California C&F Concern Forum

[Anonymous User]

In college, I had 3 criminal incidents relating to alcohol: 2 public intoxication arrests and a citation for minor in possession of alcohol.

I addressed these in college via on-campus drug counseling groups and I even disclosed my past problem with alcohol on my law school applications, explicitly stating that I had overcome a bout with alcoholism.

I disclosed all of this on my C&F application and it was red-flagged. I received a letter asking me to detail more about the incidents as well as my "current relationship with drugs and alcohol."

Shortly after receiving that letter, I was arrested for cocaine possession. However, the substance ended up testing negative for cocaine and all charges were dropped.

I consulted with a C&F attorney and I disclosed the arrest. I made it clear that I have not and do not use cocaine and that this was a one-off incident. I have also met regularly with a therapist who was written a letter on my behalf stating that he does not believe I have a drug problem, but that we continue to work on understanding my behavior via therapy. In addition, I have voluntarily submitted to random drug testing as a way to show the bar that I am not using drugs of any form.

My concern is my delayed admission to the bar and losing my biglaw job. I am currently in another state and I will be taking that state's bar exam in February, but I passed the CA bar and obviously being admitted to CA would avoid some concern from my firm's POV.

Does anyone have any experience with a problem like this? Should I expect a long delay?

[Anonymous User]

I had a hearing before the CA state bar regarding C&F. And I got that same letter that you got. Without going into detail, my criminal record and addition history is substantially worse than yours. Hiring a C&F attorney is a good move-mine helped me spin it at my hearing, mostly adding a positive spin on things. Keep in mind that overcoming addition and maintaining sobriety over a long period of time shows strong character.

[Anonymous User]

I had a hearing before the CA state bar regarding C&F. And I got that same letter that you got. Without going into detail, my criminal record and addition history is substantially worse than yours. Hiring a C&F attorney is a good move-mine helped me spin it at my hearing, mostly adding a positive spin on things. Keep in mind that overcoming addition and maintaining sobriety over a long period of time shows strong character.

Was your history far removed from your hearing? I am concerned because my arrest occurred in August. While it is the truth, they may not believe it was a one-off incident and infer I was using drugs.

Were you delayed admission to the bar?

[Anonymous User]

I had a hearing before the CA state bar regarding C&F. And I got that same letter that you got. Without going into detail, my criminal record and addition history is substantially worse than yours. Hiring a C&F attorney is a good move-mine helped me spin it at my hearing, mostly adding a positive spin on things. Keep in mind that overcoming addition and maintaining sobriety over a long period of time shows strong character.

Was your history far removed from your hearing? I am concerned because my arrest occurred in August. While it is the truth, they may not believe it was a one-off incident and infer I was using drugs.

Were you delayed admission to the bar?

It was, by several years. But without getting into details, I am a convicted felon. You are not. I did my C&F application as far in advance as possible of taking the bar. It has been a while, so can't remember all the timing details, but I got my "all clear" about 2 months after bar results came out. I was straightforward with my firm about what was going on, and was also straightforward about my history during OCI. Probably resulted in less offers, but I knew it would come up anyways, and I needed to make sure I was going to a place where I could be open and honest.

[Anonymous User]

Thank you for your reply.

Does anyone have any experience with something more similar to my scenario?

[Anonymous User]

I don't want to freak you out, but for your own sake it would be VERY bad judgment to listen to anyone who discounts the possible consequences of being flagged by the California bar. Anyone who has not been flagged or who has gone through the moral character process in another state has absolutely nothing to contribute to this conversation. That's about all I'm comfortable saying.

Edited because I don't want to come off like I'm giving advice here. Keep your attorney and stay in contact with him or her along every step of the way.

[Anonymous User]

I don't want to freak you out, but for your own sake it would be VERY bad judgment to listen to anyone who discounts the possible consequences of being flagged by the California bar. Anyone who has not been flagged or who has gone through the moral character process in another state has absolutely nothing to contribute to this conversation. That's about all I'm comfortable saying.

Edited because I don't want to come off like I'm giving advice here. Keep your attorney and stay in contact with him or her along every step of the way.

Thank you for this. I wasn't discounting the consequences and I don't believe the poster above me necessarily was either. But I will keep this in mind.

[Anonymous User]

Poster above. Yes, definitely not discounting the seriousness of dealing with this right and having an attorney.

[A. Nony Mouse]

I don't want to freak you out, but for your own sake it would be VERY bad judgment to listen to anyone who discounts the possible consequences of being flagged by the California bar. Anyone who has not been flagged or who has gone through the moral character process in another state has absolutely nothing to contribute to this conversation. That's about all I'm comfortable saying.

It's worth noting that the only poster besides you to respond said they had a C+F hearing in CA.

[Anonymous User]

I think the poster was only intending to say "I had a significantly worse record and I still got in" and to that extent was, maybe unintentionally, discounting the severity of my situation.

I want to reiterate that I have and will continue to consult with an attorney.

I was just looking for anecdotal experience.

[Anonymous User]

I disagree with the other posters here. I have a very similar history to yours, and incidentally have been asking about it on TLS recently. (see http://www.top-law-schools.com/forums/v ... 2#p8973172). My sense in talking about the lawyers is that it doesn't really matter what the finding is. That is, even though you weren't doing blo the committee won't give two ****s because they will assume that it is a continuation of your substance abuse problems. I was told as much by a swanky C&F lawyer who said that it did not matter if I got off my charge (and even if the charge was unfounded, both of which were true in my) because they are going to be looking at the arresting officer reports that you sent them, and the psychologists on the committee are going to notice a 'trend.' A recent incident, regardless of whether you are actually guilty, is the absolute worse thing you can do for yourself. This is because the whole program and the committee members adhere to the 'rehab-industrial' complex, which means that problem people like you have to spend at least two years in monitored sobriety before they have been 'rehabilitated' to show that they have the character necessary for the bar. This is a protectionist measure that has accelerated with the increasing difficulty of the legal employment market. Again, CA is the absolute worse state for this to have happened to you in.

Absolutely you will take longer to process. As a preliminary matter, I heard stories where people were still waiting for determination after 1.5 years. My guess (and this is from talking to five different C&F attorneys in the state) is one of two possible outcomes. First, they might grant an abeyance. This means that the committee says they will grant you a license, but only after X months (probably 1 to 1.5 years) of participation in a monitored program (like the one it sound like you have enrolled in). Probably more likely, given the recency of your arrest, they will deny your C&F. Then, your score stays valid for 5 years so you can reapply in CA after two years and maybe use the same score. But if you get denied in the CA bar you are required to report that denial on the questionnaires for other state bars, and NO STATE BAR will admit someone who has been denied. Recall that this
denial is valid for two years FROM WHEN IT IS ISSUED.

Getting a lawyer right now is a necessity for you, otherwise you are very likely to get a rejection that will tarnish your ability to practice in any state for years.

[Anonymous User]

I have an attorney now, but does anyone else have input on this?

Might I be better served withdrawing from CA as I am practicing in NY anyway for now?

[Anonymous User]

"Don't discount the severity" guy here-- I didn't mean to imply that OP discounts the severity or the first response isn't credible. I just wanted to put that out there because these threads inevitably devolve into posters from out of state advising to just disclose and everything will be chill.

OP-- is NY a realistic option for you? That honestly doesn't sound like a terrible idea if it's not going to be an issue with the firm.

[Anonymous User]

OP here.

The result was a 1.5 year abeyance. I got this result back in March/April and I have been in the monitored sobriety program since then. This testing includes alcohol testing.

I have always held that I do not and have never heard a substance abuse problem. To support this - I have a letter from a therapist I saw once-twice a week for roughly 5 months attesting to his belief that I do not have a substance problem. To help prove this, I did random testing with him from November until I began this program through the bar. I also will have an evaluation for substance abuse through the NY bar shortly.

Does anyone know if this will be given any weight in potentially reducing the term of my abeyance?

[Anonymous User]

Don't know but would underscore to any persons who have substance issues that length of sobriety and candor are vital. I had several arrests, including a DUI, and a multi-year addiction to opiod painkillers. Was sober from several weeks before law school through my CA moral character application and my application was processed in nine months.

[Anonymous User]

Don't know but would underscore to any persons who have substance issues that length of sobriety and candor are vital. I had several arrests, including a DUI, and a multi-year addiction to opiod painkillers. Was sober from several weeks before law school through my CA moral character application and my application was processed in nine months.

Did you have demonstrable sobriety e.g. testing?

[tyroneslothrop1]

No I just told them that. Happened to be true.