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Been thinking about big law exit options. What do city attorneys do? Think big east/west coast cities. Fun gig? Well paid? Happy life? I'm genuinely curious, as I don't think I once heard in law school anyone talk about city attorney options. Everyone seemed exclusively focused on federal- or state-level positions...

Do you think it sounds fun to prosecute parking violations?

Anonymous User wrote:Do you think it sounds fun to prosecute parking violations?

Appropriate use of anon.

Redamon1 wrote:Been thinking about big law exit options. What do city attorneys do? Think big east/west coast cities. Fun gig? Well paid? Happy life? I'm genuinely curious, as I don't think I once heard in law school anyone talk about city attorney options. Everyone seemed exclusively focused on federal- or state-level positions...

It is undoubtedly a better better work life balance. I cannot imagine city attorneys pulling 60+ hour weeks.

Redamon1 wrote:Been thinking about big law exit options. What do city attorneys do? Think big east/west coast cities. Fun gig? Well paid? Happy life? I'm genuinely curious, as I don't think I once heard in law school anyone talk about city attorney options. Everyone seemed exclusively focused on federal- or state-level positions...

Being *the* city attorney is probably a good gig. I doubt most people would go from big law to entry-level-ish city attorney gigs because the pay cut would be pretty steep. But it can be decently interesting with reasonable hours, depending on what you like (am more thinking about the non-parking-ticket-prosecutions part - things like land use and zoning).

I think it depends on the city. I interviewed at LA one time and most of the attorneys seemed pretty miserable.

I never heard of the term city attorney, but apparently they exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_attorney
http://jobaps.com/MIL/sup/bulpreview.as ... 405&R3=001
http://www.dallascityattorney.com/Job_Opps.html

Sounds like a mini version of a State AG's office?

I've always thought that medium sized town, say 100k people, city attorney would be the most fun attorney job I can imagine. Particularly if it's a city I'm personally connected to, like where I grew up.

Seems like it would have a huge variety of interesting work to do, even if a lot of it is low stakes

Not that I know anything at all though. But you're not alone in thinking it

reasonableperson wrote:I never heard of the term city attorney, but apparently they exist.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/City_attorney
http://jobaps.com/MIL/sup/bulpreview.as ... 405&R3=001
http://www.dallascityattorney.com/Job_Opps.html

Sounds like a mini version of a State AG's office?

The Dallas job description makes the job sound pretty interesting: diverse case load, issues, constituencies and courts, and a mix of litigation and transactional work. (Not that I would want to live in Dallas... )

practicing law is not "fun"

I worked as a legal intern for the city attorney's office in a mid-size city my 1L summer, so I can speak to this a bit. For reference this was a mid-size city with a department of roughly 40-50 attorney's.

The case load is both varied and interesting, encompassing a fair bit of employment defense, torts that range from slip and falls to the occasional wrongful death, contract work between the city and major developers, and legal research when the mayor or the city council want some options (Ex: What ordinances have other cities passed regarding Uber / give us some options). At the lower levels there's a significant investigative component, as in you'll be the one driving out to various city buildings to talk to folks about whatever issue is at hand, going to court to collect your judgments against people who ran over fire hydrants, plenty of depositions, and the occasional jury trial with help from your seniors. These are the jobs you get straight out of law school, and in a friendly department this is a great place to gain experience and contacts even if you're not committed to city government.

As a mid-level city attorney (My city didn't use that designation, but that's the rough equivalent) you would get assigned the bigger dollar value cases, have more jury trials, and get to assign the small stuff to junior city attorney's. By this point you would also know a fair number of folks in other departments and could get them to help you / you'd be a point of contact for them in the city attorney's office. These positions seemed the best as you had significant control over your day to day, precious little oversight as long as your cases were doing alright, and a good paycheck for a mid-size city.

Finally there are the senior city attorney's / The City Attorney. While the City Attorney is almost always appointed by the mayor and can either be barely involved and setting up their own political career or heavily invested as they choose, the senior city attorney's run the shop. They farm out the big cases (Usually there's a mid-level city attorney who is designated to farm out the run of the mill stuff), work on whatever they choose, and run herd over the entire department. This seemed to actually be quite a bit of work, and these folks were the only ones who seemed to work outside 9-5 regularly instead of just before trial.

The pay range for my city was, roughly, 50-115K depending on level and seniority. After 2-4 years you could expect to be around 65-75K, with the usual retirement benefits / pension. Not as good as fed gov, but not bad by any means in a low CoL city.

If you have any specific questions, just ask.

In CA, many cities under 100k people farm out their legal work to firms that specialize in municipal law. Thus, the pay is superior to government but much less than big law (although your COL can be good). Hours really depend. If you get into client advisory (as opposed to litigation or transactional) then you'll have very weird hours since you have to attend city council meetings and other hearings which can go late into the night.

The work is varied. People I know in the practice love it. But you need to like government and have the patience to deal with local residents and crazy council members.

I can't speak for the larger cities (i.e. SF or LA) which have their own massive legal departments that probably feel a lot more like working for the state AG.

City attorney in my hometown was thanked at the end of a few movies that filmed in the area because he helped facilitate the process. So that's a nice benefit.

Anonymous User wrote:I worked as a legal intern for the city attorney's office in a mid-size city my 1L summer, so I can speak to this a bit. For reference this was a mid-size city with a department of roughly 40-50 attorney's.

The case load is both varied and interesting, encompassing a fair bit of employment defense, torts that range from slip and falls to the occasional wrongful death, contract work between the city and major developers, and legal research when the mayor or the city council want some options (Ex: What ordinances have other cities passed regarding Uber / give us some options). At the lower levels there's a significant investigative component, as in you'll be the one driving out to various city buildings to talk to folks about whatever issue is at hand, going to court to collect your judgments against people who ran over fire hydrants, plenty of depositions, and the occasional jury trial with help from your seniors. These are the jobs you get straight out of law school, and in a friendly department this is a great place to gain experience and contacts even if you're not committed to city government.

As a mid-level city attorney (My city didn't use that designation, but that's the rough equivalent) you would get assigned the bigger dollar value cases, have more jury trials, and get to assign the small stuff to junior city attorney's. By this point you would also know a fair number of folks in other departments and could get them to help you / you'd be a point of contact for them in the city attorney's office. These positions seemed the best as you had significant control over your day to day, precious little oversight as long as your cases were doing alright, and a good paycheck for a mid-size city.

Finally there are the senior city attorney's / The City Attorney. While the City Attorney is almost always appointed by the mayor and can either be barely involved and setting up their own political career or heavily invested as they choose, the senior city attorney's run the shop. They farm out the big cases (Usually there's a mid-level city attorney who is designated to farm out the run of the mill stuff), work on whatever they choose, and run herd over the entire department. This seemed to actually be quite a bit of work, and these folks were the only ones who seemed to work outside 9-5 regularly instead of just before trial.

The pay range for my city was, roughly, 50-115K depending on level and seniority. After 2-4 years you could expect to be around 65-75K, with the usual retirement benefits / pension. Not as good as fed gov, but not bad by any means in a low CoL city.

If you have any specific questions, just ask.

Mind explaining what you mean by "midsize" city? Like, how big is the population?

I worked clerked for City of Chicago 2L summer and loved it! The pay will never be comparable to biglaw, actually pay is pretty terrible. BUT, for a lot of attorneys I know, for various reasons pay isn't the top priority for them. I think the work can be pretty interesting depending on what department you are in. My impression was "prosecuting parking tickets" was for the newbies only, and experienced attorneys get really meaty stuff like federal civil rights, etc.. I never saw attorneys in my department work more than 40 hours, and that includes the very high up supervisors. I think it is a sweet gig for parents.

Are there any opportunities for transactional lawyers in city gov? I feel like it's pretty limited, even in big cities like NYC.

BigZuck wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I worked as a legal intern for the city attorney's office in a mid-size city my 1L summer, so I can speak to this a bit. For reference this was a mid-size city with a department of roughly 40-50 attorney's.

The case load is both varied and interesting, encompassing a fair bit of employment defense, torts that range from slip and falls to the occasional wrongful death, contract work between the city and major developers, and legal research when the mayor or the city council want some options (Ex: What ordinances have other cities passed regarding Uber / give us some options). At the lower levels there's a significant investigative component, as in you'll be the one driving out to various city buildings to talk to folks about whatever issue is at hand, going to court to collect your judgments against people who ran over fire hydrants, plenty of depositions, and the occasional jury trial with help from your seniors. These are the jobs you get straight out of law school, and in a friendly department this is a great place to gain experience and contacts even if you're not committed to city government.

As a mid-level city attorney (My city didn't use that designation, but that's the rough equivalent) you would get assigned the bigger dollar value cases, have more jury trials, and get to assign the small stuff to junior city attorney's. By this point you would also know a fair number of folks in other departments and could get them to help you / you'd be a point of contact for them in the city attorney's office. These positions seemed the best as you had significant control over your day to day, precious little oversight as long as your cases were doing alright, and a good paycheck for a mid-size city.

Finally there are the senior city attorney's / The City Attorney. While the City Attorney is almost always appointed by the mayor and can either be barely involved and setting up their own political career or heavily invested as they choose, the senior city attorney's run the shop. They farm out the big cases (Usually there's a mid-level city attorney who is designated to farm out the run of the mill stuff), work on whatever they choose, and run herd over the entire department. This seemed to actually be quite a bit of work, and these folks were the only ones who seemed to work outside 9-5 regularly instead of just before trial.

The pay range for my city was, roughly, 50-115K depending on level and seniority. After 2-4 years you could expect to be around 65-75K, with the usual retirement benefits / pension. Not as good as fed gov, but not bad by any means in a low CoL city.

If you have any specific questions, just ask.

Mind explaining what you mean by "midsize" city? Like, how big is the population?

Between 250,000 - 500,000 in the city proper.

Anonymous User wrote:Are there any opportunities for transactional lawyers in city gov? I feel like it's pretty limited, even in big cities like NYC.

Yes, in my midsize city we had a few attorney's who did primarily transactional/contract work and zero litigation, some of whom did some research for ordinances on the side. Also if your city has control over an airport there will definitely be a group of transactional attorney's who manage the many vendors and airlines.

What kind of experience does one need to nab a City attorney job in a major city? Like LA for example; I saw the salaries start at 86k up to 200k for a Sr. If that's a strict 9-6 job, I'd take it in a heartbeat over BigLaw.

SupCutie wrote:What kind of experience does one need to nab a City Attorney job in a major city? Like LA for example; I saw the salaries start at 86k up to 200k for a Sr. If that's a strict 9-6 job, I'd take it in a heartbeat over BigLaw.

Usually 2-3 yrs experience, much like state prosecutors in small/mid regions.

A large city like New York however, has a competitive entry-level program.
http://www.nyc.gov/html/law/html/career ... tion.shtml

They call their city attorneys, "Assistant Corporation Counsel", and the dept as a whole is headed by the Corporation Counsel.
Pays roughly the same as the state prosecutors in the boroughs.

This all sounds promising. Now I have to pick a city.

CIty agencies/department look for people who are truly dedicated to public interest, not somebody looking for "big law exit options" and a "fun gig" that pays well. And believe me, they are -VERY- good at sniffing it out. Also, in cities like NYC, these departments usually require at least two years commitment.

Good luck.

Thanks for the tip. I can see you sniffed me out instantly.

LionelHutzJD wrote:CIty agencies/department look for people who are truly dedicated to public interest, not somebody looking for "big law exit options" and a "fun gig" that pays well. And believe me, they are -VERY- good at sniffing it out. Also, in cities like NYC, these departments usually require at least two years commitment.

Good luck.

What are a few ways working for the city could lead to biglaw? Isn't career trajectory pretty much irreversible once you start out working in small govt?

BNA wrote:

LionelHutzJD wrote:CIty agencies/department look for people who are truly dedicated to public interest, not somebody looking for "big law exit options" and a "fun gig" that pays well. And believe me, they are -VERY- good at sniffing it out. Also, in cities like NYC, these departments usually require at least two years commitment.

Good luck.

What are a few ways working for the city could lead to biglaw? Isn't career trajectory pretty much irreversible once you start out working in small govt?

It's difficult for me to say as i'm not too familiar with biglaw hiring. I would imagine simply litigation experience with a city department can help you get into biglaw. I wouldn't go so far as to say irreversible. Again, i'm not too familiar with biglaw hiring.

BNA wrote:

LionelHutzJD wrote:CIty agencies/department look for people who are truly dedicated to public interest, not somebody looking for "big law exit options" and a "fun gig" that pays well. And believe me, they are -VERY- good at sniffing it out. Also, in cities like NYC, these departments usually require at least two years commitment.

Good luck.

What are a few ways working for the city could lead to biglaw? Isn't career trajectory pretty much irreversible once you start out working in small govt?

This depends on size of the city and practice areas within the office. For instance, in Philadelphia, there are some attorneys who almost solely work on section 1983 claims against the city or city employees. If conflicts exist or they are too slammed, cases get contracted out to a handful of big firms. There are hiring channels open between those firms and the the city attorney's office (the "Philadelphia Law Department"), and the same is true for other practice areas that overlap with biglaw practice.

In smaller cities and municipalities, attorneys will likely have exposure to a diverse number of practice areas, but practice in land use, zoning, labor/employment, contracts are pretty standard and could help you land in a small/midsize firm that gets contract work from municipalities. I know it's common in New Jersey, though the firms aren't "biglaw" and the pay can vary wildly.