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Background:
I have an offer from a Big4 in the group that I want (ITS/TP/M&A) in a great market (NorCal/SoCal). However, the pay is low (75-85). I was also accepted at GTown/NYU LLM and I'm unsure whether I should take Big4 or roll the dice at an LLM in hopes of big law. (I didn't slot into big law in law school because my law school is: T2, in a small market, and I am finishing around 25%). I know the general rule is that if I wasn't big law before LLM, I probably wouldn't be big law solely because of the program.

Questions:
1. Should I take the Big4 or LLM? Are there are other factors you need to know before you offer advice? If so, what factors?
2. What are Big4 offering LLMs from GTown/NYU LLM in terms of salary?
3. If I make top 25% at LLM can I still slot into Big Law?
4. Any other opinions/questions/insight?

Thank you in advance, I appreciate your perspective.

Is it a Tax LLM?

Take the job

sesto elemento wrote:Is it a Tax LLM?

It has to be.

Yes, Tax LLM.

PandDAlone wrote:Background:
I have an offer from a Big4 in the group that I want (ITS/TP/M&A) in a great market (NorCal/SoCal). However, the pay is low (75-85). I was also accepted at GTown/NYU LLM and I'm unsure whether I should take Big4 or roll the dice at an LLM in hopes of big law. (I didn't slot into big law in law school because my law school is: T2, in a small market, and I am finishing around 25%). I know the general rule is that if I wasn't big law before LLM, I probably wouldn't be big law solely because of the program.

Questions:
1. Should I take the Big4 or LLM? Are there are other factors you need to know before you offer advice? If so, what factors?
2. What are Big4 offering LLMs from GTown/NYU LLM in terms of salary?
3. If I make top 25% at LLM can I still slot into Big Law?
4. Any other opinions/questions/insight?

Thank you in advance, I appreciate your perspective.

Take the Job. You will be offered the same money with the LLM if you don't get biglaw. People with T2 backgrounds usually don't get biglaw from an LLM unless they had the grades for biglaw right out of law school. Outside chance of biglaw if you absolutely kill it in the LLM program, but if your law school grades weren't top 5%, odds are your LLM grades won't be either.

nealric is correct- only posting to add that the vast majority of the Biglaw jobs available from NYU and GTown will be on the East Coast. If possible, take a look at the cities where jobs were available at last year's Taxation Interview Program.

Thank you for your opinions, I appreciate your insight on my circumstances.

My initial thought after receiving the offer was to accept it and turn down the LLM . After speaking with someone at NYU now, he expressed the same views echoed on this board: accept the position, I won't get big law unless top of class/already had big law, unsure whether salary at Big4 will change much pre/post LLM, etc.

However, I posted this question because all of my tax professors are saying: go LLM, Big4 salary is too low, you have a shot at either big law or Big4 Washington National Tax. I understand that they are in academia and they likely lean toward more school.

Although I'm only in at around 25% of my law school, I have taken/currently taking 6 tax courses (A's in 3; 3 in progress) and I have an accounting background. I agree that if I wasn't 5% before LLM it would be hard to be 5% in LLM.

Question: Does my experience with tax courses shift the odds against taking Big4 outright and add some consideration toward taking LLM?

Again, thank you for taking the time to offer me your perspective.

PandDAlone wrote:Thank you for your opinions, I appreciate your insight on my circumstances.

My initial thought after receiving the offer was to accept it and turn down the LLM . After speaking with someone at NYU now, he expressed the same views echoed on this board: accept the position, I won't get big law unless top of class/already had big law, unsure whether salary at Big4 will change much pre/post LLM, etc.

However, I posted this question because all of my tax professors are saying: go LLM, Big4 salary is too low, you have a shot at either big law or Big4 Washington National Tax. I understand that they are in academia and they likely lean toward more school.

Although I'm only in at around 25% of my law school, I have taken/currently taking 6 tax courses (A's in 3; 3 in progress) and I have an accounting background. I agree that if I wasn't 5% before LLM it would be hard to be 5% in LLM.

Question: Does my experience with tax courses shift the odds against taking Big4 outright and add some consideration toward taking LLM?

Again, thank you for taking the time to offer me your perspective.

I wouldn't put too much stock in non-adjunct professors in this realm. They are pretty far removed from the entry level private sector hiring criteria. It's true you could hypothetically get Biglaw or Washington national tax, but it's a big risk for a lot of dough. I would also say that Washington national tax offices have downsides as well. My understanding is you end up hyper specialized, which can make lateral moves difficult. They also don't have a ton of openings.

Getting As in tax speaks well, but keep in mind that most of the people in Tax LLMs are there because they are good in tax and got good grades in tax classes.

Have you thought about doing both: take the Big4 and switch to part-time online LLM program (NYU has this) for tax?

Not OP, but does anyone know about Big 4's reimbursement policy for part-time LLM? I heard sth like they pay 50% of tuition plus books up front and then reimburse the other 50% of tuition upon completion with a B or better. I guess it depends on firms/practice groups, but any insights would be greatly appreciated. FYI, I am interested in NYU part-time LLM only. Thanks!

take the job. most biglaw jobs for both llms are east coast. its actually pretty easy to lateral from big 4 to big law these days. big 4 partner is easier to make than law, and significantly easier as a lawyer. big 4 partner pay is roughly equal to biglaw partner pay. big 4 also is pretty lax about facetime from the lawyers i know in big 4.

JohannDeMann wrote:big 4 partner is easier to make than law, and significantly easier as a lawyer. big 4 partner pay is roughly equal to biglaw partner pay.

not sure about these points. from what i have seen big4 tax makes very few partners (lots and lots of nonequity directors). I also think big4 partners make around 50-60% what a biglaw partner does. That being said, don't expect to make partner anywhere.

I'd take the job. I've heard that Big4 may possibly pay for an LLM down the road too, but I can't verify this.

Definitely not easy to lateral from big4 to biglaw at least for tax

dabigchina wrote:

JohannDeMann wrote:big 4 partner is easier to make than law, and significantly easier as a lawyer. big 4 partner pay is roughly equal to biglaw partner pay.

not sure about these points. from what i have seen big4 tax makes very few partners (lots and lots of nonequity directors). I also think big4 partners make around 50-60% what a biglaw partner does. That being said, don't expect to make partner anywhere.

"The typical salary for a PwC Partner ranges from $140,172-$721,868, with an average salary of $436,097. Salaries estimates based on 4 salary submitted anonymously to Glassdoor by PwC Partner employees."

How much does this non-equity director earns? 100k?

dabigchina wrote:

JohannDeMann wrote:big 4 partner is easier to make than law, and significantly easier as a lawyer. big 4 partner pay is roughly equal to biglaw partner pay.

not sure about these points. from what i have seen big4 tax makes very few partners (lots and lots of nonequity directors). I also think big4 partners make around 50-60% what a biglaw partner does. That being said, don't expect to make partner anywhere.

My understanding is that big4 partner is indeed harder to make, especially if you start from the bottom rungs. There are more rungs to climb and the ratio of newbies to partners is a lot more skewed than biglaw with a longer road to partner.

However, at least around here, I don't think the claim that big4 tax partners make 50-60% of a biglaw partner is necessarily accurate. I've spoken to big4 partners who left biglaw because big4 was offering more. Like biglaw, not all big4 partners are created equal- so that may have a lot to do with it.

...

I want to thank all of you for your perspectives and opinions. I appreciate you taking the time to consider my circumstance. I have yet to make a final decision, but I will keep this thread posted on my status. Again, thank you and I hope you have a nice holiday season.

If you haven't done so already, just wanted to check in and encourage you to take the big4 job.

Good luck with the decision though.

I'm gonna go against everyone else here and say go get the LLM.

I think theres a not-insignificant chance (maybe 30%) of getting big law straight from the LLM as long as you actively network and apply to any/all tax associate openings. If it doesnt pan out, I think your chances of lateraling from big 4 to mid law after 1 year increase (and then big law after another year or 2) with an LLM.

The chances of doing the lateraling above ^ with your current degree are slim - but the LLM makes it a real probability(maybe 50/50).

The post is months old, but I'd just like to add that with a tax LLM, even if all you get is big4, starting salaries are $115,000 (with $5,000 sign on bonus). This is for big4 NYC M&A or International Tax. I know this from first hand information.