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Didn't see a thread about this on here.

I got an interview offer for a rural legal aid org on a Native American reservation, which piqued my interest about opportunities in this market. How important are "ties"? Is it an insular market? I am particularly interested in PD, legal aid, and small firms doing immigration or family law. Is familiarity/taking coursework on Native American law a must for working in this market, since it is on the bar?

If you're talking about like Gallup or Farmington, then I think having some background in Indian law is pretty much a must, but I doubt if firms in ABQ and Santa Fe are going to care much. I think that ties to the area are going to be of critical importance.

My information is a bit out of date (I was applying for SA positions in 2010), but I direct-mailed about 8 firms in the state and didn't get a single screener. My only tie to the state was having lived there for about 2 years before law school. I had pretty good grades at a top-25 school and would probably have been pretty competitive with better ties. From what I can tell, to get into the market you pretty much need to either have grown up in New Mexico or have gone to UNM.

Anonymous User wrote:If you're talking about like Gallup or Farmington, then I think having some background in Indian law is pretty much a must, but I doubt if firms in ABQ and Santa Fe are going to care much. I think that ties to the area are going to be of critical importance.

My information is a bit out of date (I was applying for SA positions in 2010), but I direct-mailed about 8 firms in the state and didn't get a single screener. My only tie to the state was having lived there for about 2 years before law school. I had pretty good grades at a top-25 school and would probably have been pretty competitive with better ties. From what I can tell, to get into the market you pretty much need to either have grown up in New Mexico or have gone to UNM.

Wow, if it's that insular, I am shocked that I even got an interview at that Native American legal aid org. I have never stepped foot inside NM, but the idea of living there seems appealing...

There just aren't a lot of people who want to live on the reservation in NM doing legal aid. I think the hiring process for that is going to be very very different than for firms in SF or ABQ. You would at least need to learn some Indian law (the wills/trusts stuff can be very different).

A. Nony Mouse wrote:There just aren't a lot of people who want to live on the reservation in NM doing legal aid. I think the hiring process for that is going to be very very different than for firms in SF or ABQ. You would at least need to learn some Indian law (the wills/trusts stuff can be very different).

Yeah, my school doesn't really place into the states that include Native American law on their bar exam. No classes or clinics on Native American law either. So my only option for learning that area of law is doing an Independent Study.

I practice in TX in a mid size city bordering a smaller NM city. I can't speak to alb/santa fe market, but generally what I have found is that employers really want to see a meaningful tie to the area. The reason is simple, you may like it here for a few years, but if you don't have family here or any real meaningful tie, you will leave. That's the problem with most mid to small cities. They cannot keep good talent because there is nothing to do. It's a great place to be and live and raise a family, but employers figure that newly minted attorneys from bigger cities will eventually leave as soon as they get a chance, and it does happen.

Additionally, you're also competing with some judge or partner's nephew, someones friend daughter or son, etc. The cronyism and nepotism runs rampant in these parts, especially in government jobs.

What happened with the Supreme Court of India?

ClubberLang wrote:What happened with the Supreme Court of India?

That's a non-starter unless I get funding from my school or some outside source. But it seems like the opportunity of a lifetime.

The New Mexico legal market is small and, like the state, somewhat impoverished. There is work here even for new law grads and we have a new reciprocity rule for the bar exam. But be forewarned. There is no real Big Law here nor anything resembling Big Law salaries. A new attorney will likely make about $50,000, fairly easy to do if you come out of UNM having paid in-state tuition. Not so easy if you owe $200,000 to Sallie Mae. Outside of Santa Fe and (I suppose) Taos, the cost of living is pretty reasonable. Speaking decent Spanish helps but your first job might be in some very isolated, possibly not so scenic part of the state.

I've spent my career here and I love it but I was never really in debt. If I were looking to come to the Desert Southwest now-a-days right out of law school, I'd look hard at Arizona first.

Anonymous User wrote:I practice in TX in a mid size city bordering a smaller NM city. I can't speak to alb/santa fe market, but generally what I have found is that employers really want to see a meaningful tie to the area. The reason is simple, you may like it here for a few years, but if you don't have family here or any real meaningful tie, you will leave. That's the problem with most mid to small cities. They cannot keep good talent because there is nothing to do. It's a great place to be and live and raise a family, but employers figure that newly minted attorneys from bigger cities will eventually leave as soon as they get a chance, and it does happen.

Additionally, you're also competing with some judge or partner's nephew, someones friend daughter or son, etc. The cronyism and nepotism runs rampant in these parts, especially in government jobs.

Does that cronyism apply to public defender offices in NM?

Not in my experience. But my earlier comments about pay and location DO apply.

EDIT: One observation: The classified ads in the New Mexico Bar Bulletin are for real, especially if you want a state government job.

The fed jobs seem to be a healthy mix of NM natives and people who had never set foot in the state before their interview. I fall into the latter category, and I only faced one question during my interview about whether I would want to stay in NM for more than a brief period of time.

I moved to Albuquerque for a federal job.

I was asked about the reasons I was interested in New Mexico during the interview. My answer was well-researched: cost of living, less crowdedness, less traffic, good for outdoor sports/activities, small-town feel with city advantages, artsy and upcoming.

I didn't have actual ties nor had I ever been in the state other than driving through once several years before. I think my answer was convincing enough that I had given this move a lot of thought because I got an offer.

I don't think the government jobs care too much. Most postings I see advertise that people with good standing in other state bars are welcome to apply. And during the swearing in for this year's class, more than a handful of people mentioned being out of state.

Good luck!

And if you like a diverse and vibrant environment, New Mexico is an AMAZING place to live! Good luck with whatever you do!

Manali wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:I practice in TX in a mid size city bordering a smaller NM city. I can't speak to alb/santa fe market, but generally what I have found is that employers really want to see a meaningful tie to the area. The reason is simple, you may like it here for a few years, but if you don't have family here or any real meaningful tie, you will leave. That's the problem with most mid to small cities. They cannot keep good talent because there is nothing to do. It's a great place to be and live and raise a family, but employers figure that newly minted attorneys from bigger cities will eventually leave as soon as they get a chance, and it does happen.

Additionally, you're also competing with some judge or partner's nephew, someones friend daughter or son, etc. The cronyism and nepotism runs rampant in these parts, especially in government jobs.

Does that cronyism apply to public defender offices in NM?

Public defenders in ABQ or Santa Fe require either having been born in the town AND have family there AND speak with the appropriate accent or have gone to UNM law. If you don't go to UNM law, it will be extremely difficult to catch on in the ABQ-Santa Fe passage. I struck out despite being from ABQ, having my entire family there, and being top 10% at a top 25 school.

Southern NM is totally different. Total freak shows who can't even spell New Mexico get hired every day.

Manali wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:If you're talking about like Gallup or Farmington, then I think having some background in Indian law is pretty much a must, but I doubt if firms in ABQ and Santa Fe are going to care much. I think that ties to the area are going to be of critical importance.

My information is a bit out of date (I was applying for SA positions in 2010), but I direct-mailed about 8 firms in the state and didn't get a single screener. My only tie to the state was having lived there for about 2 years before law school. I had pretty good grades at a top-25 school and would probably have been pretty competitive with better ties. From what I can tell, to get into the market you pretty much need to either have grown up in New Mexico or have gone to UNM.

Wow, if it's that insular, I am shocked that I even got an interview at that Native American legal aid org. I have never stepped foot inside NM, but the idea of living there seems appealing...

Very few people with a bar card are willing to move to Farmington/Gallup/Roswell/T or C. Completely different dynamic than anywhere else in the country I've seen. No ties, no experience in native law, no problem.

andythefir wrote:

Manali wrote:

Anonymous User wrote:If you're talking about like Gallup or Farmington, then I think having some background in Indian law is pretty much a must, but I doubt if firms in ABQ and Santa Fe are going to care much. I think that ties to the area are going to be of critical importance.

My information is a bit out of date (I was applying for SA positions in 2010), but I direct-mailed about 8 firms in the state and didn't get a single screener. My only tie to the state was having lived there for about 2 years before law school. I had pretty good grades at a top-25 school and would probably have been pretty competitive with better ties. From what I can tell, to get into the market you pretty much need to either have grown up in New Mexico or have gone to UNM.

Wow, if it's that insular, I am shocked that I even got an interview at that Native American legal aid org. I have never stepped foot inside NM, but the idea of living there seems appealing...

Very few people with a bar card are willing to move to Farmington/Gallup/Roswell/T or C. Completely different dynamic than anywhere else in the country I've seen. No ties, no experience in native law, no problem.

Having lived in Gallup, there is a reason for this.

The only thing to do in that town was to go to Wal Mart, and the Wal Mart parking lot was routinely full of people who were so drunk that they would just shamble aimlessly around like zombies on Walking Dead.

When I lived there it was illegal to buy booze on Sundays (not sure if this is still the case) and dudes would just line up to buy wiper fluid and mouthwash instead.

If you're willing to live there, Godspeed.

That's what I meant when I said that your first legal job in New Mexico might be in someplace that's isolated and not scenic. New Mexico is HUGE and there is a bewildering variety of cultures and countryside. That said, though, if you do take a state job in, say, Hobbs (in the oil patch and up against the Texas Panhandle) and stick it out for a couple of years, there's a sort of unwritten understanding that you will be competitive with the natives for your next state legal job in Albuquerque. It's sort of a "pay your dues" thing. Not universal, of course, but the notion DOES exist.

In my case, I rather liked living in Eastern New Mexico but it isn't to everyone's taste.