Munger v Gibson v Skadden choice... Forum

[FSK]

Skadden sounds like a scary wwII era german tank, Munger sounds like a sandwich, and gibson sounds like a guitar, so I'm pretty sure with CA being your long term goal you know the answer.

[JimmyConway]

I would say Gibson because of the transactional stuff but I don't think they do enough trans in SF for it to matter. Whatever you choose you're going to be absolutely fine so don't stress.

Maybe I came off as a troll earlier, but this is part of my thought process.

Yes, I am biased because I summered at Skadden, but in terms of substantive experience, Skadden NY would give OP more options to choose from in terms of practice areas. To me, thats important as a 1L about to head into OCI with little to idea what practice area best suits them.

I hear the point about choosing CA because that is what OP wants long term, and I would say that should definitively rule out Skadden NY if we were talking 2L SA. OP clearly has awesome grades and can interview well. Neither of those factors are going to change between now and 2L OCI.

If OP is lacking ties to CA, then yes maybe it is important to lock down a job in CA. Otherwise, there is value, both professionally and personally, in summering at Skadden NY. I don't think it should be knocked out automatically.

[smaug]

OP can just say "I didn't get a shot at trying (desired transactional practice) last summer and I'd love to (do a rotation/try some work/learn more).

There's no real advantage that OP gets from Skadden, dude/dudette.

[JimmyConway]

Other than getting a shot at that practice area and then having some rational approach to what firms to target 2L OCI.

I would rather have that learning experience via 1L summer as opposed to my 2L summer and risk having reason to do 3L OCI because I didn't know what I really wanted until SA season was over.

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

realize that 1L skadden will get you 2L skadden and hence a skadden offer. so it would be a mistake to work for skadden this summer if you don't want to work for them when you graduate.

the others as far as i'm aware don't have an open policy of giving 2L offers and hence full time offers to 1Ls like skadden, but given your resume you will get a 2L offer and hence a full time offer from the other two. thus choose the firm you want to start your career with. this means doing serious vault research and so on.

ultimately if you pick a firm you hate you will still get virtually any other firm in the country (assuming similar spring grades) so don't freak out too much.

make sure to not be a weird person, and to get involved in your community. if you do that your ceiling to not only be a good lawyer at a good firm, but a great influencer in your community, will be incredibly high.

congrats

[Anonymous User]

If you plan on driving (don't) Gibson's garage is a pain in the ass to get in and out of. You basically have to drive down a tiny alleyway that is closed half the time because of the Transbay/Salesforce construction. I realize you can park in SOMA, but just wanted to add an additional data point for you.

Used to work in that building. Getting in and out of the fucking garage took 10-15 mins on some days.

[bk1]

OP can just say "I didn't get a shot at trying (desired transactional practice) last summer and I'd love to (do a rotation/try some work/learn more).

There's no real advantage that OP gets from Skadden, dude/dudette.

IMO it's not about getting an advantage but rather about being able to have more options when you don't know whether you'd prefer litigation or transactional. For example, if OP summered 1L at Munger, it wouldn't make sense to split 2L summer between Munger and let's say Boies because transactional would be out the window. In that scenario, it would force a split between at least 1 firm with a strong transactional practice. If OP summered 1L at a place where he/she could split between transactional and litigation and preferred litigation, OP would then be able to split 2L between Munger/Boies.

I'll acknowledge that having to make a decision between the 2 off of an SA's worth of work is still not the most informed decision in the world, but it's better than limiting yourself.

[JimmyConway]

realize that 1L skadden will get you 2L skadden and hence a skadden offer. so it would be a mistake to work for skadden this summer if you don't want to work for them when you graduate.

This will be my last post because I realize my opinion is in the minority and I have said my piece.

But in my persona experience, many of my fellow Skadden 1L SA's went on to different firms in different markets. Many of them ended up getting an offer to join the firm after graduation even without spending any time with the firm in their 2L summer.

[JimmyConway]

OP can just say "I didn't get a shot at trying (desired transactional practice) last summer and I'd love to (do a rotation/try some work/learn more).

There's no real advantage that OP gets from Skadden, dude/dudette.

IMO it's not about getting an advantage but rather about being able to have more options when you don't know whether you'd prefer litigation or transactional. For example, if OP summered 1L at Munger, it wouldn't make sense to split 2L summer between Munger and let's say Boies because transactional would be out the window. In that scenario, it would force a split between at least 1 firm with a strong transactional practice. If OP summered 1L at a place where he/she could split between transactional and litigation and preferred litigation, OP would then be able to split 2L between Munger/Boies.

I'll acknowledge that having to make a decision between the 2 off of an SA's worth of work is still not the most informed decision in the world, but it's better than limiting yourself.

Nah, bro, F*** SKADDEN.

[rpupkin]

Other than getting a shot at that practice area and then having some rational approach to what firms to target 2L OCI.

I would rather have that learning experience via 1L summer as opposed to my 2L summer and risk having reason to do 3L OCI because I didn't know what I really wanted until SA season was over.

Look, if Skadden NY has some niche practice area that the OP really wants to pursue for some reason, then, sure, go to Skadden. But the fact that Skadden has 30 practice groups and GD has 10 (or whatever it is) shouldn't be a factor. It's not like you spend your 1L summer working in 15 different practice groups. No one would want that, as it would mean you'd just spend a few days in each group and not learn anything. In 8 to 10 weeks, you're going to have enough time to work on a few projects and get an overall sense of firm culture. That's true of all three firms.

[smaug]

You jest, but seriously, fuck Skadden.

OP will have many offers. OP can pivot for 2L summer: if after trying lit OP isn't sold, he/she can interview at other firms. There's no arcane knowledge here.

OP has a chance to work at some of the better firms in a difficult market, or OP can work at one of the largest law offices in the world, one that hires down to median at many schools and isn't particularly selective to begin with.

I expect there's a lit/transactional divide here. I'm not in LA, but definitely view MTO as a cut far above Skadden. Not so amazing that I think OP would be an absolute fool for choosing the other offers, but as doing meaningfully better work.

*shrug*

[FloridaCoastalorbust]

realize that 1L skadden will get you 2L skadden and hence a skadden offer. so it would be a mistake to work for skadden this summer if you don't want to work for them when you graduate.

This will be my last post because I realize my opinion is in the minority and I have said my piece.

But in my persona experience, many of my fellow Skadden 1L SA's went on to different firms in different markets. Many of them ended up getting an offer to join the firm after graduation even without spending any time with the firm in their 2L summer.

OP i retract my skadden statement b/c this person has much more than intuition, which is only what i have.

[Anonymous User]

OP here, would you please elaborate on not getting an offer to return for 2L? Do I understand correctly that Munger and GDC won't invite me back for 2L --> full time? What's the point of this charade then?

[cookiejar1]

Does Munger's 1L SF program guarantee a 2L offer? Haven't been a 1L for a while but I remember that SF position to be a diversity position with a "apply to the Munger LA office during your school's OCI" sort of attitude for after summer. Double check that. I don't think the SF office even takes 2L summers but I could be remembering things from my own interview there wrong.

You're a top 5% student who will have tons of options so just relax. 1L will be fun. If I were you I'd just go to NYC for the summer and get a taste of that NYC lifestyle. You'll probably gawk at a lot of it but you'll have fun - it's just a fucking summer. Then buckle down for 2L and think about what you really want (CA).

[hdunlop]

If you want CA go to CA. Don't over think that part of it. There are a ton of threads on Gibson v MTO. Search and read them, but the consensus is go with your gut. Don't think that changes much for 1L v 2 unless Gibson gives offers out of 1L with only a check in.

[jbagelboy]

OP here, the firms don't allow 1Ls to split. Must make a choice. Am I correct is saying that the difference between GDC and Munger is virtually non-existent, at least, when it comes to CA? Would one of them look better on my resume in case I end up hating litigation and want to get a 2L SA in transactional? Are there any distinguishing points at all (other than the culture)? Thanks!

Munger looks better overall. As for the lit/trans distinction, I really wouldn't worry about that kind of thing for a 1L SA. You've got two summers to figure that out.

My impression is that MTO diversity positions do not guarantee a 2L return, and by that I mean, it's not even a huge edge for getting an offer for 2L. Munger over Gibson for litigation is a clear choice in the abstract, but I might do Gibson as a 1L (assuming they give their 1Ls a definite touchback).

One more note on munger is geography within CA: if you want SF, Munger's a risk because they are very reluctant to take first years in their SF office--you start in LA. If you're coming off a fancy appellate clerkship and a compelling personal reason for SF, that's when Munger will consider letting you transfer.

As for the skadden back and forth, if this is a 1L Scholars program, that's a little different from choosing Skadden NY over Gibson SF or Munger for a 2L SA, which would be objectively ridiculous.

[jbagelboy]

And regarding Gibson and transactional work, I wouldn't overhype it. Gibson LA summers struggled to find enough sophisticated corporate work the past two summers and wound up having to write some lit memos to fill in time (which might be perfect if you want a mix, but wasn't great for all corp folks).

[20181989]

OP, PM me. I'm a former MTO SA who looked seriously at Gibson.

[sundance95]

Even a 2L SA at Munger isn't a guaranteed offer--it's known that they've no-offered SAs for work-product issues, e.g., that they feel writing is not up to snuff. I have no sense of whether offers are even available via their 1L diversity program. Munger's SA program rep is for a 'working' summer, however, and I would expect that to hold true for 1Ls--especially since Munger SF doesn't host any SAs except through the 1L diversity program, if I am not mistaken.

[rpupkin]

This is not a typical make-sure-you-get-an-offer situation. The OP is a URM and top 5% at a T-14. The OP will be able to work at a law firm after graduation if that's what he or she wants. Who cares whether MTO/Gibson/Skadden usually follows-up with an offer to return for 2L or after graduation?

OP: This is a great opportunity for you to get experience at competitive law firms. If you summer at MTO as a 1L, you can get a sense for whether you like the culture, and then you can summer somewhere else as a 2L. If you like MTO, you can return there after a clerkship. Really, the guaranteed/likely offer thing should not even be a consideration for you.

[sundance95]

This is not a typical make-sure-you-get-an-offer situation. The OP is a URM and top 5% at a T-14. The OP will be able to work at a law firm after graduation if that's what he or she wants. Who cares whether MTO/Gibson/Skadden usually follows-up with an offer to return for 2L or after graduation?

OP: This is a great opportunity for you to get experience at competitive law firms. If you summer at MTO as a 1L, you can get a sense for whether you like the culture, and then you can summer somewhere else as a 2L. If you like MTO, you can return there after a clerkship. Really, the guaranteed/likely offer thing should not even be a consideration for you.

Good point.

[hdunlop]

Ya at most its a tiebreaker.

[Person1111]

I thought MTO only had a summer program in LA . . .

[rpupkin]

I thought MTO only had a summer program in LA . . .

Generally true, but they hire 1L diversity SAs in the SF office.

[ballouttacontrol]

OP shouldn't go to Skadden NY because it's Skadden NY.

yea, pretty much this. also, no one in CA (esp. the Bay Area) gives much of a shit about Skadden--they'll be much more impressed with the other choices.

You really, really hate the big NY firms.

If nothing else, getting a 1L SA at Skadden has a strong signal effect. Bay Area lawyers might not care much about Skadden, but they know the NYC office is one of the premier offices in the legal world and that it isn't easy to get a 1L scholar position there. Skadden NY also offers a lot more diverse work in terms of lit+corporate than either of those firms. Gibson SF is almost entirely lit - most of their corporate work comes out of Menlo park.

I just think there is something to getting a new experience in your life. 1L summer is a great opportunity for that. I don't think going to one firm or the other significantly alters OPs options via OCI.

Lol wtf is this