Disclosing disability to employers... Forum

[LeDique]

I'm totally using this "common wisdom is don't disclose disability unless you want something" in a brief. "Clearly the only reason she disclosed this disability for which she needed no accommodations was because she thought it would prevent her from being terminated for being terrible at her job."

Wait, haven't you been writing this more subtly every time already?

[jrass]

Can a LS remove you for disclosing that you are suicidal? That would discourage others from seeking help. Having this post up could discourage others from seeking help.

While removing them may make them more suicidal, there's no safe harbor provision stating that putting the student in the therapy shields a school from liability. Most of these schools' governance documents oblige them to follow the best wishes of the board of trustees or whatever. From their perspective, a 100% chance of a student killing themselves home with their family is a lot better than a 10% chance of them killing themselves on campus. You can blame lawyers for that. It's not the administration's fault.

[Manali]

Can a LS remove you for disclosing that you are suicidal? That would discourage others from seeking help. Having this post up could discourage others from seeking help.

Yes, they can and they do. My mental health actually worsened considerably by forcing me to withdraw. And ten months later, bastards didn't let me back in despite overwhelmingly positive evaluations from my treatment providers. I'm at 3.85/top 1% in my class at my new school, so perhaps it was a blessing in disguise, but last year was absolutely my lowest point emotionally speaking.

The following article will shed some light on the sadly too common phenomenon:
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/14/how- ... 45492.html

[cron1834]

Nony you are engaged in some serious windmill-tilting trying to reason with a legit nutcase all the time. Just let her lie cheat and steal.

[xael]

Do u ever think u are t1% because you've been a 2L like 6 times

[cron1834]

[A. Nony Mouse]

Nony you are engaged in some serious windmill-tilting trying to reason with a legit nutcase all the time. Just let her lie cheat and steal.

Mostly I worry about people reading this thread in the future. Think of the children.

[Magic Hat]

If 1L made you want to kill yourself how are you going to handle biglaw? Plus based on the Info you have provided, you are the same poster on another message board ago was actually banned from campus for some sort of outburst/breakdown. You should not be in the legal profession. Sorry but it's the truth.

[03152016]

If 1L made you want to kill yourself how are you going to handle biglaw? Plus based on the Info you have provided, you are the same poster on another message board ago was actually banned from campus for some sort of outburst/breakdown. You should not be in the legal profession. Sorry but it's the truth.

she's not looking to do biglaw, iirc
also, this comment is unnecessary and not helpful
i don't think we should be discussing what a poster may or may not have done IRL unless she volunteers that information

[cron1834]

Nony you are engaged in some serious windmill-tilting trying to reason with a legit nutcase all the time. Just let her lie cheat and steal.

Mostly I worry about people reading this thread in the future. Think of the children.

Fair enough, I just found the Bluelotus canon to be so utterly self serving on her part.

[Manali]

If 1L made you want to kill yourself how are you going to handle biglaw? Plus based on the Info you have provided, you are the same poster on another message board ago was actually banned from campus for some sort of outburst/breakdown. You should not be in the legal profession. Sorry but it's the truth.

she's not looking to do biglaw, iirc
also, this comment is unnecessary and not helpful
i don't think we should be discussing what a poster may or may not have done IRL unless she volunteers that information

No interest in Big Law; did not even do OCI.

[20160810]

If 1L made you want to kill yourself how are you going to handle biglaw? Plus based on the Info you have provided, you are the same poster on another message board ago was actually banned from campus for some sort of outburst/breakdown. You should not be in the legal profession. Sorry but it's the truth.

she's not looking to do biglaw, iirc
also, this comment is unnecessary and not helpful
i don't think we should be discussing what a poster may or may not have done IRL unless she volunteers that information

Whatever BlueLotus volunteers about her life can only tenuously be called "information," except insofar as she has (in a sense) volunteered the datum that she is fucking nuts.

[jess]

Can a LS remove you for disclosing that you are suicidal? That would discourage others from seeking help. Having this post up could discourage others from seeking help.

Yes, they can and they do. My mental health actually worsened considerably by forcing me to withdraw. And ten months later, bastards didn't let me back in despite overwhelmingly positive evaluations from my treatment providers. I'm at 3.85/top 1% in my class at my new school, so perhaps it was a blessing in disguise, but last year was absolutely my lowest point emotionally speaking.

The following article will shed some light on the sadly too common phenomenon:
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/14/how- ... 45492.html

I thought you had bipolar disorder and threatened people on campus, which then led to you leaving the school, seeking treatment, and emailing them a bunch about getting back in?

[jrass]

I don't want to say OP is lying about the grades, but if they are I would strongly urge them to speak with a counselor as delusions of grandeur are characteristic of a manic episode in bipolar disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions) and the aspiration to clerk is a very lofty aspiration for someone who wanted to dedicate themselves to legal aid. OP, the two times you got in trouble were during manic episodes, and while my knowledge of bipolar disorder is extremely limited, my guess would be that part of being in a manic episode is not realizing you're in a manic episode. I would urge you to speak to a counselor, and to do so with a counselor outside of the school as the school may look for reasons to remove you if they think you're in a manic episode given your recent history.

As far as employment goes given the career outlook of the majority of 2L's at your school, the possible C&F issues and the time off, your best bet is to develop the networking opportunities available to you and form a substantive professional friendship/mentorship with someone who would possibly go to bat for you in terms of getting a job. You're going to need to get someone in a position of power to really like you. Ask your CSO for an alumni list, and try to develop a meaningful connection.

[Manali]

Can a LS remove you for disclosing that you are suicidal? That would discourage others from seeking help. Having this post up could discourage others from seeking help.

Yes, they can and they do. My mental health actually worsened considerably by forcing me to withdraw. And ten months later, bastards didn't let me back in despite overwhelmingly positive evaluations from my treatment providers. I'm at 3.85/top 1% in my class at my new school, so perhaps it was a blessing in disguise, but last year was absolutely my lowest point emotionally speaking.

The following article will shed some light on the sadly too common phenomenon:
http://www.newsweek.com/2014/02/14/how- ... 45492.html

I thought you had bipolar disorder and threatened people on campus, which then led to you leaving the school, seeking treatment, and emailing them a bunch about getting back in?

Well, I was deemed a threat to myself.

[Manali]

I don't want to say OP is lying about the grades, but if they are I would strongly urge them to speak with a counselor as delusions of grandeur are characteristic of a manic episode in bipolar disorder (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandiose_delusions) and the aspiration to clerk is a very lofty aspiration for someone who wanted to dedicate themselves to legal aid. OP, the two times you got in trouble were during manic episodes, and while my knowledge of bipolar disorder is extremely limited, my guess would be that part of being in a manic episode is not realizing you're in a manic episode. I would urge you to speak to a counselor, and to do so with a counselor outside of the school as the school may look for reasons to remove you if they think you're in a manic episode given your recent history.

As far as employment goes given the career outlook of the majority of 2L's at your school, the possible C&F issues and the time off, your best bet is to develop the networking opportunities available to you and form a substantive professional friendship/mentorship with someone who would possibly go to bat for you in terms of getting a job. You're going to need to get someone in a position of power to really like you. Ask your CSO for an alumni list, and try to develop a meaningful connection.

Why the hell would I lie to a bunch of anonymous internet strangers? I'm willing to post screenshots of my grades and the letter from my registrar stating that I am ranked 2nd in the class, if you think my statements are that incredible. I met with Career Services on Friday and the counselor in charge of getting students clerkships explicitly said that I have a legit shot of getting clerkships, ranging from state trial court to even federal.

[cheaptilts]

I don't think you're lying about your grades at all. I do think your position is so unique and peculiar that almost everyone on TLS, including clerks, won't be able to give you a helpful answer with regards to whether to disclose your disability to judges, whether you're competitive for judges, whether you're qualified to work in x district, etc . . . I'm glad you talked to your CSO; hopefully they've steered you towards either "just doing it" (in which case good luck, and you can figure out what and how to disclose or not during your interview prep . . . I wouldn't put the cart before the horse here) and applying or changing your goals.

[Manali]

And to the poster who said that I'm discouraging students with mental illness from seeking help-that was not my intent.

I hope my story is a warning sign about the ever-present stigma and bias against people with mental illness. My recommendation to any student suffering with depression is to NOT speak to other students, administrators, professors, or on-campus therapists about it. You will only be seen as a liability. There are plenty of anonymous hotlines and support groups available at your disposal. Make use of them.

[jrass]

And to the poster who said that I'm discouraging students with mental illness from seeking help-that was not my intent.

I hope my story is a warning sign about the ever-present stigma and bias against people with mental illness. My recommendation to any student suffering with depression is to NOT speak to other students, administrators, professors, or on-campus therapists about it. You will only be seen as a liability. There are plenty of anonymous hotlines and support groups available at your disposal. Make use of them.

I don't think people care too much about depression. Almost a quarter of people will experience a depressive episode, and the overwhelming majority don't contemplate suicide. Depression is a symptom of bipolar, but bipolar is a much more severe illness than depression. It's a shitty situation, no doubt, but it's not as though the profession discriminates against anyone with a mental illness. It discriminates against your mental illness, rightly or wrongly.

[Manali]

And to the poster who said that I'm discouraging students with mental illness from seeking help-that was not my intent.

I hope my story is a warning sign about the ever-present stigma and bias against people with mental illness. My recommendation to any student suffering with depression is to NOT speak to other students, administrators, professors, or on-campus therapists about it. You will only be seen as a liability. There are plenty of anonymous hotlines and support groups available at your disposal. Make use of them.

I don't think people care too much about depression. Almost a quarter of people will experience a depressive episode, and the overwhelming majority don't contemplate suicide. Depression is a symptom of bipolar, but bipolar is a much more severe illness than depression. It's a shitty situation, no doubt, but it's not as though the profession discriminates against anyone with a mental illness. It discriminates against your mental illness, rightly or wrongly.

If depression isn't a big deal, then how come this kid with depression in the article I posted was forced to withdraw from Princeton, evicted from his dorm room, banned from campus, etc. because of a depressive episode? He wasn't bipolar. There is plenty of stigma with unipolar depression. We're taught from a young to pull ourselves "up by the bootstraps" instead of seeking help for a case of the blues. A diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder can prevent you from joining JAG Corps, it's that serious.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I think jrass is right when talking about society more broadly, but I agree that many schools handle depression very badly, probably out of fear of liability for suicide. I think that particular kind of stigma is a higher-ed specific problem, given the weird dynamic between schools and students, rather than a more general thing. (Not that all of society is completely enlightened, but I think schools are just bad at this.)

[Manali]

Do u ever think u are t1% because you've been a 2L like 6 times

Or maybe it's because my LSAT score is 10 points higher than the median student from my school, dumbass. (There's a correlation between LSAT scores and law school performance).

[jrass]

And to the poster who said that I'm discouraging students with mental illness from seeking help-that was not my intent.

I hope my story is a warning sign about the ever-present stigma and bias against people with mental illness. My recommendation to any student suffering with depression is to NOT speak to other students, administrators, professors, or on-campus therapists about it. You will only be seen as a liability. There are plenty of anonymous hotlines and support groups available at your disposal. Make use of them.

I don't think people care too much about depression. Almost a quarter of people will experience a depressive episode, and the overwhelming majority don't contemplate suicide. Depression is a symptom of bipolar, but bipolar is a much more severe illness than depression. It's a shitty situation, no doubt, but it's not as though the profession discriminates against anyone with a mental illness. It discriminates against your mental illness, rightly or wrongly.

If depression isn't a big deal, then how come this kid with depression in the article I posted was forced to withdraw from Princeton, evicted from his dorm room, banned from campus, etc. because of a depressive episode? He wasn't bipolar. There is plenty of stigma with unipolar depression. We're taught from a young to pull ourselves "up by the bootstraps" instead of seeking help for a case of the blues. A diagnosis of Major Depressive Disorder can prevent you from joining JAG Corps, it's that serious.

This is because of tort law, not society or any particular profession. Going a bit off topic but bare with me for a second - if somebody gets raped on a city street late at night it's very unlikely the city gets sued. If the same rape happens on a college campus, it's much likelier the college gets sued.

Private universities have governing documents and generally have fiduciary duties to people other than the students. From a business standpoint, a 90% chance of a student committing suicide in their parents' home is preferable to a 10% chance of that student committing suicide on their campus. Now most people would call a dean who uses such logic an asshole, and I'd be inclined to agree. However, the Princeton story you mention as well as things that have happened to you in private universities are not necessarily indicative of society. Society isn't a privately owned institution with governing docs, and a board of trustees.

Also, the JAG corps is affiliated with the military. You go through training, learn how to use a firearm and may be placed in much more stressful situations than lawyers will see in private practice. No responsible military can send people who may be mentally unhealthy overseas in any capacity. When a story comes out about a soldier who intentionally killed civilians with no provocation, the facts show that the soldier was sick. Most mentally ill people don't do that, sure, but the fact is that no mentally healthy people do. You can't use military lawyers as a proxy to argue something is true about the legal profession as a whole.

[cron1834]

Do u ever think u are t1% because you've been a 2L like 6 times

Or maybe it's because my LSAT score is 10 points higher than the median student from my school, dumbass. (There's a correlation between LSAT scores and law school performance).

It's not that tight of a correlation, though. I bet the correlation between practicing a bunch of law school exams and law school exam performance is better.

[jrass]

Do u ever think u are t1% because you've been a 2L like 6 times

Or maybe it's because my LSAT score is 10 points higher than the median student from my school, dumbass. (There's a correlation between LSAT scores and law school performance).

It's not that tight of a correlation, though. I bet the correlation between practicing a bunch of law school exams and law school exam performance is better.

You're assuming doing the same thing over and over makes you better at it. If I were OP I'd probably have burnt out by 2L #3 at the latest. By the time November hit and my balls froze, I'd have slumped in my chair and said, "What's the point? I'll be back next year."