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Anyone out there have an experience working for (in house or as a captive firm) for one of the large insurnace companies like Allianz, AIG, ACE, Chubb, Zurich, ect? Or one of the large domestic insurnace companies like State Farm, All State, GEICO, ect?

If so, can you tell me about the hiring process, experience needed, the area (legal) in which you work, overall thoughts on the company and work, perks and disadvantages, and whatever else you'd like to share on the thread.

Thanks a lot.

I worked as an intern at a large insurance company for a few months. It was in a "captive firm" that did exclusively insurance defense. Was my least favorite legal internship/experience while in law school. The older attorneys in the group, from what I gathered, had relatively interesting work, decent hours, and decent pay. The young attorneys did mostly low value and high volume car accident type cases. The young attorneys were skilled and professional, but they all came from low-ranked law schools and likely struck out at firms. They all work in cubicles, which to me is very depressing. However, they were often involved early on in depositions and trial work, so if you want to be a litigator, its a decent option if firm work is not in your immediate post-grad future. They hire interns almost exclusively to churn out motion drafting.

The young attorneys seemed like they were all trying to get out. Some of them were actually successful in exiting to regional midlaw firms, but the work was still insurance defense (I am not at all knocking insurance defense, just noting that from what i have seen, young attorneys starting in insurance defense struggle to break free of that area of law)

The in-house corporate attorneys, on the other hand, take home a much better paycheck and enjoy a higher quality workload. I have a friend who interned in that group, and she loved it.

Anonymous User wrote:I worked as an intern at a large insurance company for a few months. It was in a "captive firm" that did exclusively insurance defense. Was my least favorite legal internship/experience while in law school. The older attorneys in the group, from what I gathered, had relatively interesting work, decent hours, and decent pay. The young attorneys did mostly low value and high volume car accident type cases. The young attorneys were skilled and professional, but they all came from low-ranked law schools and likely struck out at firms. They all work in cubicles, which to me is very depressing. However, they were often involved early on in depositions and trial work, so if you want to be a litigator, its a decent option if firm work is not in your immediate post-grad future. They hire interns almost exclusively to churn out motion drafting.

The young attorneys seemed like they were all trying to get out. Some of them were actually successful in exiting to regional midlaw firms, but the work was still insurance defense (I am not at all knocking insurance defense, just noting that from what i have seen, young attorneys starting in insurance defense struggle to break free of that area of law)

The in-house corporate attorneys, on the other hand, take home a much better paycheck and enjoy a higher quality workload. I have a friend who interned in that group, and she loved it.

Thanks for the info. I appreciate it.

I also have experience in the "in house" side and I thought it was great and loved it. However, the amount of in court and actual trial work for someone who lands those positions isn't great. I know someone who works in a "captive" firm of a property and casualty insurance company and he gets a ton of trial work and experience but the hours are bad and the pay isn't spectacular. But I can see how it is very beneficial to use the experience gained at the captive firm and use it later in your career.

I don't work for an insurance company or captive firm, but I do insurance defense work at a 170+ attorney firm. Many of those company's you listed are my clients. I work a lot with their in-house counsel and captive firms so I have a pretty good idea of their work. The requirements are usually pretty typical for in-house jobs, 2+ years of experience. I have found, however, that many of the firms waive that requirement depending on the candidates in front of them. I routinely deal with in-house counsel with 6-18 months of experience. For the captive firm jobs, you see the experience requirements more closely enforced. Also, the in-house counsel do not go to court as much. They typically farm that out and advise/manage on cases rather than get involved in heavy litigation. The captive firm counsel are like any other insurance defense firm, they are in court all the time. Constantly deposing, constantly going to trial, constantly negotiating. It's a good way to get experience in court/depos quickly. Within my firm, the business litigation/commercial litigation/municipality litigation attorneys that started with me have never done a trial and are just now doing depos and simple court appearances on their own. The insurance defense attorneys started handling depos within 3-5 months and started shadowing attorneys in court around the same time. Afterward, they got their case load.

You attorneys lots of times are faced with a dilemma in insurance defense. The work is not "sexy" like IP or Commercial litigation. But there are lots of jobs in it. So, often, you'll see young attorneys start there are try and break free after a few years for prestige and higher pay. That being said, the pay is good (100k plus starting at most captive and non-captive firms in the SoCal are). Bonuses are typically based on hours billed i.e. $50.00 for every hour billed over 190 or 200 in a month (sometimes more sometimes less).

In captive firms and non-captive firms, you still bill. Billing is an art form. Get good at it. Your quality of life depends on it. If you do not bill well, you will work twice as hard as the next guy. If you can bill well, quality of life in the insurance defense industry is very good.

Mr. Jones wrote:I don't work for an insurance company or captive firm, but I do insurance defense work at a 170+ attorney firm. Many of those company's you listed are my clients. I work a lot with their in-house counsel and captive firms so I have a pretty good idea of their work. The requirements are usually pretty typical for in-house jobs, 2+ years of experience. I have found, however, that many of the firms waive that requirement depending on the candidates in front of them. I routinely deal with in-house counsel with 6-18 months of experience. For the captive firm jobs, you see the experience requirements more closely enforced. Also, the in-house counsel do not go to court as much. They typically farm that out and advise/manage on cases rather than get involved in heavy litigation. The captive firm counsel are like any other insurance defense firm, they are in court all the time. Constantly deposing, constantly going to trial, constantly negotiating. It's a good way to get experience in court/depos quickly. Within my firm, the business litigation/commercial litigation/municipality litigation attorneys that started with me have never done a trial and are just now doing depos and simple court appearances on their own. The insurance defense attorneys started handling depos within 3-5 months and started shadowing attorneys in court around the same time. Afterward, they got their case load.

You attorneys lots of times are faced with a dilemma in insurance defense. The work is not "sexy" like IP or Commercial litigation. But there are lots of jobs in it. So, often, you'll see young attorneys start there are try and break free after a few years for prestige and higher pay. That being said, the pay is good (100k plus starting at most captive and non-captive firms in the SoCal are). Bonuses are typically based on hours billed i.e. $50.00 for every hour billed over 190 or 200 in a month (sometimes more sometimes less).

In captive firms and non-captive firms, you still bill. Billing is an art form. Get good at it. Your quality of life depends on it. If you do not bill well, you will work twice as hard as the next guy. If you can bill well, quality of life in the insurance defense industry is very good.

Thank you very much for the post.

Interested in this as well. But on the coverage, not insurance defense side. Anyone here work as claims counsel?

majic1984 wrote:Interested in this as well. But on the coverage, not insurance defense side. Anyone here work as claims counsel?

I am familiar with in house counsel for the companies, field counsel for some insurance companies, private insurance coverage firms, and private insurance defense firms, but I'm not familiar with claims counsel.
What can you tell me about it? What kind of insurance are you interested in?

Anyone work in the following insurance areas?

Excess Liability / Excess Casualty

Kidnap & Extorition

Private Risk Services

Surplus Lines

Crop Insurance

Reinsurance

Could a mod please fix the title? It's driving me nuts.

zot1 wrote:Could a mod please fix the title? It's driving me nuts.

What is wrong with the title and what do you want the mod to change it to?

Mr. Jones wrote:I don't work for an insurance company or captive firm, but I do insurance defense work at a 170+ attorney firm. Many of those company's you listed are my clients. I work a lot with their in-house counsel and captive firms so I have a pretty good idea of their work. The requirements are usually pretty typical for in-house jobs, 2+ years of experience. I have found, however, that many of the firms waive that requirement depending on the candidates in front of them. I routinely deal with in-house counsel with 6-18 months of experience. For the captive firm jobs, you see the experience requirements more closely enforced. Also, the in-house counsel do not go to court as much. They typically farm that out and advise/manage on cases rather than get involved in heavy litigation. The captive firm counsel are like any other insurance defense firm, they are in court all the time. Constantly deposing, constantly going to trial, constantly negotiating. It's a good way to get experience in court/depos quickly. Within my firm, the business litigation/commercial litigation/municipality litigation attorneys that started with me have never done a trial and are just now doing depos and simple court appearances on their own. The insurance defense attorneys started handling depos within 3-5 months and started shadowing attorneys in court around the same time. Afterward, they got their case load.

You attorneys lots of times are faced with a dilemma in insurance defense. The work is not "sexy" like IP or Commercial litigation. But there are lots of jobs in it. So, often, you'll see young attorneys start there are try and break free after a few years for prestige and higher pay. That being said, the pay is good (100k plus starting at most captive and non-captive firms in the SoCal are). Bonuses are typically based on hours billed i.e. $50.00 for every hour billed over 190 or 200 in a month (sometimes more sometimes less).

In captive firms and non-captive firms, you still bill. Billing is an art form. Get good at it. Your quality of life depends on it. If you do not bill well, you will work twice as hard as the next guy. If you can bill well, quality of life in the insurance defense industry is very good.

Thanks for the post on insurance defense work. A lot of people, recently in fact, have been bashing on insurance defense work, so I think this a is fair and realistic description of the work.

Honestly, I know a lot of people who do insurance defense and have made great careers out of it and they enjoy the work. It isn't for everyone I guess. Insurance defense lawyers must like litigation, going to trial, negotiating, deposing, and writing. Certainly not for the transactional leaning side.

As a general matter, pay at insurance defense firms is lower, sometimes much more so, than firms of comparable size because insurance defense rate are far lower than big law rates. I work at 50 lawyer shop and partners routinely charge 250 per hour.

What does a career trajectory look like for someone who starts their legal career with an insurance company? I've heard that the path to an AVP role is pretty standard and takes about five years. Is this accurate?