deep connections to the PI industry I want; 2 profs from last semester said they would "go to bat" re: jobs/clerkships; want a clerkship before biglaw; not smart but generally can fake it w/ hard work; significant work experience; going for politics down the road. not URM.

eta: the PI job is ACLU-esque; the 1L SA offers are V10, V20, and amlaw250.

Very interesting. Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a friend who revealed that he had a 4.0 after 1L fall, but couldn't get any SA offers because "he was a white male." How exactly did you get 1L SA offers as a non-URM? Congratulations btw.

Phil Brooks wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:i have a couple market paying 1L SA offers but also a PI offer from the PI organization I want to work with after i graduate and do biglaw for a couple years. this PI firm generally only hires from their former intern pool, but some exceptions apply to the baller applicants. i want the SA money but feel like the mature thing is to take the PI offer. right? i'm on a full ride + stipend so money isn't a critical thing, but i would like to build a strong nest egg in my late 20s so i can retire early, or at least do unicorn legal shit that doesn't pay anything. (that's why i wanna do biglaw for a few years).

background: top 10% at T10-14; deep connections to the PI industry I want; 2 profs from last semester said they would "go to bat" re: jobs/clerkships; want a clerkship before biglaw; not smart but generally can fake it w/ hard work; significant work experience; going for politics down the road. not URM.

eta: the PI job is ACLU-esque; the 1L SA offers are V10, V20, and amlaw250.

Very interesting. Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a friend who revealed that he had a 4.0 after 1L fall, but couldn't get any SA offers because "he was a white male." How exactly did you get 1L SA offers as a non-URM? Congratulations btw.

OP. Short story is math. I applied to about 120 amlaw250 firms, including about every V100, with tailored cover letters. So I only needed less than a 1% chance to win. Longer story is I have ties to several major markets and interesting work experience.

As a "baller applicant," to what extent did you emphasize "ball is life" in your SA interviews? Somewhat similarly, did you, at any time, "expose him" (him being your interviewer)?

Bless up, OP!

I'd take the V10 SA considering your biglaw goals in the short-term, unless the PI gig is known to be very competitive and hard to swing.

You win, OP.

Take the biglaw, push pro bono projects with the org of your dreams. It can work.

dresden doll wrote:Take the biglaw, push pro bono projects with the org of your dreams. It can work.

OP here. i appreciate that. thank you.

the problem is that the group i want to work with does not take pro bono. it is super niche. the counter is that i feel like i have such relevant ties to them, plus hopefully good grades or whatever, that i dont see them saying 3 years post-biglaw, 'fuck you, you didn't work for us for 8 weeks your 1L so we won't hire you.' thus perhaps not much risk doing biglaw this summer. would be awesome to have $$$$$$$$$ this summer.

Anonymous User wrote:

dresden doll wrote:Take the biglaw, push pro bono projects with the org of your dreams. It can work.

OP here. i appreciate that. thank you.

the problem is that the group i want to work with does not take pro bono. it is super niche. the counter is that i feel like i have such relevant ties to them, plus hopefully good grades or whatever, that i dont see them saying 3 years post-biglaw, 'fuck you, you didn't work for us for 8 weeks your 1L so we won't hire you.' thus perhaps not much risk doing biglaw this summer. would be awesome to have $$$$$$$$$ this summer.

When does your SA end? They might be willing to take you for the four or so weeks following it. My former PI org let someone do that after she was done with her SA.

What kind of experience do people who work at this niche PI have? Do they get there via PI or via biglaw?

(I also suspect that if working for them while law school matters, not working for them 2L summer will be a bigger deal than not working for them 1L. But I'm speculating wildly of course.)

I was the one asking about the viability of going to the PI org for a few weeks post-SA. Accidentally posted anonymously. Sorry, mods.

A. Nony Mouse wrote:What kind of experience do people who work at this niche PI have? Do they get there via PI or via biglaw?

(I also suspect that if working for them while law school matters, not working for them 2L summer will be a bigger deal than not working for them 1L. But I'm speculating wildly of course.)

it is a mix one the one hand of biglaw + clerkships laterals and on the other those coming straight into the organization - so 50/50. thus not punitive if i do this as a 1L or 2L, so doing it now is more rational, b/c I will then be able to do a 2L SA and (hopefully) get a biglaw offer then. the cart's before the horse but you get the idea.

I think first and foremost you need to make a careful decision about whether you care more about large firms and representing corporations and sophisticated financial institutions, or putting your legal training to work servicing public interest (in whatever form your organization takes). Personally I'd take one of the SAs, whichever you like, since 1L PI gigs aren't taken very seriously, but by entering the private sector so early, you do risk foreclosing public interest employers down the road. You're trying to have your cake and eat it too, which *might* work if you remain as highly qualified as you are, but usually doesn't. Search yourself and consider what you really care about.

In other news, congratulations--you're totally winning the law school game so far.

Anonymous User wrote:i have a couple market paying 1L SA offers but also a PI offer from the PI organization I want to work with after i graduate and do biglaw for a couple years. this PI firm generally only hires from their former intern pool, but some exceptions apply to the baller applicants. i want the SA money but feel like the mature thing is to take the PI offer. right? i'm on a full ride + stipend so money isn't a critical thing, but i would like to build a strong nest egg in my late 20s so i can retire early, or at least do unicorn legal shit that doesn't pay anything. (that's why i wanna do biglaw for a few years).

background: top 10% at T10-14; deep connections to the PI industry I want; 2 profs from last semester said they would "go to bat" re: jobs/clerkships; want a clerkship before biglaw; not smart but generally can fake it w/ hard work; significant work experience; going for politics down the road. not URM.

eta: the PI job is ACLU-esque; the 1L SA offers are V10, V20, and amlaw250. still waiting on about 50 firms for screeners and have been rejected by around that many.

You should take the PI offer.

1) If they mostly hire from their former intern pool, then making sure you're a part of that pool automatically makes you a more hireable candidate. Dres is right insofar as pro bono can help a stellar candidate make it, but having them know you personally will make your life wayyyy easier than being an amazing candidate, but still a stranger. In PI, more than anything else, connections matter and personal relationships are key.

2) Money is not a factor in this decision, so the PI gig doesn't have the usual drawback as it would for someone who does have to consider.

3) Working at the organization will give you the inside scoop. You'll see how the organization works from the inside, and you'll get to learn the organization's personality. Maybe you'll find you not only like the idea of the organization, as you do now, but you also like the organization as itself after experiencing it, which is great. Or maybe you'll find that it's not what you thought it was, and then you'll know that maybe you don't want to do that kind of work afterall. Both of these possible experiences are very important for you.

Lastly, I think you already know the right decisions and are just looking for people to tell you the 1L SA is fine. I get that you want money, but I think you're placing a little too much importance on it this early in your legal career. I listed 3 upsides to taking the PI offer, and the only downside is less money. Money can't buy you a better chance at PI post-big law, though, but this PI experience can.

Phil Brooks wrote:[Very interesting. Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a friend who revealed that he had a 4.0 after 1L fall, but couldn't get any SA offers because "he was a white male." How exactly did you get 1L SA offers as a non-URM? Congratulations btw.

Tell your friend it's probably because he's an insufferable douche, and not because he's a white dude.

Obviously 1L SA's are pretty damn hard to get, so no matter what you do I'm sure you'll be fine come OCI (as long as you don't tank second semester). Another reason you might want to do the PI gig now, when it doesn't really matter: see if it lives up to the hype. A lot of people think they want to save the whales but end up running to biglaw anyway when they realize their dream job pays peanuts and isn't actually validating every second of the day. Maybe you realize you don't like the smell of your own farts as much as all your PI coworkers enjoy the smell of theirs. There are a million reasons you might be disappointed by the dream job; I think it makes sense to take it for a spin now before planning some long-term exit strategy.

I say: you're gonna do fine next summer, and you don't seem supremely worried about the cash the way normal poor law students would be, which is telling, so go live the dream now and see if that dream survives the summer.

Thanks for the feedback all.

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:[Very interesting. Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a friend who revealed that he had a 4.0 after 1L fall, but couldn't get any SA offers because "he was a white male." How exactly did you get 1L SA offers as a non-URM? Congratulations btw.

Tell your friend it's probably because he's an insufferable douche, and not because he's a white dude.

This. I'd bet he didn't apply to a 10th the number of schools you (or many other successful candidates) did.

zhenders wrote:

Nebby wrote:

Phil Brooks wrote:[Very interesting. Just a couple of days ago I was talking to a friend who revealed that he had a 4.0 after 1L fall, but couldn't get any SA offers because "he was a white male." How exactly did you get 1L SA offers as a non-URM? Congratulations btw.

Tell your friend it's probably because he's an insufferable douche, and not because he's a white dude.

This. I'd bet he didn't apply to a 10th the number of schools you (or many other successful candidates) did.

Schools? He was talking about 1L SAs, but thanks for the backup nonetheless.

Nebby wrote: Schools? He was talking about 1L SAs, but thanks for the backup nonetheless.

Hah whoops; meant SAs, 'course.

Take the money and run!

OP here. I ended up taking the PI offer. Thanks for your perspectives!