NYU EIW -- missing a day? Forum

[Cilia]

I bailed on my last day of EIP interviews, but we had four days, not three, and I already knew from the first three days that more couldn't possibly matter. That being said, those determinations were made on the ground, not months in advance. In your shoes I would have told my friend I couldn't commit right now until I had more information, due to the importance of those interview days and having as low anxiety a mindset as possible.

So practically speaking, I would regretfully decline to participate as part of the wedding and explain why you can't commit one way or the other yet until closer to the date. Most wedding RSVPs arent even due until 3-4 weeks before the rehearsal anyway, so its not like your friend should expect an answer now. If you mass mail in June and receive an offer by early July, you should have plenty of time to let your friend know that you'll be in attendance.

You also have to consider the firms that are interviewing on that particular day. If you really want a particular firm (like somewhere in a small market, or a boutique, or a DC firm), that day could make or break you. If its just generic NY transactional, then it really doesn't matter as much between simpson, cravath, dpw, ect., and interviewing with some but not the other is fine IMO (assuming you already have an offer in hand).

Yeah. I'm about to tell her that either way I won't be able to participate in the way that she wants but I'm going to see if it would be feasible to skip the last day and let her know that part in a few months....I also am thinking that I would like to at least be able to interview with some DC firms, so I'll take that part into account

[Avian]

Yeah. I'm about to tell her that either way I won't be able to participate in the way that she wants but I'm going to see if it would be feasible to skip the last day and let her know that part in a few months....I also am thinking that I would like to at least be able to interview with some DC firms, so I'll take that part into account

It sounds like you came to what I think is the right decision. People who did not go to law school usually cannot comprehend how absolutely critical something like EIW is to your legal career. You do not get a second shot and you drastically reduce your chances of ever working in biglaw if you don't secure a 2L SA through EIW. I think non-lawyers tend to assume that the hiring process for biglaw must be like other professions where you are hired after you finish school. It may help to explain exactly why this is so important to your friend so that she understands, if she doesn't already.

[Slytherpuff]

Based on my experience this past year: if you want DC, don't skip the last day of EIW. Most of my NY-only friends had lighter Friday schedules, but anyone targeting DC had a lot of Friday DC interviews. (I think 7 of mine were that day.) It really will depend on which firms are interviewing on what days this year, and you won't know that until late April at the earliest.

[wons]

You really shouldn't do this. Interviewing is a numbers game, and you always want to maximize your odds. If the schedule comes out and there are no firms you're interested in on the last day, that's different, but even then you want to participate in case you're not getting the callbacks you expect.

As someone who interviews, I can tell you I would view someone who skipped a day of OCI for a wedding as someone who hasn't yet come to terms with what it takes to be a professional.

EDIT: This is not to say I wouldn't, say, skip out at 3:30 to catch a 5PM plane so that I could arrive in time for the cake cutting and dancing. Ditching a couple of slots is very different than ditching an entire day.

[run26.2]

With EIW being only 3 days, it does have a bigger impact. I would check into whether you can trade and, if so, try to put my interviews on days 1 and 2 and trade any that you get on day 3. I guess I would point out that this is only the first of many, many times that the law will force you to choose between life and career. Most of the long-tenured and happy attorneys I know tend to draw lines around time away from work.

I can personally attest to the fact that it is possible (perhaps even desirable) to get a job outside OCI. I got interviews at the only two firms I contacted outside of OCI, both of which were v10s (not that I think v-ranking means much, but just to frame it in terms of the type of firm we're talking about), and accepted one of those offers. I think with your grades, you should not have much trouble finding job.

Finally, whatever you decide, do it soon and get comfortable with the decision and don't second guess it. You want to have minimum stress at EIW as you will perform better. Good luck.

[BaiAilian2013]

I would not miss a day of EIW - and it was 4 days when I was there. It's not worth the risk. And if nothing else, it will increase your stress level, which is the last thing you need. I agree with everything wons said - if you can bail an hour early to put in an appearance, that's as far as I would go.

[cron1834]

Your friend is being a dick by not having a weekend wedding. I know lots of people that wouldn't be able to attend.

If you can get a job ahead of OCI, great. But if not, you're risking huge swings of money and life outcomes for a boorish ceremony that, for some reason, isn't on a weekend. No way. You getting the right job is more important than one more guest at her wedding. This isn't debatable.

[Tls2016]

If you are targeting DC please bid carefully. People targeting DC sometimes strike out by not including enough NYC firms. Like I said,OCI is the only time employers come to you in mass, so maximize your opportunities.
I think everyone should work hard to get a job before OCI and you should do whatever you can to at least get some interviews if not an offer.

[Cilia]

Based on my experience this past year: if you want DC, don't skip the last day of EIW. Most of my NY-only friends had lighter Friday schedules, but anyone targeting DC had a lot of Friday DC interviews. (I think 7 of mine were that day.) It really will depend on which firms are interviewing on what days this year, and you won't know that until late April at the earliest.

Okay that's helpful. Thanks!

[Cilia]

If you are targeting DC please bid carefully. People targeting DC sometimes strike out by not including enough NYC firms. Like I said,OCI is the only time employers come to you in mass, so maximize your opportunities.
I think everyone should work hard to get a job before OCI and you should do whatever you can to at least get some interviews if not an offer.

I mean I'd be perfectly content to live and work in NYC, which is partly why I came. I just want to keep DC open as an option since I am interested in government and I have ties to DC because I went to undergrad there. And it's also possible that DC firms will be more receptive to me. I'm very risk averse lol. But I definitely see your point

[Cilia]

Your friend is being a dick by not having a weekend wedding. I know lots of people that wouldn't be able to attend.

If you can get a job ahead of OCI, great. But if not, you're risking huge swings of money and life outcomes for a boorish ceremony that, for some reason, isn't on a weekend. No way. You getting the right job is more important than one more guest at her wedding. This isn't debatable.

I don't think she scheduled it this way to personally afflict people. I assumed it was the cheaper option. In any case, I want to go and it would be very difficult for me to skip it. But obviously if a day of EIW could impact me for the rest of my natural life then I have to suck it up. I kind of wish I had your attitude, but I just don't. I know the choice would be easy for some people, but it's not an easy choice for me. Thanks for responding though.

[Cilia]

You really shouldn't do this. Interviewing is a numbers game, and you always want to maximize your odds. If the schedule comes out and there are no firms you're interested in on the last day, that's different, but even then you want to participate in case you're not getting the callbacks you expect.

As someone who interviews, I can tell you I would view someone who skipped a day of OCI for a wedding as someone who hasn't yet come to terms with what it takes to be a professional.

EDIT: This is not to say I wouldn't, say, skip out at 3:30 to catch a 5PM plane so that I could arrive in time for the cake cutting and dancing. Ditching a couple of slots is very different than ditching an entire day.

Okay. It's nice to hear an opinion from someone who does interviews. Thanks for the advice

[El Pollito]

If you are targeting DC please bid carefully. People targeting DC sometimes strike out by not including enough NYC firms. Like I said,OCI is the only time employers come to you in mass, so maximize your opportunities.
I think everyone should work hard to get a job before OCI and you should do whatever you can to at least get some interviews if not an offer.

I mean I'd be perfectly content to live and work in NYC, which is partly why I came. I just want to keep DC open as an option since I am interested in government and I have ties to DC because I went to undergrad there. And it's also possible that DC firms will be more receptive to me. I'm very risk averse lol. But I definitely see your point

then don't miss any OCI

[BmoreOrLess]

If your friend is truly a good friend, they should understand you missing their wedding or giving them late notice on whether or not you can make it. Obviously GULC is very different than NYU, but I had friends with top grades who struggled to get any offers in DC.

Weddings blow anyways. I wouldn't chance this. Go to their bachelor/ette party and call it a day.

[Anonymous User]

I missed a grandparent's funeral for EIW.

[Cilia]

If your friend is truly a good friend, they should understand you missing their wedding or giving them late notice on whether or not you can make it. Obviously GULC is very different than NYU, but I had friends with top grades who struggled to get any offers in DC.

Weddings blow anyways. I wouldn't chance this. Go to their bachelor/ette party and call it a day.

If your friend is truly a good friend, they should understand you missing their wedding or giving them late notice on whether or not you can make it. Obviously GULC is very different than NYU, but I had friends with top grades who struggled to get any offers in DC.

Okay at the risk of perpetuating gender stereotypes, I have to say that many girls I've met care more about their weddings than just about anything in the universe. It's hard to make people who feel that way, and who aren't solely focused on advancing their careers right now, understand the import of something like EIW. In the end, you might be totally right that it's not worth the risk. But it seems like a lot of posters on here have an expectation that people who haven't experienced law school or med school or whatever will simply understand all of the stress and competition that goes along with it. I just don't think it's that simple. I mean, at the end of the day, you seem to know more about the possible outcomes than I do, so you're probably right about the risks involved. I just disagree with the idea that being disappointed and not comprehending something makes someone a bad friend either.

[Cilia]

I missed a grandparent's funeral for EIW.

I'm very sorry to hear that.

[stannis]

I'd do EIW and not risk it

2L OCI isnt something to fuck around with considering it could affect the next 3 yrs of ur life and the trajectory of ur legal career

[baal hadad]

I missed a grandparent's funeral for EIW.

You get an offer?

[Anonymous User]

If you have the grades, why don't you try and get Pre-OCI callbacks/offers before the wedding. Yeah maybe you'll miss 7 potential firms that you could "click" with but if anything you can mail later. Also can't you stack your bids so almost all of your interviews are on the 10th/11th?

I don't know how to stack anything at this point but my mentor said most of her interviews happened on the 10th and 11th anyway. But she definitely didn't plan that this far in advance which I'm seeing is part of my problem. But anyway from what I've learned, you bid first but the firms you bid on have to choose to interview you. So I'm not really sure how much control I have with regard to timing. Another thing to find out at my appointment.

This is wrong, btw. Firms have zero say in whether they interview you or not at EIW. It's entirely a matter of the lottery system (not true at many other schools but true at NYU and the rest of the top tier).

You have no control over timing of interviews (except that you can cancel interviews that you have already been assigned). You will be assigned interviews at different times of day and on different days based on a lottery. Each firm only interviews on one day of EIW. If you skip a day of EIW, you will not interview with any of the firms interviewing that day. However, you won't know more than a couple of weeks in advance (if that) which firms are interviewing on which day.

*Generally* speaking, the third day of EIW has been home to more smaller or non-NYC firms in recent years, with more of the biggest NYC names interviewing on days 1 and 2. But that's an extreme generalization, and plenty of big names interviewed on the last day. (And, given that you're interested in DC, that generalization isn't even necessarily a positive for you - if you miss, say, Covington and A&P on day 3, you've done yourself a huge disservice.)

[Cilia]

If you have the grades, why don't you try and get Pre-OCI callbacks/offers before the wedding. Yeah maybe you'll miss 7 potential firms that you could "click" with but if anything you can mail later. Also can't you stack your bids so almost all of your interviews are on the 10th/11th?

I don't know how to stack anything at this point but my mentor said most of her interviews happened on the 10th and 11th anyway. But she definitely didn't plan that this far in advance which I'm seeing is part of my problem. But anyway from what I've learned, you bid first but the firms you bid on have to choose to interview you. So I'm not really sure how much control I have with regard to timing. Another thing to find out at my appointment.

This is wrong, btw. Firms have zero say in whether they interview you or not at EIW. It's entirely a matter of the lottery system (not true at many other schools but true at NYU and the rest of the top tier).

You have no control over timing of interviews (except that you can cancel interviews that you have already been assigned). You will be assigned interviews at different times of day and on different days based on a lottery. Each firm only interviews on one day of EIW. If you skip a day of EIW, you will not interview with any of the firms interviewing that day. However, you won't know more than a couple of weeks in advance (if that) which firms are interviewing on which day.

*Generally* speaking, the third day of EIW has been home to more smaller or non-NYC firms in recent years, with more of the biggest NYC names interviewing on days 1 and 2. But that's an extreme generalization, and plenty of big names interviewed on the last day. (And, given that you're interested in DC, that generalization isn't even necessarily a positive for you - if you miss, say, Covington and A&P on day 3, you've done yourself a huge disservice.)

Thank you for clarifying this! Dumb misunderstanding on my part. So it's basically the same as the Spring OCI bidding/lottery they're doing now. What's sad is that I know for a fact that I'm not the only 1L here that's EIW clueless at this point. I guess because it's still early. I thank you all for your patience!

[BaiAilian2013]

If your friend is truly a good friend, they should understand you missing their wedding or giving them late notice on whether or not you can make it. Obviously GULC is very different than NYU, but I had friends with top grades who struggled to get any offers in DC.

Weddings blow anyways. I wouldn't chance this. Go to their bachelor/ette party and call it a day.

If your friend is truly a good friend, they should understand you missing their wedding or giving them late notice on whether or not you can make it. Obviously GULC is very different than NYU, but I had friends with top grades who struggled to get any offers in DC.

Okay at the risk of perpetuating gender stereotypes, I have to say that many girls I've met care more about their weddings than just about anything in the universe. It's hard to make people who feel that way, and who aren't solely focused on advancing their careers right now, understand the import of something like EIW. In the end, you might be totally right that it's not worth the risk. But it seems like a lot of posters on here have an expectation that people who haven't experienced law school or med school or whatever will simply understand all of the stress and competition that goes along with it. I just don't think it's that simple. I mean, at the end of the day, you seem to know more about the possible outcomes than I do, so you're probably right about the risks involved. I just disagree with the idea that being disappointed and not comprehending something makes someone a bad friend either.

I know not everybody knows how law firm hiring works, but I think the line of thinking behind this kind of post is that once you explain it, she should believe you and thus understand.

(It's a dynamic I'm very sensitive to because there's a feature of my practice I'm forever explaining to my husband, and we have to keep having the conversation over again because at the end of the day I think he just doesn't believe me, because his practice is different. So you know... Hopefully your friend is more open-minded.)

[enibs]

I don’t think there’s as clear an answer to this question as some are suggesting. Yes, EIW is important. So is the wedding of a very close friend. There will be costs and benefits to either choice.

In order to assess the costs of missing the last day of EIW, there are a couple of pieces of relevant information that you’re currently missing but should have at least a couple of months prior to EIW: (1) your second semester grades and (2) what firms are interviewing on the last day of EIW. If your goal is simply to get a Big Law SA job, and if you keep your grades up to at least the level you did last semester, you will accomplish that goal regardless of whether you skip the last day of EIW. If you are particularly interested in a specific set of firms, you may hurt your chances with them if they are interviewing on the last day of EIW and you aren’t there for that day. But I say “may”, because if your grades are good and if you write to them and convincingly express your interest in them and explain the situation, you may be able to get a screening interview or even go straight to a callback outside the EIW process.

My view is that if your second semester grades are at least as good as your first, you should skip the last day of EIW and go to the wedding. You would then construct your EIW bid list to bid only on firms that will be doing EIW on the first two days. If you can get, say, 8 or 9 interviews on each of the first two days, that’s as good as getting 5-6 interviews on each of the three days. And you should write – in June or July – to any firm you’ll miss on the third day that you’re interested in, explaining the situation and asking if it would be possible to do a screening interview, either at their office or by phone, in advance of EIW. That will get you into the system before they decide on callbacks. For the New York firms, if you’re in New York before EIW starts, it would be easy to show up at their office for a screening interview, but otherwise, a phone screener would do. Some firms may not accommodate you, but many will, particularly the big New York firms. Indeed, if your grades are good enough relative to their norm, they may skip the screener and just invite you for a callback (it would be presumptuous to ask them to do that, so I’d just ask for a screening interview, but some may volunteer a callback). It’s important to contact them early, though. After they’ve finished EIW interviews and decided on callbacks, they’re less likely to accommodate someone outside the EIW process.

You may miss out on a few firms as a result of missing the last day of EIW, but you will have enough options. Of course, if your grades tank in the second semester, then it will be a different analysis.

[Cilia]

If your friend is truly a good friend, they should understand you missing their wedding or giving them late notice on whether or not you can make it. Obviously GULC is very different than NYU, but I had friends with top grades who struggled to get any offers in DC.

Weddings blow anyways. I wouldn't chance this. Go to their bachelor/ette party and call it a day.

If your friend is truly a good friend, they should understand you missing their wedding or giving them late notice on whether or not you can make it. Obviously GULC is very different than NYU, but I had friends with top grades who struggled to get any offers in DC.

Okay at the risk of perpetuating gender stereotypes, I have to say that many girls I've met care more about their weddings than just about anything in the universe. It's hard to make people who feel that way, and who aren't solely focused on advancing their careers right now, understand the import of something like EIW. In the end, you might be totally right that it's not worth the risk. But it seems like a lot of posters on here have an expectation that people who haven't experienced law school or med school or whatever will simply understand all of the stress and competition that goes along with it. I just don't think it's that simple. I mean, at the end of the day, you seem to know more about the possible outcomes than I do, so you're probably right about the risks involved. I just disagree with the idea that being disappointed and not comprehending something makes someone a bad friend either.

I know not everybody knows how law firm hiring works, but I think the line of thinking behind this kind of post is that once you explain it, she should believe you and thus understand.

(It's a dynamic I'm very sensitive to because there's a feature of my practice I'm forever explaining to my husband, and we have to keep having the conversation over again because at the end of the day I think he just doesn't believe me, because his practice is different. So you know... Hopefully your friend is more open-minded.)

I understand what you mean. I actually talked to her and explained everything that was going on; she was surprisingly cool about it, so that was a big relief. I'm sure it's very different when trying to deal with a spouse who would have different expectations and needs..

[Anonymous User]

I don’t think there’s as clear an answer to this question as some are suggesting. Yes, EIW is important. So is the wedding of a very close friend. There will be costs and benefits to either choice.

In order to assess the costs of missing the last day of EIW, there are a couple of pieces of relevant information that you’re currently missing but should have at least a couple of months prior to EIW: (1) your second semester grades and (2) what firms are interviewing on the last day of EIW. If your goal is simply to get a Big Law SA job, and if you keep your grades up to at least the level you did last semester, you will accomplish that goal regardless of whether you skip the last day of EIW. If you are particularly interested in a specific set of firms, you may hurt your chances with them if they are interviewing on the last day of EIW and you aren’t there for that day. But I say “may”, because if your grades are good and if you write to them and convincingly express your interest in them and explain the situation, you may be able to get a screening interview or even go straight to a callback outside the EIW process.

My view is that if your second semester grades are at least as good as your first, you should skip the last day of EIW and go to the wedding. You would then construct your EIW bid list to bid only on firms that will be doing EIW on the first two days. If you can get, say, 8 or 9 interviews on each of the first two days, that’s as good as getting 5-6 interviews on each of the three days. And you should write – in June or July – to any firm you’ll miss on the third day that you’re interested in, explaining the situation and asking if it would be possible to do a screening interview, either at their office or by phone, in advance of EIW. That will get you into the system before they decide on callbacks. For the New York firms, if you’re in New York before EIW starts, it would be easy to show up at their office for a screening interview, but otherwise, a phone screener would do. Some firms may not accommodate you, but many will, particularly the big New York firms. Indeed, if your grades are good enough relative to their norm, they may skip the screener and just invite you for a callback (it would be presumptuous to ask them to do that, so I’d just ask for a screening interview, but some may volunteer a callback). It’s important to contact them early, though. After they’ve finished EIW interviews and decided on callbacks, they’re less likely to accommodate someone outside the EIW process.

You may miss out on a few firms as a result of missing the last day of EIW, but you will have enough options. Of course, if your grades tank in the second semester, then it will be a different analysis.

Well this was both terrifying and informative lol. I appreciate you breaking it down though. Pressure's on for the second round of exams I guess...